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rocitreal
 
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bullet Posted: 23 July 2005 at 7:56pm

I will read and research any solid information you can dig up saying Bush is a Nazi, but what i have heard so far is just dangerous rhitoric. 

Let me ask you this, do you think the Pope is a Nazi ????  your Bush info is much more distant than the Pope's yet i dont hear anyone calling the Pope a Nazi.

Originally posted by rocitreal

scientists were not admitted to the US they would have been admitted to someplace else, possibly Japan ? 

Originally posted by noah

So what? They were war criminals. Nevermind who took them in as freinds.

they were not soldiers, they were scientists working under Hitler's demands.  The ones who would not work for Hitler were killed, inprisoned, or escaped.  America didnt take them in as friends, they took them in because they surendered to them.  Many were very intellegent people and america needed there smarts, plain and simple.  I do agree that many of them should have been taken to trial but with there help we ended ww2.

Originally posted by rocitreal

It is true that many of them were part of the Nazi party but what you must realize is that we were still at war, and war is about technology, not who's side a single individual is on, its about the entire countries technology. 

Originally posted by noah

BS and you know it. Thise guys where nazi scientists. I have several books i can reccomend if you want to know excactly what guys like dr.werner von braun was into. You see over here in denmark (right next to germany) we are allowed to know the truth about what happened. You and i both know that they should have been put on trial for war crimes against humanity.

As if in America we are restricted in information by our government. dr.werner von braun was a genius who was involved in germany as a rocket scientist long before Hitler gained power.  He wasnt developing his rockets for the use of weapons, he was much more intreasted in launching them into space.  He didnt "murder" anyone, he made rockets which Hitler took and used as weapons.  I suppose Einstein should be called a murderer for his scientific advancements ?

Originally posted by rocitreal

 America was attacked by Japan, not the other way around. 

Originally posted by noah

Yes and your governemtn knew in advance. That hardly a secret by now. Its even in our history books in school. And no...denmark is NOT a muslim state, we are the one country who have been behind your pirate crusade, together with UK all the way. Still, we get to know the truth.

O, ok so your saying the US Government ask the Japanise to attack.  There were signs of there attack that could have been seen sooner, yes.   Does that mean we ask for it ??? of course not.  Just because they new a short time before hand wouldnt have changed the fact the attack that was coming.

Originally posted by rocitreal

 If Japan had the nuklear scientiests of Germany do you think they would have used the bombs on the US ?

Originally posted by noah

We will never know, all we know is that they for sure never got a chance though.

thank God.  They were not looking to end the war they started.

Originally posted by rocitreal

of course they would have, they were the ones that wanted war to begin with, not only with us but ask the Chinese and Philopieno's what they think of Japan in WW2

Originally posted by noah

You obviously dont know you ass from your elbow regarding history and WW2. Why was it that japan attacked in the first place? now go and do your homework.

Japan turning into a military state, exiting the League of Nations, and beginning its seige of China's coastline and cities.

Originally posted by noah

a pretty thing but its what had to be done in order to advance American Technology faster than Japan could advance theres.  '

Originally posted by noah

excuses. they are still nazi facsist murderers.

They were not personally murdering people, they were scientists not soldiers.  personally, im glad that the US did what it had to do in order to advance our technology and end the war.

Originally posted by rocitreal

in war no side is ever free of any bad deads, sometimes bad deads must be done in order to win the war.  Also, these scientiest's who were extremely advanced thinkers and well ahead of any others in there field in the world at the time were not allowed to bring the Nazi empire stratigy with them that is why America continued to try to find an END to the war, not to SPREAD IT as the Nazi's did.

Originally posted by noah

You dont even really know what nazism is, its ideaology or how it operates, do you?

the totalitarian principle of government, state control of all industry, predominance of groups assumed to be racially superior, and supremacy of the führer.

Nothing like the current Government in the US might I add.

Originally posted by rocitreal

ok how properous Japan has been sense they made UNCONDITIONAL surrender to the USA.  We helped them advance and make there country as great as it is today.  In addition we helped Germany, Italy, and South Korea which are all very democratic countries in thanks to the US.

Originally posted by noah

EVERYBODY INVOLVED WITH THE WAR HELPED BUILD UP THOSE NATIONS!.

The Marshell Plan allocating billions of US dollars to reconstruction was the biggest funding source.  Notice these countries adopted Democratic governments modeled primarily from the US democracy.

Originally posted by rocitreal

The big picture of Bush was ALTERED

Originally posted by noah

Ofcourse you can prove this. Because me, with 10+ years of photoshop experince simply cannot tell.

can you tell me where the picture was taken ? who took the picture or even who published it ?  how bout where they found the picture ? furthermore, this site has lots of  UFO pictures of skillet lids and such floating in air, this isnt something that has to be proven false UFO's, rather the skillet lids and such need to be proven to be UFO's, just as this Bush picture.  show me any information on the pictures origion and then we can talk about its authinticity

The site you linked it from is full of garbage, all it takes is a 10 second look to see that.

Originally posted by rocitreal

the bottom picture is him waving not making a Nazi Solute as much as you would like to think so.  America is all to familiar with the Nazi Solute and if the President was making that American's wouldnt stand for it!  He was re-elected and it wasnt for any Nazism you may think you see.

Originally posted by noah

Oh, i see nazism allright. And not because of Bush gestures, that is just the bird in the tip of the iceberg.

Go ahead and write your own iceberg story if you like, that seems common these days.  I would enjoy discussing your information if you have anything solid to support your claim besides some inheritance money from 2 generations back having loose nazi links.

Originally posted by noah

Yeah well personally im rather sceptic about UFOs but i dont tell people what they should belive in. thats their problem. If disagreement on a single subject completely discredit the media that said it. You couldnt never watch new, tv, or press in general at all.

ok, so everyone in media is trying to fool you.  I think not, you go ahead and look at your pictures of skillet lids all you want.

Originally posted by rocitreal

your site is CRAP buddy, get some real pictures.

Originally posted by noah

No its a good collection of images. There arent the full explanation on any of the images they present, but thats why we all have to do our own homework. Im willing to find 1000 facsis for you from different non UFO wielding pages. But you still have no exsplanation as to why you have the FACSI in your congress! actually you have 2.''

accually they give "insight" and "explainations" for many of the pictures.  Its far from a "collection of images".



Edited by rocitreal
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bullet Posted: 24 July 2005 at 12:12am

Originally posted by jibreel

Noah , your dealing with the EXTREMIST here, even Osama Ben Laden has seemed to be more calm then this character who likes to insult anyone who does not agree with him., and by the way, what is Osama wanted for?

Bin Laden simpathizer indead you are.  Im sure Americans are the extremists in Bin Laden's eyes, yet he is the one planning attacks wholly based on killing innocent people of all religions.  Thats the problem you have, you are not a rational thinker, you write your own words inbetween the lines you read.

Originally posted by jibreel

And why would rocitreal go as far as he does advocating like a extremist here for Bush, think about it, why is he SO SCARED AND PARANOID but can not connect that only these types of
Cowards are extremist themselves, like the nazis for example?

You brung up Bush, not me, I dont like lies about anyone, expecially the president of my country.  Like i said before, I didnt vote for Bush but he is the leader of my great country and I will not stand asside while people like you make up terrible lies to spread.

Your really nutty man, ill give you that much. Noah has some logical thought going into his arguement but you just dont make any sence whatsoever, your in your own world.

Originally posted by jibreel

HAVE YOU NOT NOTICED WHY HE CAME TO A ISLAMIC FORUM rather then going to a Noam Chomsky  or alex Jones forum to debate about theories against the facts? pretty racist ideas about islam and muslims say.

I have no racist ideas.  I came to this board and other Islamic boards because i feel it very important that someone speak up for the truth and not let people like you make up lies to spread hatred and justification for terrorist attacks against my friends and fellow countrymen just trying to do there jobs.  Besides that, i enjoy talking with many muslims as they are generally very good people with level headed thinking, then there are the closed minded who justify there horrible mental hatred with lies and spread like the plague, sadly, you seem to be of this group jibreel.

Why are you posting on the board ? to spread your phony lies.



Edited by rocitreal
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Noah
 
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bullet Posted: 24 July 2005 at 3:01am

the totalitarian principle of government, state control of all industry, predominance of groups assumed to be racially superior, and supremacy of the führer.

Nothing like the current Government in the US might I add.


Or in other words

1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Check!
2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
Check!
3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
Check!
4.) Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
Check!
5.) Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
Check!
6.) Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
Check!
7.) Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses
Check!
8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
Check!
9.) Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
Check!
10.) Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
Check!
11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
Check!
12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations
Check!
13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Check!
14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Check!

As for the rest. im not really impressed. bu  guess that wasnt the point either.

Peace
Noah

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bullet Posted: 24 July 2005 at 3:06am
Let me ask you this, do you think the Pope is a Nazi ????


No not at all, i view him as the devil incarnated along with Hans Peter Kolvenbach.

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rocitreal
 
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bullet Posted: 24 July 2005 at 11:16am

so the Pope is the devil and Bush is Hitler.  You sure do know how to make some bold accusations with no factual basis whatso ever.

My government is no differant than it was in the past, the people still control who is elected, the media still covers very important issues without government censorship.  My fellow military men and women are not the SS.  My government does not control all industry and we do not look at Bush as our Fuhrer.

your twisting facts to suit your own wishes.  I suppose you would want my country to be a bunch of Nazis, not going to happen.

a Fascist country and a Nazi country are not the same first of all.  Secondly

BOTH REQUIRE A DICTATOR.

do you know what a dictator is ???

they cant be elected officials as USA officials are.  Furthermore there is a Congress with hundreds of people in full control of there constitutional rights as representatives.

The USA Government is fail safe against letting a dictator control the country.  You dont know much about what Democracy is or where it comes from do you ?



Edited by rocitreal
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bullet Posted: 24 July 2005 at 12:13pm
No admitted i use facsism and nazism interconnected. Nazis are a specific group of facsists, However its one that everybody knows, so its good to compare with. And always remeber, that just like in germany everybody thought.


My government is no differant than it was in the past, the people still control who is elected,


No you dont. That was obvious to the whole world. except you. Even our media commented on both elections as being flimsy at best.

the media still covers very important issues without government censorship.


Wake up freind, im not attacking you
http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_ content_id=1000990590
http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/report.asp?ObjID=imOUU2rj8m &Content=608
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=18811& ;c=206
Here is a very good image of what is really going on with media. Both yours aswell as ours. We are loosing the battle to someone, who doesnt want us to know what is really going on, unfortunally. So we are close behind you in this regard.




My fellow military men and women are not the SS.


So this naval base was made by accident.

 Please let go of your denial, you government is lying to you, and it is dangerous to all of us. Our governments are lying SOB's aswell. They are all interconnected through enormous fortunes.

My government does not control all industry and we do not look at Bush as our Fuhrer.

No they dont controll all of it, however they allow it to run rampant, wich is excactly the same.

As for not looking at the leaders os a fuhrer.
Neither did the Germans. Only about 51% actually.


BOTH REQUIRE A DICTATOR.

do you know what a dictator is ???

they cant be elected officials as USA officials are.  Furthermore there is a Congress with hundreds of people in full control of there constitutional rights as representatives.

The USA Government is fail safe against letting a dictator control the country.  You dont know much about what Democracy is or where it comes from do you ?


Living in one of the worlds oldest democracy's im well aware of what it is and its story and implications, thank you :)


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bullet Posted: 24 July 2005 at 10:19pm

Es_Selam'un Aleykum

Islamicity in the hope of catching Osama Bin Ladin and Sterilizing Him Center suggests you to watching that video including an interview with Sheikh Hamza Yusuf....

Islamicity In The Hope of Catching Osama Bin Ladin and Strelizing Him Center(IITHOCOBLASHC),putting your safety first since 2003.

  http://linktv.org/pages/selectorPop.php4?caller=http://www.a rchive.org/download&prefix=WSFI20050208&name=WSFI200 50208&filetype=mov&description=WSFI20050208

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bullet Posted: 25 July 2005 at 6:33am

Noah, i think its clear to any level headed thinker exactly who the enemies of the entire world is.  Its the terrorist organizations.

If they had the power that the US government has the world would be in total Chaos.  I live in the birthplace of democracy and the people of this country stand by there powers provided to them by our groundbreaking constitution which has changed the face of the world for the best giving the people election powers and term limits over leaders.

If you would like to believe that the US military is over ran by SS officers, the Pope is the devil "reincarnated" and Bush is Hitler in descise that is your right to think what you wish.  Please dont spread this nonsense though, there are many people who take this kind of information and go join up in these terror organizations based on lies being spread.

Its clear who the real enemy is, that Bin Laden and his evil propaganda being spread to corrupt the minds of many.  Its rhitoric like what you are spreading which helps extremists convince themselves blowing up to kill innocent people is a good thing.  This needs to stop, 

Bin Laden is the enemy of ALL that is good, not America.  The US has advanced civilization, not been trying to set it back a thousand years.

Suleyman, i couldnt agree more, Bin Laden and his movement must be contained and controlled before they ruin the advancement of civilization.



Edited by rocitreal
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