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Interfaith Dialogue
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believer
 
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 05 May 2008 at 5:12am
for the enemies of Jesus:
 
John 8
12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

 13The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."

 14Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

 19Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"

   "You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." 20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

 21Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come."

 22This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, 'Where I go, you cannot come'?"

 23But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be,[a] you will indeed die in your sins."

 25"Who are you?" they asked.

   "Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. 26"I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world."

 27They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him." 30Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him.

The Children of Abraham
 31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

 33They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants[b] and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

 34Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.[c]"

 39"Abraham is our father," they answered.

   "If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would[d] do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does."
      "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

 
John 10
22Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade. 24The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."

 25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."

 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

 34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

 40Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing in the early days. Here he stayed 41and many people came to him. They said, "Though John never performed a miraculous sign, all that John said about this man was true." 42And in that place many believed in Jesus.

 
LOL!!  He did not slaughter them as some religions teach.  He verbally scolded them.  Remember you can hate the sin and love the sinner, punnish the sinner and not kill the sinner.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 05 May 2008 at 3:03pm
beleiver,
let me ask you this before I go to explore each one of those quotes, which ones are from Jesus, the 100% man, and which ones he said as 100% God. I ask that since you have said once, that he was 100% man and 100% God.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 05 May 2008 at 3:03pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote relaxjack Replybullet Posted: 05 May 2008 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by believer

for the enemies of Jesus:
 LOL!!  He did not slaughter them as some religions teach.  He verbally scolded them.  Remember you can hate the sin and love the sinner, punnish the sinner and not kill the sinner.
1) How do you expect a leader with a small bunch of followers to 'slaughter' his enemies? Remember, the bible does not teach that Jesus was a statesman or military ruler. In the context of the bible, he was just a Messianic priest.
 
2) You have not replied my previous post where I have shown that the bible is not consistent in its message. The bible said that Jesus teach you to love your enemies during the Sermon of the Mount, but yet shows he verbally assaulted some of the Jews (his enemies) and condemned them to hell.
How do you love your enemies by condemning them to hell?
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 07 May 2008 at 7:26pm
You forget Jesus is GOD and GOD makes the rules for us to follow.    
 

An enemy to GOD would be one who is not righteous, possibly a follower of satan/devil-because of GOD's Holiness they can not be in the presence of GOD.

 
God hates treachery, violence, cruelty, callused hypocrisy all the things that knowingly destroy people, community, safety, trust, joy and innocence. 
 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 08 May 2008 at 9:22am
'believer' writes:
"You forget Jesus is GOD...."
believer you forgot, that is your un-established claim only.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 08 May 2008 at 9:26am
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote relaxjack Replybullet Posted: 09 May 2008 at 1:20am
Originally posted by believer

You forget Jesus is GOD and GOD makes the rules for us to follow.    
 

An enemy to GOD would be one who is not righteous, possibly a follower of satan/devil-because of GOD's Holiness they can not be in the presence of GOD.

 
God hates treachery, violence, cruelty, callused hypocrisy all the things that knowingly destroy people, community, safety, trust, joy and innocence. 
 
What the bible writers did was to make Jesus looks like a hypocrite:
 
hypocrite
      n 1: a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she
           does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings
           or motives [syn: hypocrite
 
1) How can Jesus tell his followers to love your enemies yet call his enemies by degradable names and condemned them to hell? Is that not a hypocrotical act?
 
2) btw, Christians believe Jesus was fully man and fully God (which was a contradiction in terms), and what Jesus was reported to have said in the bible would be construed as 'divine' commandments. The bible says Jesus  calls the Pharisees 'hypocrites' (Matt 6:2,5,16) but his action, according to the bible writers, makes him a hypocrite as well.
 
3) You do not see such contradictions in the Quran.
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 09 May 2008 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by relaxjack

1) How can Jesus tell his followers to love your enemies yet call his enemies by degradable names and condemned them to hell? Is that not a hypocrotical act?
I don't think so.  Have you never said angry words to someone you love?  As for condemning them to hell, I think Christians would tell you that it is their own actions that condemn them, not Jesus.
 
Personally, I've never understood why a loving God would create a horrible place like hell anyway, especially the God Himself causes people to disbelieve and go astray (see Sura 10:100, 14:4, etc.).
 
3) You do not see such contradictions in the Quran.
Oh, sure you do.  I don't want to digress, but just Google "Quran contradictions" and you'll find dozens, maybe hundreds.
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 10 May 2008 at 2:29am
"Oh, sure you do.  I don't want to digress, but just Google "Quran contradictions" and you'll find dozens, maybe hundreds."
 
I actually did just that and the sites I found had lists of verses that were interpreted incorrectly but no contradictions.
 
For example, one list stated that these are a contradiction:
 
17:23 Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour.
 
and
 
9:23 O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.
 
What is the contradiction here? You can be kind to your parents even if they are not Muslims without taking them for protectors.
 
Or:
 

79:27 What! Are ye the more difficult to create or the heaven (above)? ((Allah)) hath constructed it:


 

79:28 On high hath He raised its canopy, and He hath given it order and perfection.


 

79:29 Its night doth He endow with darkness, and its splendour doth He bring out (with light).


 

79:30 And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);

and
 
2:29 It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.
 
I'm not even sure what the contradiction is suppose to be here. That one mentions the earth first and one mentions the heavens first, but neither mention which Allah created first, just that He created both....
 
 
 
Perhaps you could point out what you feel is a true contradiction in the Quran.


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 10 May 2008 at 2:31am
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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