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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Does everyone think they are a scholar?(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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Jenni
 
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bullet Topic: Does everyone think they are a scholar?
    Posted: 13 June 2005 at 5:07pm
As I read all of the posts I wonder how much time all of you have for studying every intricate detail of Islam. Isn't our religion supposed to be simple and easy enough for even a peasant or farmer to follow? I don't believe that for hundreds of years people knew of all the Hadiths and rules that people are trying to follow now. In olden times when people had to work hard they only had time to do the basics. Fast,pray, sacrifice a lamb for Eid ect. They did not know the hundreds of duas and all of the rules that four schools of thought disagree on. Doesn't anyone else think its all a little ridicules? How many people actually think that some of the minor details in life like covering your glass of water(found in a book I have of the traditions of the Messenger)will actually get you into paradise when people can't even be kind to thier neighbors and be good to thier husbands and wives? I am frankly tired of it all, and like many many Muslims want to be as good as I can without everyone with a computer a few books and the internet thinking they are an expert. If all you do is study Islam, who is caring for your life?
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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rami
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bullet Posted: 13 June 2005 at 7:44pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

No sister, that is the simple answer.

Islam is simple for those who are dont wish to get closer to Allah or are not scholars. But Allah himself in the Quran says if you bring all the oceans and use the trees as pens they will be exauhsted before the knowledge of Allah is. It is only people who are not educated in Islam which attack its scholarship claiming its all simple why make it complicated while not realising that what makes it simple is the work of scholars in preserving the Quran and sunnah for 1400 years and condensing it into point form so the average person doesnt have to know 5 different sciences to know his Aqeedah properly or how to pray properly.

The laws for inheritence and business are among the most complicated aspect of our deen and no average person can or will ever grasp them properly with out the aid of an expert. I think what is missing today is the holistic implementation of islam in our lives for us to truly see the depth of knowledge and understanding required by the average person not simply what are the conditions that must be fulfiled in order for prayer or fasting to be valid.

These in themselves are dificult if a person is atempting to get closer to his Rabb not simply fulfil an obligation. Islam is as simple and dificult as a person wants it to be or rather to what degree is he seeking to get closer to Allah.

"Are those who know equal with those who dont"?

The average person can not even tell you how to achieve taqwa or Khushu or what Ihsan is.

Yes they did know the rules of the madhhabs it was common and general knwoledge back then like no doubt you know who brad pit is today and who he is dating at the moment. islam was all around them non of the distractions that exist today where there.

Islam is for everyone the inteligent and the not so inteligent as well as the average person Allahs knowledge is never ending.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Jenni
 
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bullet Posted: 13 June 2005 at 8:33pm
I understand what you are saying, yet my mother in law who only went to school until the age of sixteen and is not a scholar is kind and generous and prays with all of her heart. She is one of the reasons I became a Muslim. Her goodness influenced me and seeing her read the Quran. She was born in and raised in a Muslim country and I'm sure she does not know what KHUSHU or IHSAN is. She was a widow with 3 kids at the age of 29 and raised them herself. She was a mother and sister, daughter and neighbor. Caring for others  and now loving her grandchildren. So do you think because she does not have great knowledge of scholarship she is not close to AllaH Pak? I think Allah is the only reason she made it as a widow and her closeness to him is what made her survive her grief and raise her children without remarrying. Please don't give me the intelectual argument, is your mother a scholar?
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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rami
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bullet Posted: 13 June 2005 at 8:56pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

So do you think because she does not have great knowledge of scholarship she is not close to AllaH Pak? I think Allah is the only reason she made it as a widow and her closeness to him is what made her survive her grief and raise her children without remarrying. Please don't give me the intelectual argument, is your mother a scholar?


There are 7 levels of heaven sister, those in the lowest level are the furthest away from allah even though in relation to the people of hell they would be considered close to him. those in the highest level are the nearest.

Would you say your mother is destined for the highest level of Jannah? from what you described no, as there degrees of closness.

Not every scholar is destined for the highest level of jannah and you do not need be a scholar but having understanding in the religion means you know your path to Allah.

Allah himself made the distinction between those who have knowledge and those who dont when asked "are those who know equal with those who dont".

You are judgeing according to your understanding which seems to be black and white but nothing is either this or that there are degrees to everything even hell has 7 levels according to which a person deserves.

It is reported on the authority of ‘Umar b. al-Khattab that he said:

“One day, while we were sitting with Rasulallah (s), a man appeared before us.  His garments were sparkling white; his hair the darkest black.  No signs of travel appeared on him.  None of us recognized him.  He went to the Prophet (s) and sat in front of him, placing his knees before [the Prophet’s] knees.  He also placed his hands upon the Prophet’s thighs, saying: ‘Muhammad, What is Islam?’                  
Rasulallah, (s), replied, saying: ‘Islam is to testify that there is no deity save Allah and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; to establish regular prayer; to give regular alms; to fast Ramadan; and, to visit Allah’s House as a pilgrim, if you are able.’                  
The stranger said, ‘You speak the truth.’                  
‘Umar said: We were amazed that he would ask him [a question], then tell him he was truthful!                  
The stranger said: ‘Muhammad, what is faith?’                 
"Rasulallah replied, saying: ‘Faith is to believe in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, the Last Day, and to believe in [the Divine] Power, its good and its ill.’                  
The stranger said: ‘You speak the truth.’  Then, he said: ‘What is Ihsan?’                  
Rasulallah replied, saying: Ihsan is to serve Allah as though you see Him, but if you see Him not, then [to serve Him knowing] He sees you.'
The stranger said: ‘You speak the truth.’  Then, he said: ‘Can you inform me about the Hour?’
Rasulallah replied, saying: ‘The questioned knows no more about it then the questioner.’
The stranger said: ‘Then tell me of its signs.’
Rasulallah said: ‘[Among] its signs are that the slave woman shall give birth to her mistress, and that the poor, naked and barefoot, the herders of sheep, shall compete in raising tall buildings.’
The stranger tarried but a moment before departing.  The Prophet (s) said to me: ‘ ‘Umar, do you know who was the questioner?’  I replied that Allah and His Messenger knew better. 
Rasulallah (s) said: ‘This is Jibril.  He came to teach you your religion.’”




Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Abu Hadi
 
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bullet Posted: 14 June 2005 at 4:21am

Salams to All

Bismillah Ar Rahman Ar Rahim

Noone has the right to say who is closer to Allah(s.w.a) and who is further away because noone knows this except Allah(s.w.a). I am by no means a scholar, I never claimed to be one, nor do I do this full time. I have a full time job and I do this when I have a few minutes. I think like most of us, we belive that we are doing our Islamic duty to increase our own knowledge and Enjoin Good and Forbid evil. Both of these are things that we were commanded to do by our Holy Prophet(a.s.).

Personally, I have received some private emails (and I'm sure others on this forum have also received these) saying that this person benefitted from something I posted and to continue posting. That is why I continue. I also have a family, car payments, a mortgage. I don't receive any money for this. I think we all need to set aside something for the next life by way of good deeds, because our paychecks (however large or small) will not help us then. There are certainly other ways of doing good deeds.

There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error...
Quran Ch.2 Verse 256
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Ali Zaki
 
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bullet Posted: 14 June 2005 at 7:34am

Salam to Jenni, Rami and Abu Hadi,

Jenny wrote

" As I read all of the posts I wonder how much time all of you have for studying every intricate detail of Islam. "

Well Jenny, since you're in the U.S., you know that the average American adult spends 15-20 hours per week watching television, 5 hrs. per weeks playing video games, etc. In my economics class in college, I learned about something called " Opportunity Cost", which means, every hour of your life has a cost associated with it. I choose to spend some of my "free time" in learning about Islam (from books and others), and sharing my knowledge. And, in case you're wondering, I have alot of other things going on in my life besides this forum (I guess you'll just have to take my word for that).

Jenny wrote

" They did not know the hundreds of duas and all of the rules that four schools of thought disagree on. "

From the Holy Quran, we know that Allah (s.w.a.) does not place on us a burden greater than we can bear, and does not judge us by any standard other than our knowledge and capacities (which he knows well, being our creator.) By your action of "freely choosing" to read these post means that you may have a greater-than-average capacity to understand the issues discussed. If so, then maybe you should continue to read and participate in this forum (as you find the time and energy to do so.)

Jenny wrote

I am frankly tired of it all, and like many many Muslims want to be as good as I can without everyone with a computer a few books and the internet thinking they are an expert.

Being as good as you can, as knowledgable as you can, etc. is all Allah (s.w.a) expects from you (but don't underestimate yourself). I have said many times in my posts (maybe I should add it do my signiature) that I AM NOT A SCHOLAR. I do not even speak or write Arabic fluently, so I cannot be a scholar by definition. This is why I try to always cite my sources, and rely on scholarly references for my statements. I am a student, and I am just trying to learn more about Islam and share my knowledge with others.

I know that the majority of Muslims are not interested in these subjects. If you want to just "do the basics", noone is here to judge you or tell you what you should do. This is why we are Muslims, i.e., we do not depend on the opinions of others, but on the Quran, The prophets (a.s.) and his purified progeny for guidance.

Verily, Verily, deeds are more important than words or argument!

Salam

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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Jenni
 
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bullet Posted: 14 June 2005 at 7:52am
So Rami you can say she is not destined for the Highest level of paradise, Why???? Has she not fulfilled her duty in life as a wife, mother and member of her community. She has fasted, said her prayers and payed Zakat. She HAS DONE WHAT WAS REQUIRED OF HER> And has a kind heart. By the way since I dont claim to be knowledgable isn't there a verse in the Quran or a Hadith I'm not sure that says most people in heaven will have been poor. Lets think in most poor countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan and Egypt most poor people can't read or write. They probably only learned and memorized thier prayers and know the basics of being a Muslim, they fast and pray. So you think that if you have more knowledge you are better than them and destined to a higher level in paradise than they are? Doesn't it say in the Quran you are judged by your good and bad deeds? So If I have 20 hours a week to spare between my Husband,and children and caring for myself and I spend all of it on scholarly reading or I spend 3 hours reading and 17 voluntering my time and helping the elderly or working with children, which in your intelectual eyes is more important???
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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Ali Zaki
 
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bullet Posted: 14 June 2005 at 8:17am

Salam to Jenni,

" So If I have 20 hours a week to spare between my Husband,and children and caring for myself and I spend all of it on scholarly reading or I spend 3 hours reading and 17 voluntering my time and helping the elderly or working with children, which in your intelectual eyes is more important??? "

Allah hu Alim (God (alone) is the judge!) As I said before, I am not here to judge you or tell you what to do. You know yourself, your life situation, etc. better than anyone except Allah (s.w.a.), and you are the best person to make that judgement. As for me, I am seeking knowledge because it is highly encouraged in Islam (as is voluntering time and helping the elderly or working with children). Allah (s.w.a) created us as individuals, and given us many ways to "move towards" him.

Noone knows the true value of an individual except Allah (s.w.a.) Anyone who says, "I am better than him/her" is only imitating the Shaytan (Satan) when he refused to obey the command of Allah (s.w.a.) and bow down to Adam. Arrogance is the root of disobedience to Allah (s.w.a.)

Salam.

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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