IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Did Muhammad condone lying?

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Ron Webb
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Topic: Did Muhammad condone lying?
Posted: 02 March 2008 at 3:25pm

On another web site, I found the following, presumably by a Muslim:

Our prophet (saw) said: "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies with these exceptions: During war because war is deception, to reconcile among two quarreling men, and for a man to appease his wife."

True or false? Can anyone tell me more about this?

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ak_m_f

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Posted: 02 March 2008 at 9:10pm

interesting....

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myahya

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Posted: 03 March 2008 at 1:24am

...

Edited by myahya

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martha

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Posted: 03 March 2008 at 2:33am

Ron,

I would also say that this has been written by an errant muslim. It is interesting that many justify lying as necessary or acceptable, to excuse them for their weaknesses or faults. I have heard from many muslims that it doesnt matter, it only means they will stay in hell a bit longer before being allowed paradise. If this is so, then we can assume that all our wrong doings will eventually allow us entry to Heaven.

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

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Angela
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Posted: 03 March 2008 at 3:14am

Ron,

I try to reference stuff like that at the USC MSA website.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/

If it sound fishy, check it out, they have a search engine you can find the exact reference if its a real hadith.

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martha

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Posted: 03 March 2008 at 3:57am

Ron, this is not exactly what you asked perhaps. But it does explain a little on lying in general,

Book 56, Number 56.7.15:

Malik related to me from Safwan ibn Sulaym that a man asked the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, "Can I lie to my wife, Messenger of Allah?" The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "There is no good in lying." The man said, "Messenger of Allah! Shall I make her a promise and tell her?" The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "It will not be held against you."

Book 56, Number 56.7.16:

Malik related to me that he heard that Abdullah ibn Masud used to say, "You must tell the truth. Truthfulness leads to right action. Right action leads to the Garden. Beware of lying. Lying leads to corruption, and corruption leads to the Fire. Don't you see that it is said, 'He speaks the truth and acts rightly,' and, 'He lies and is corrupt.' "

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

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minuteman

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Posted: 03 March 2008 at 10:50am

There may be something of that sort by the way of some Hadith. I am not sure. It is certain that it is not allowed to tell a lie even if it is necessary to save our own soul or to help our relatives. That is the right teaching of Islam.

But it is funny. People make up many things. There is one news circulating amongst the Muslims that Hazrat Ibraheem a.s. (Abraham) told lie three times in his life. Then they go to explain those three occasions when Abraham lied, as follows:

1. When his people asked him to go along with them for the religious festival to some mount, he said that he was ill. While he was not ill at all. In the absence of the pagan people, he broke all their idols except the big one. (That was in babylon).

2. When he was in Egypt with his wife sarah (who was very beautiful), he told his wife to tell every one that he was her brother. If she did not do that then the officials will kill him and take sarah away from him. If she said that he was a brother then they will not kill Abraham even though they may take sarah away from him.

3. I have presently forgotten the third lie (pardon). I cannot recall it right now.

May I say that all of these things are not true. Abraham never told any lie. There are good explanations for each case.

Similarly, there is no substance in the statement that it is allowed to lie in Islam.

If any one is bad some one must suffer

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 03 March 2008 at 5:07pm

I have done a bit of research myself and I don't think the original quote is legitimate. However, Muhammad did say this:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhar i/059.sbt.html#005.059.369

There are also many places where Muhammad says that "war is deception", which is true I guess but IMHO not a noble truth deserving be enshrined in holy scripture.

I guess the bottom line is, if we are at war against a Muslim nation, and they offer a truce, we should pretty much disregard the offer.

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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1402	Topic: Did Muhammad condone lying? Posted: 02 March 2008 at 3:25pm
	On another web site, I found the following, presumably by a Muslim: Our prophet (saw) said: "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies with these exceptions: During war because war is deception, to reconcile among two quarreling men, and for a man to appease his wife." True or false? Can anyone tell me more about this?
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ak_m_f Senior Member Joined: 15 October 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 3274	Posted: 02 March 2008 at 9:10pm
	interesting....
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myahya Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 222	Posted: 03 March 2008 at 1:24am
	... Edited by myahya
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martha Senior Member Joined: 30 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1141	Posted: 03 March 2008 at 2:33am
	Ron, I would also say that this has been written by an errant muslim. It is interesting that many justify lying as necessary or acceptable, to excuse them for their weaknesses or faults. I have heard from many muslims that it doesnt matter, it only means they will stay in hell a bit longer before being allowed paradise. If this is so, then we can assume that all our wrong doings will eventually allow us entry to Heaven.
	some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
	IP Logged

Angela Female Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2555	Posted: 03 March 2008 at 3:14am
	Ron, I try to reference stuff like that at the USC MSA website. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/ If it sound fishy, check it out, they have a search engine you can find the exact reference if its a real hadith.
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martha Senior Member Joined: 30 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1141	Posted: 03 March 2008 at 3:57am
	Ron, this is not exactly what you asked perhaps. But it does explain a little on lying in general, Book 56, Number 56.7.15: Malik related to me from Safwan ibn Sulaym that a man asked the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, "Can I lie to my wife, Messenger of Allah?" The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "There is no good in lying." The man said, "Messenger of Allah! Shall I make her a promise and tell her?" The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "It will not be held against you." Book 56, Number 56.7.16: Malik related to me that he heard that Abdullah ibn Masud used to say, "You must tell the truth. Truthfulness leads to right action. Right action leads to the Garden. Beware of lying. Lying leads to corruption, and corruption leads to the Fire. Don't you see that it is said, 'He speaks the truth and acts rightly,' and, 'He lies and is corrupt.' "
	some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
	IP Logged

minuteman Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1642	Posted: 03 March 2008 at 10:50am
	There may be something of that sort by the way of some Hadith. I am not sure. It is certain that it is not allowed to tell a lie even if it is necessary to save our own soul or to help our relatives. That is the right teaching of Islam. But it is funny. People make up many things. There is one news circulating amongst the Muslims that Hazrat Ibraheem a.s. (Abraham) told lie three times in his life. Then they go to explain those three occasions when Abraham lied, as follows: 1. When his people asked him to go along with them for the religious festival to some mount, he said that he was ill. While he was not ill at all. In the absence of the pagan people, he broke all their idols except the big one. (That was in babylon). 2. When he was in Egypt with his wife sarah (who was very beautiful), he told his wife to tell every one that he was her brother. If she did not do that then the officials will kill him and take sarah away from him. If she said that he was a brother then they will not kill Abraham even though they may take sarah away from him. 3. I have presently forgotten the third lie (pardon). I cannot recall it right now. May I say that all of these things are not true. Abraham never told any lie. There are good explanations for each case. Similarly, there is no substance in the statement that it is allowed to lie in Islam.
	If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1402	Posted: 03 March 2008 at 5:07pm
	I have done a bit of research myself and I don't think the original quote is legitimate. However, Muhammad did say this: Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhar i/059.sbt.html#005.059.369 There are also many places where Muhammad says that "war is deception", which is true I guess but IMHO not a noble truth deserving be enshrined in holy scripture. I guess the bottom line is, if we are at war against a Muslim nation, and they offer a truce, we should pretty much disregard the offer.
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