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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: A former mormon needs some advice Post Reply Post New Topic
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 12:03am

Back to poor Jenni's question.  (As a Mormon, I find it funny a discussion of our faith always ends up about little green men because of the misinterpretation of comments about Kolob, but I'm not here for my faith, I'm here to learn about yours.)  Anyway, As for your Mormom family, I have some solid advice.  Recently I went home for Easter, in the Russian Orthodox church, that is the most important holiday.  My Aunts, bless their souls, don't understand my need to find the truth and constantly asked and cajoled me to come to church with them.  Finally, after several snippy comments about polygamy and funny underwear, I had enough.  Very respectfully, I told my family I loved them dearly and would always love them, but I respected their beliefs and they had to respect mine and simply laid down the rules.  They were not to comment about my religion or interfer in my families practices and I would not comment to them or try to convert them.  (I cannot have children, but I'm planning on adopting, so I'm safe there for now)  If your family loves you, they would rather have you with them than separate.  Tell your family to not talk to your children about religion.  I get harassed by my mother and grandmother about NOT drinking coffee and tea and from my grandfather because I didn't taste his homemade wine at Easter Dinner.  Then after sticking to my guns, my mother as a peace offering bought me some herbal tea and postum (coffee substitute), so they will come around.  Sometimes families are hard headed, just continue to make the line known, but still show them you love them.  Also, as for the Missionaries....I don't know where you live, I'm assuming Utah...if you live in Utah Valley, call the Missionary Home in Provo and ask the Mission President to make sure that Missionaries know to say away from your door.  The missionaries in your area will be advised and leave you alone.  If all else fails, my sister just hung a sign on her door to get rid of the Jehovah's Witnesses....."I gave at the Office, I already heard God's Message, and I don't want to buy anything.  Thank you and Have a Nice Day."

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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 6:01am

My Bro Community,

You have not answered my question, here it is again specifically asked "Don't you think, that Prophet Mohammad is the last Prophet of Allah?"

Your answer "Muhammed is Khatim annubuwwa..." is typical of my brothers for whom the messangers of Allah may never end, hence taking their own meanings of "Khatim" opposite to common understanding. So, why not you ask this specific question about Khatim annubuwwa as a seperate thread on this forum and we shall see what people know about this issue and shall help us understand your perspective as well.

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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 11:00am
Khatim, this word means seal i am convinced of this, but rather the word Nubuwwa, it means "prophethood", rasool, is "a sent one", a messenger.
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 12:07pm
Sure, but again what does seal signify to you. According to common understanding 'seal' is to 'close', but some of my brothers thinks that 'seal' implies to 'attest'. So what is your view out of the two?
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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 1:51pm

To attest.

116. Said Moses: "Throw ye (first)." So when they threw, they bewitched the eyes of the people, and struck terror into them: for they showed a great (feat of) magic.

117. We put it into Moses's mind by inspiration: "Throw (now) thy rod":and behold! it swallows up straight away all the falsehoods which they fake!

118. Thus truth was confirmed, and all that they did was made of no effect.

119. So the (great ones) were vanquished there and then, and were made to look small.

120. But the sorcerers fell down prostrate in adoration.

121. Saying: "We believe in the Lord of the Worlds,-

122. "The Lord of Moses and Aaron."

I accidentally pasted this, but this is what i was intending to paste:

attest:

116. Said Moses: "Throw ye (first)." So when they threw, they bewitched the eyes of the people, and struck terror into them: for they showed a great (feat of) magic.

117. We put it into Moses's mind by inspiration: "Throw (now) thy rod":and behold! it swallows up straight away all the falsehoods which they fake!

118. Thus truth was confirmed, and all that they did was made of no effect.

119. So the (great ones) were vanquished there and then, and were made to look small.

120. But the sorcerers fell down prostrate in adoration.

121. Saying: "We believe in the Lord of the Worlds,-

122. "The Lord of Moses and Aaron."

Let me try again

Attest:

  1. To affirm to be correct, true, or genuine: The date of the painting was attested by the appraiser.
  2. To certify by signature or oath: attest a will.
  3. To certify in an official capacity.

Akhir means last, khatim means seal, and to some it means attest. There is also khatam al quran, which means completing the recital of the whole koran, it does not mean that the koran will not be recited again. So clearly khatim (seal) does not mean akhir(last). But it indicates a comletion. Nowhere in the koran does Allah say that muhammed is "akhir arrosul" last of the messengers. Or in anyway tells us that Muhammed is the last messenger, except when people used "khatim annubuwwa" as meaning the last messenger, this is dishonest, first because it says khatim which means seal and not akhir which means last, secondly it says nubuwwa which is translated as Prophethood. Thirdly there is a difference between nabiy(prophet) and rasool(sent one) and then there is also the word Mursaleen(the sent ones with a certain message that already exists) because you can say mursaloona bi al quraan which means sent(plural) with the koran, so they are mursaleen. Hard to accept for some maybe, but so was it for those jews and christians before the muslims, and you will not find in the way(tradition, sunnat) of Allah any change, or any other situation. "Lan tajida fee sunnati Allahi tahweelan walaa taghieeran" The best provision is the fear of Allah, this will help someone not to reject truth when it comes to him, he will hear the truth or be careful to reject anything said because he will stand before Allah who will judge with Truth. Being proud like the jews by thinking they are right without being truthful, because they could'nt be truthful, because it would mean they would have to admit they were wrong and take a step down from their position which they got used to and obviously did not want to give it up made them losers, and shame is upon them. Allah tests mankind, and it seems that every time some people reject a messenger or prophet, so we all should be really careful with rejecting, because it might be the truth, so we should be truthful and look into what is said, if the goal is the truth. And Allah is the manifest Truth. So what is the critirion? al furqaan? al qur'an, the koran, not people and their methodologies.

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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 2:21pm
O my dear bro Community, so you finally agree to my specualtion. Nevertheless, I think, its better to open up a new thread than voilating the norms of this forum by discussing this concept of last vs Seal about Prophethood of Mohammad. BTW why it took you so long for you to open up? I am here to discuss as what I logically believe to be true, but then I do remain open to correct myself, if I ever find myself wrong in my concepts as there is no harm in following the right path. So, I really couldn't understand your hesitation?
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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 11:01pm

all praise is to Allah Lord of the worlds, i was kind of reluctant because i did not want people to ignore my posts because of this. And if you mean the pasting of the interpretation of the koran about Moses and the sorcerers, i did not mean to paste them because i did copy something else, but they kept popping up instead of what i copied and tried to paste, so i did not delete them, because they are important and i felt they would serve a purpose otherwise they would not show up. If you wish to read about these verses, you can in forum: General discussions under "Miracles of islam". And if you wish to start a new thread about the matter then go right ahead, and if you wish me to answer, i will.

67:13. And whether ye hide your speech or publish it, He certainly has (full) knowledge, of what is in the chests(hearts).



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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 8:06am

Bro Community, I have started this topic under new topic at the following link, for you to respond, if you like : http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1504& ;PN=1

 

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