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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Does everyone think they are a scholar?(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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Jenni
 
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bullet Posted: 16 June 2005 at 7:25am
sorrry aisha,I was a little defensive. I would like to learn some Arabic slowly, but my husband is from another country so I am trying to learn that language to teach the kids so when we visit they can communicate since all of his relatives live there(in southeast asia). I don't think in Islam you have to learn Arabic especially if you convert as an adult since it is a much greater task that learning as a child, but I think it is really good if you can. I don't feel knowing Arabic makes anyone a better Muslim though by any means. My husband learned for years to read Arabic to study Quran as a child but can not understand what he is reading and still has to read the translation, this is the case with many people in the world and I can listen to a verse on C.D. memorize and recite it and read the translation to know what it means. Most Muslims do not speak Arabic.
What is frustrating for me as a convert is that I have noticed that every Muslim wants you to be like them, whatever they do they want you to do. And no one is satisfied anymore in intelectual circles if you just want to be a good Muslim and be a nice mother and wife. Its like what are you studying now, who is your sheik, what is the school of thought you follow, I mean come on. It is all very annoying not just to me but to many many people I talk to. Many people only go to the Mosque for prayer and aviod interacting because they tire of useless comments from others. I'll give you an example My very good friend recently was at our Masjid she is half lebanese and half american and has no accent so people think she is a convert when she has been muslim all her life. She went to pick up a Quran from the bookshelve and a sister told her " oh no, you cant stand and walk while you hold the Quran, you must go on your knees." This lady proceded to demonstrate kneeling and scooting accross the floor with the Quran. My friend said well i hope you don't have to carry it very far, imagine if you had to go a few miles. My point is people make these kind of comments to me and others and we are sick of it. People love to make up rules where there should be none. Our religon is supposed to be simple enough that anyone, young or old, rich or poor, educated or not can follow it. Jenni
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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Ali Zaki
 
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bullet Posted: 16 June 2005 at 8:01am

Salam to Jenni and others,

Sister, May Allah reward you for your efforts. I am sorry that you had this experience at a Mosque, as this should be the most friendly and welcoming place for a Muslim. I have visited many mosques in many part of the U.S. If you would like to inform the group (or PM me) as to what city, state you live in, I will try (inshahAllah) to recommend a mosque to your that will be more friendly.

Those people that want to "teach you about Islam" (i.e., give unsolicited and unwelcomed advice about religion) could probably learn more from you than you can from them! Being a revert, I can relate to your experience. I can also tell you that certain schools of thought within Islam (i.e., Salafi/Wahabbi) tend to breed intolerance and harsh behavior. I would recommend avoiding those types of enviroments.

P.S. RE: Carrying the Quran on your knees. I've never heard of this before, however, I'm sure that physical therapist and chiropractors across the world are grateful for all the new business this will create for them !!

Salam

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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ummziba
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bullet Posted: 16 June 2005 at 8:12am

Assalamu alaikum,

Originally posted by Ali Zaki

Ummziba, I enjoyed reading your post and appreciate your "fresh" perspective on the discussion. I know you did not mean to be critical when you said that "they seem to make "mountains out of mole hills", however, I want to say that this is not my intention.

No, I most certainly was not being critical, I was pointing out the perceived way in which men seem to take all things on as a big task.  As I pointed out in my post, I celebrate this difference between men and women.  We can't be the same, indeed, we must not be the same.  We complete each other, like two different parts that fit together very well, just as Allah intended.

Please feel free to pursue your intention for this thread (or any other).  My point is, that as long as we are not going against Islam, we should all be more supportive of each other rather than critical. 

I do understand Jenni's view point very well.  Far too many Muslims think "their" Islam is the only one and the true one.  Far too many Muslims "make up their own rules" about Islam and try to convince others it is the right path.

Yes, we must stop being critical, but, we must also "enjoin good and forbid evil" which entails stopping "local rules" and "personal interpretations of Islam" in their tracks.  The only way to do this, is through knowledge...

And now we are back to how much must we study Islam?  It seems being a good Muslim is a careful balance of study and deeds, each of us as we are capable of doing.

Aisha, I support and applaud your efforts to learn Arabic.  Ali Zaki, I support and applaud your efforts to use knowledge to get across your points.  Jenni, I support and applaud you in your efforts to be the best mother and wife you can be.  I should be supported and applauded for trying to bring a little harmony among a few Muslims (not being "full of myself" here - just making a point).

You see, we are four good Muslims who do not necessarily see eye to eye, but can be united as Muslims for the good of the ummah without having to be critical of one another.  Gentle reminding and good knowledge are the ways brothers and sisters should help one another stay on the right path.

What was in my milk this morning?  I sound like a crazed preacher!!!  Sorry!  I hope my point is not lost in all my rambling......

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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Ali Zaki
 
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bullet Posted: 16 June 2005 at 8:58am

Salam to Ummziba,

As for me, I will say Thank You for contributing to our discussion and adding to my understanding. I certainly know that you're intentions are good and sincere in what you say. I was pointing this out primarily because I know that there are others who think that I am unneccisarily complicating things. I just wanted to attempt to clarify my intentions. Thank you (again) for giving me the opportunity!

May Allah shower his blessings on you (and your family).

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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aisha
 
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bullet Posted: 16 June 2005 at 9:06am
salam,i must apologize jenni it seems i was a bit harsh on you, believe me it was not my intention.as a revert myself i should of understood more.reading what you wrote about your friend and the masjid made me think about a conversation i had with a friend it was about how cultures can be mixed with islam and through generations can be mistaken for allahs words and hadith.once again sorry if i offended you,sallam waalikum.
aisha
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Jenni
 
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bullet Posted: 16 June 2005 at 10:40am
No problem aisha, Ummziba is right we should all support each other and when we meet people who are Muslim meet them where they are at. We should not ask them too many questions and offer too much advice. Instead I have learned the most from people who set a good example. I have some friends who are practice thier religion and others who are on the edge of being Muslim. However when we have a gathering I invite all of them from different countries and stick them together. When it is time to pray those who want to do, and those who don't know the others are. We don't tell anyone Hey, you have to pray but maybe they will see the others and be inspired and think about it. I have quite a few friends who are persian and Shia, and we invite them with our Sunni friends to our house and no one argues about differences. I hope that if they have any questions they will ask and they can see us and our similarities and differences and maybe be inspired. This is the gentle way to influence people. Be kind, and non judgemntal unless someone is doing something seriously wrong. I wish more people would interact across cultures and be more open and understand there are differences it what people do and we don't have to all be the same. For example in one city Masjid the Pakistanis and Arabs are allways fighting. They can't agree on so many things I wonder how they can be practicing the same religion. And while they are cordial to each other in the Masjid they Rarely invite each other to gatherings in thier homes and I feel they even dislike each other somewhat. Just tolerationg each other because they are here out of thier homeland and they have to. To me this is very sad and it makes it hard to make friends. I hope it will change, Inhalla-Jeni
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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Jenni
 
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bullet Posted: 16 June 2005 at 12:17pm
Thanks for your comments AliZaki as well.
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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aisha
 
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bullet Posted: 17 June 2005 at 10:58am

salaam jenni.i think you have just summed it up

aisha
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