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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: A former mormon needs some advice Post Reply Post New Topic
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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2005 at 3:09am

I understand your point that they need evidence for their claim. I asked that missionary "how do you mean nearest to God? do you mean in doing His will?" and he replied "yes" and maybe they actually do use that bible verse as a refference to their claim of that planet that is nearest to God, but their claim reminded me of that verse, and i started a new topic about it after i wrote this post you are asking me about. If you want to read it, it is called "The will of God in the bible and in islam" it is in this forum we are on now. But to go deeper into your questions, ""how come heaven implies another planet?" With this implication, I think, one is restricting all other possiblities. Isn't it?" with this implication one restricts all other possibilities, true, but this is not my implication, and I do not know if it is the mormon implication, maybe i will have the chance to ask them in the future.

" it is one thing to go and do physical search for such possiblities in the universe through Quranic references but it is totally a different thing to make it a part of a belief." Well thats the thing with beliefs, one can believe his grand father had 9 toes, it does not mean it is actually true. The word belief in it self i think is not the right word when we talk about confirmed truths, but i understand what you are trying to say. most "believe" but they do not have certainty, because they can not confirm most of their claims with as you call it "evidential science".

"Simply because such beliefs based on extrapolational explanations from Quran are from no where except from one's own intellect. Hence, till the time they don't prove themselves from the evidential science, they are meaningless." Evidential science, implies something happening in the physical world and being observed, could this mean that if someone warns against something that is not present in the physical world yet, could this be disregarded as being meaningless? untill it actually happens?

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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2005 at 6:50am

"..........could this mean that if someone warns against something that is not present in the physical world yet, could this be disregarded as being meaningless? untill it actually happens? "

First of all, I don't think, the presence of some form of life on another planet, comes in the category of warning to people on earth. Hence, it is again, a little of the topic.

Secondly, specifically, true that fore warn may not be evidential if it is of spiritual nature, but for that, one don't have to do extrapolations from Quran since we have been clearly shown in it that we must avoid evil and practice good. No need to go for hidden meanings of it. However, if the warning is of physical nature, like sunami, earth quake or tornado etc, then science is the only way through which this warning can be understood. Isn't it?

 

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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2005 at 11:03am
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"..........could this mean that if someone warns against something that is not present in the physical world yet, could this be disregarded as being meaningless? untill it actually happens? "

First of all, I don't think, the presence of some form of life on another planet, comes in the category of warning to people on earth. Hence, it is again, a little of the topic. I know it is off topic, and i know you are a bit impatient with me now, maybe because of something i wrote in the past which was not right and maybe what i wrote even offended you, i still wish to tell you and maybe even remind you that i do ask His forgiveness and wish for His mercy, and i ask you, whatever i wrote which might have offended you or was wrong, overlook it, may Allah overlook your shortcommings, and i do not just say this because it is a good way to make someone listen but rather because i wish for you the same as i wish for my ownself, and that is Allah's total forgiveness and Mercy. Dear brother, how about these verses in the koran though,  53:48 And That it is He Who gave wealth and satisfied(the people); 53:49 And That He is the Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star); 53:50 And that it is He Who destroyed the (powerful) ancient 'Ad (people),53:51 And the Thamud so they did not remain. Brother, Allah here connects wealth and satisfaction and the destruction of people to Him being the Cherisher, Lord (rabb) of the star Sirius. And we both have to agree that Allah does everything with wisdom and for a certain purpose, how Sirius is connected to wealth and satisfaction and the destruction of peoples i do not know, i have an idea about it and i wrote it in the long post above where i asked you to take time to read it, it's not a BIG DEAL if you do not read it, because now this comes to my mind, Allah tells us in the koran, that they did not kill Jesus, and that He took Jesus up to Himself, so Jesus did not die, it means he still has his physical body, because when someone dies he is taken out of his physical body, ah maybe this is why you were getting impatient with this topic about another physical planet, it would give the possibilty of Jesus being on a physical planet in a physical body...i see why you are asking me about it now, a planet which is nearest to God in respect of His will, i guess it is not important for us to know if he is on a planet somewhere or not, but to some it raises the question is this claim true or not? Allah says in the koran that He is the Inherittor, and that His "fit" righteous slaves will inherit the earth, if we look at what the believers said when they conquered Mecca "all praise to Him who defeated the confideracy by Himself" while they fought against them themselves with their own hands, from this we can also say that Himself in the verse from the koran means Himself as where His will is done, Allah has taken Jesus up to Himself. This could mean that there is actually a planet which is nearest to God in respect of His will. If we talk about scientific fact, what scientific fact is there for the claim in the koran and bible of Jesus being taken up? See mormons believe in prophets, the only question that counts for me is do their prophets believe in all the prophets including Muhammed. In the koran it says that muhammed is khaatim annubuwa, translated as seal of prophethood. and that those who devide between Allah and His prophets, saying they believe in one and reject the other, are the real kuffar(disbelievers), the prophets all came with the truth, so what made these people deny one and accept the other? could they accept the truth but then deny it when it comes with someone else? or were they turned away from the truth already but accepted one over the other because of some other reason then the truth and so they could not see the truth when it came to them? so because i fear Allah, and i do not wish to be amongst these real disbelievers, i try to keep an open mind with truth as the keyword. The word khaatim, what does it really mean? since there always are and have been deceptions when it comes to the truth, what is the true meaning of the word khaatim? what were the orriginal message of the mormon faith? do we fall outside the category of mankind in respect of being tested like those who were tested before us with prophets and messengers? May Allah guide us to the truth, and may the truth be in our favor.

Given the good things of this life and yet transgress...



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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2005 at 12:38pm

the koran does not say "the last prophet" akhira annabiyeen, but khaatima annubuwa, the "seal" of prophethood as is translated or interperted.

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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2005 at 1:03pm

Originally posted by Israfil

This type of belief is not really bizarre and shouldn't be news to anyone becuase in some gnostic scriptures it is said that God, the Lord of this planet is a small "child" and that the greater beings are his parents whom are considered light of all lights and that this planet (or uiverse)  was caused through the childishness of God. Quite bizarre dont you think?

Yes it is bizarre, it is also countered by the koran, He begets not nor is He begotten, and that if He wished to take a way "to amuse" Himself He would have taken it from His ownself, as in He would not have created everything and us.

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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 06 July 2005 at 10:57am
The mormon claim of having prophets to me is disturbing in a way, they speak of childeren of God and Jesus being the Son of God, which is a lie, and i have not seen them confirming the Prophet Muhammed so to me they are liars, a planet out there might exist, but it is of no relevent importance to us here on earth, so it could well be true but a trick from shaitaan to deceive people.
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 07 July 2005 at 2:09pm

My Bro Community

Can you explain this little more as to what do you expect from a self claimed prophet of another faith even if attests Prophet Mohammad?

"and i have not seen them confirming the Prophet Muhammed so to me they are liars"

Don't you think, that Prophet Mohammad is the last Prophet of Allah?



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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2005 at 3:37pm

Muhammed is Khatim annubuwwa, my point is, we as muslims have our test too, like the jews and christians before us, do we accept the truth when it comes to us? jews denied messengers of Allah, Jesus and Muhammed amongst those rejected by them, christians denied Muhammed, so how about us muslims? surely the test with messengers either accepting them or denying them also applies to muslims, it can not be that we are just skipped over.....

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