IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Jesus’ new commandment

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robin

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Posted: 05 July 2008 at 2:29pm

Originally posted by minuteman

robin had written:

In turn when sin is accomplished, this brings death, see James 1:15!

The other christians also say that wages of sin are death. That is a general belief of the church people.

I would like to know that the result of sin is death. How could that be? If a person does not commit any sin then he will not die? Your religion (JW's and all christians) is unnatural. It is not rational.

Thenthey do not believe in repentence.I see in bible, so many times, Jesus had told people to repent. But the church fellows say "No". God cannot or will not forgive any one unless he believes in Jesus. Then the blood of Jesus will take away the sins of that person and he may thenbe forgiven.

Such a complicated formula for forgiveness takes the mankind away from God and puts other people in between the Creator God and the Creatures. Again irrational.

1 John 3:4

Everyone who practices sin is also practicing lawlessness, and so sin is lawlessness.

All humans are born imperfect , thus sinful, as all humans are inclined not to obey God and have to learn to obey God!

Sin/Lawlessness toward God brings death.

It is not complicated.

Jesus shows us how to obey God, we can look see how he did things and follow his example as close as we can, this is faith in what he stands for! This will lead to the end of sin as Jesus obyed God in all things.

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believer

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Posted: 05 July 2008 at 5:48pm

Religion is not for any ones personal desires.

Yes so stick with one wife.

Why is he a sinner?

Not one of us can be sinless.

It is perhaps believed that if a man and woman sleep together and have the intercourse, (they being husband and wife) they commit sin. In other words even the legal mating of families is a sin.

LOL!! No sin. They are even allowed to kiss and hold hands in public, sit beside each other in church, hug in public, go swimming together, even skinny dipping in private and it is not a sin.

Why do you keep killing Jesus over and over again? He died once and for all.

minuteman- You believe there are just a few sinners? Are you one of those sinless Muslims?

Muslims can sin without death?

Do you understand seath of the soul?

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

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minuteman

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Posted: 06 July 2008 at 12:52am

In the above two posts, robin has not replied to my points. If any one will not sin then he will not die? If he sins then how quickly he will die? Why a new born baby is a sinner? Yet he lives upto a very long age of 70 to 80 years? Tell exact reason please.. There is no real reply to these questions from robin.

robin has not replied about monogamy or ploygamy. What does JW' say about it?

Believer has also made wandering remarks. Quran permits polygamy but advises to have only one wife. There is strict order to treat all wives equally.

The answers given by the believer are vague. Believer has not replied to any question as to why a new born child is a sinner? Why Jesus in all the world from Adam till today is sinless but all others, even prophets are sinners? Only jesus (who is born from a sinner lady , Mary) is sinless? Was Mary also sinless? The mating of the husband and wife is an act of sin or not? No clear reply is given.

But instead a wandering unclear un-necessary long sentence is written by believer to avoid and confuse the issue. The above questions should be clearly replied. Otherwise it would be understood that church has no real teachings about social and spiritual behaviour.

Edited by minuteman - 06 July 2008 at 12:57am

If any one is bad some one must suffer

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believer

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Posted: 06 July 2008 at 6:58am

No Mary was sinful, but she was also obedient to GOD and a good person. Jesus is sinless because He is the Son of GOD.

minuteman - can you understand that a person can be sinful and a good person at the same time? The potential to be a sinner is always present- even in the baby.

osama bin laden - a horrific terrorist, but he may have also been a loving son and very good to his parents.

The mating of the husband and wife is an act of sin or not? No clear reply is given. my reply

LOL!! No sin. They are even allowed to kiss and hold hands in public, sit beside each other in church, hug in public, go swimming together, even skinny dipping in private and it is not a sin.

Not sure how to make it any more clear!!

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 06 July 2008 at 11:03am

Originally posted by minuteman

I would like to know that the result of sin is death. How could that be? If a person does not commit any sin then he will not die? Your religion (JW's and all christians) is unnatural. It is not rational.

The result of sin is the death of the soul, not of the body.

The New Testament teaches that anyone believes in Jesus (which means believing the the things that He stood for, including repentance for sins) will have everlasting life (in spirit, not in the body). As far as I am aware, it does not say the converse, that anyone who does not believe in Jesus will not have everlasting life.

Such a complicated formula for forgiveness takes the mankind away from God and puts other people in between the Creator God and the Creatures. Again irrational.

The message of Jesus is simplicity itself: "whosoever believeth in Him shall have everlasting life." (John 3:16) It can't get any simpler than that. As long as you are following Christ's teachings -- i.e., as long as you trying to live a good, moral life and as long as you sincerely regret any errors or lapses -- that is enough.

If you want complicated and irrational, look no further than Islam, with its detailed and arcane rules about how and when to pray, what to eat or drink, how to wash your hands, pilgrimage, fasting, sharia, etc.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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yuzasaf

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Posted: 06 July 2008 at 4:44pm

Freud talks about the infant's guilt already. Are the old man, in who there are not desires,, hormones guilty?

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minuteman

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Posted: 06 July 2008 at 7:01pm

Ron, I will not quote. Your reply is more near to truth. You have given a good reply. I will try to get back to you soon and only then I will give my opinion. Thanks.

If any one is bad some one must suffer

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believer

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Posted: 08 July 2008 at 9:02am

Ron said-anyone who does not believe in Jesus will not have everlasting life.

John 3

17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

I understand this as those that don't believe that Jesus was sent as our saviour will be judged by the Law of GOD. Jesus was sent for the sinners, not the righteous. If you can follow ALL the Laws of GOD then you are ok.

Another reason Jesus was sent- Through Jesus the Gentiles are grafted onto the roots of the Jews.

Edited by believer - 08 July 2008 at 9:03am

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

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Author	Message
robin Senior Member Joined: 17 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 595	Posted: 05 July 2008 at 2:29pm
	*Originally posted by minuteman* robin had written: In turn when sin is accomplished, this brings death, see James 1:15! The other christians also say that wages of sin are death. That is a general belief of the church people. I would like to know that the result of sin is death. How could that be? If a person does not commit any sin then he will not die? Your religion (JW's and all christians) is unnatural. It is not rational. \ Thenthey do not believe in repentence.I see in bible, so many times, Jesus had told people to repent. But the church fellows say "No". God cannot or will not forgive any one unless he believes in Jesus. Then the blood of Jesus will take away the sins of that person and he may thenbe forgiven. Such a complicated formula for forgiveness takes the mankind away from God and puts other people in between the Creator God and the Creatures. Again irrational. 1 John 3:4 Everyone who practices sin is also practicing lawlessness, and so sin is lawlessness. All humans are born imperfect , thus sinful, as all humans are inclined not to obey God and have to learn to obey God! Sin/Lawlessness toward God brings death. It is not complicated. Jesus shows us how to obey God, we can look see how he did things and follow his example as close as we can, this is faith in what he stands for! This will lead to the end of sin as Jesus obyed God in all things.
	IP Logged

believer Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1397	Posted: 05 July 2008 at 5:48pm
	Religion is not for any ones personal desires. Yes so stick with one wife. Why is he a sinner? Not one of us can be sinless. It is perhaps believed that if a man and woman sleep together and have the intercourse, (they being husband and wife) they commit sin. In other words even the legal mating of families is a sin. LOL!! No sin. They are even allowed to kiss and hold hands in public, sit beside each other in church, hug in public, go swimming together, even skinny dipping in private and it is not a sin. Why do you keep killing Jesus over and over again? He died once and for all. minuteman- You believe there are just a few sinners? Are you one of those sinless Muslims? Muslims can sin without death? Do you understand seath of the soul?
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
	IP Logged

minuteman Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1642	Posted: 06 July 2008 at 12:52am
	In the above two posts, robin has not replied to my points. If any one will not sin then he will not die? If he sins then how quickly he will die? Why a new born baby is a sinner? Yet he lives upto a very long age of 70 to 80 years? Tell exact reason please.. There is no real reply to these questions from robin. robin has not replied about monogamy or ploygamy. What does JW' say about it? Believer has also made wandering remarks. Quran permits polygamy but advises to have only one wife. There is strict order to treat all wives equally. The answers given by the believer are vague. Believer has not replied to any question as to why a new born child is a sinner? Why Jesus in all the world from Adam till today is sinless but all others, even prophets are sinners? Only jesus (who is born from a sinner lady , Mary) is sinless? Was Mary also sinless? The mating of the husband and wife is an act of sin or not? No clear reply is given. But instead a wandering unclear un-necessary long sentence is written by believer to avoid and confuse the issue. The above questions should be clearly replied. Otherwise it would be understood that church has no real teachings about social and spiritual behaviour. Edited by minuteman - 06 July 2008 at 12:57am
	If any one is bad some one must suffer
	IP Logged

believer Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1397	Posted: 06 July 2008 at 6:58am
	No Mary was sinful, but she was also obedient to GOD and a good person. Jesus is sinless because He is the Son of GOD. minuteman - can you understand that a person can be sinful and a good person at the same time? The potential to be a sinner is always present- even in the baby. osama bin laden - a horrific terrorist, but he may have also been a loving son and very good to his parents. The mating of the husband and wife is an act of sin or not? No clear reply is given. my reply LOL!! No sin. They are even allowed to kiss and hold hands in public, sit beside each other in church, hug in public, go swimming together, even skinny dipping in private and it is not a sin. Not sure how to make it any more clear!!
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
	IP Logged

Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1403	Posted: 06 July 2008 at 11:03am
	*Originally posted by minuteman* I would like to know that the result of sin is death. How could that be? If a person does not commit any sin then he will not die? Your religion (JW's and all christians) is unnatural. It is not rational. The result of sin is the death of the soul, not of the body. Thenthey do not believe in repentence.I see in bible, so many times, Jesus had told people to repent. But the church fellows say "No". God cannot or will not forgive any one unless he believes in Jesus. Then the blood of Jesus will take away the sins of that person and he may thenbe forgiven. The New Testament teaches that anyone believes in Jesus (which means believing the the things that He stood for, including repentance for sins) will have everlasting life (in spirit, not in the body). As far as I am aware, it does not say the converse, that anyone who does not believe in Jesus will not have everlasting life. Such a complicated formula for forgiveness takes the mankind away from God and puts other people in between the Creator God and the Creatures. Again irrational. The message of Jesus is simplicity itself: "whosoever believeth in Him shall have everlasting life." (John 3:16) It can't get any simpler than that. As long as you are following Christ's teachings -- i.e., as long as you trying to live a good, moral life and as long as you sincerely regret any errors or lapses -- that is enough. If you want complicated and irrational, look no further than Islam, with its detailed and arcane rules about how and when to pray, what to eat or drink, how to wash your hands, pilgrimage, fasting, sharia, etc.
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
	IP Logged

yuzasaf Starter Joined: 09 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Posted: 06 July 2008 at 4:44pm
	Freud talks about the infant's guilt already. Are the old man, in who there are not desires,, hormones guilty?
	IP Logged

minuteman Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1642	Posted: 06 July 2008 at 7:01pm
	Ron, I will not quote. Your reply is more near to truth. You have given a good reply. I will try to get back to you soon and only then I will give my opinion. Thanks.
	If any one is bad some one must suffer
	IP Logged

believer Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1397	Posted: 08 July 2008 at 9:02am
	Ron said-anyone who does not believe in Jesus will not have everlasting life. John 3 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. I understand this as those that don't believe that Jesus was sent as our saviour will be judged by the Law of GOD. Jesus was sent for the sinners, not the righteous. If you can follow ALL the Laws of GOD then you are ok. Another reason Jesus was sent- Through Jesus the Gentiles are grafted onto the roots of the Jews. Edited by believer - 08 July 2008 at 9:03am
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
	IP Logged

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