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General Islamic Matter
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : General Islamic Matter
Message Icon Topic: WHAT IS KUFR?????(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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yrret1976
 
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bullet Posted: 09 March 2008 at 7:49pm

This is what the evil death cult of Islam wishes to bring to the whole world. It is already in Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, And the Islamic paradise called, SOMALIA. And Muslims are trying to force this evil law on many more nations. Egypt is one. As it is, the Copts there are treated worse than dirt.

Under Sharia law non-Muslims may be subjected to Sharia Laws however it codifies the treatment of dhimnis in relation to the Muslim state and in cases of over-lapping jurisdiction. Dhimmis are distinctly second-class citizens in that they cannot serve in public office, cannot testify in court and must follow certain rules meant for living on Muslim land and under Muslim protection (such as paying the jizya). The jizya is a tax on non Muslims. The rules include privilege to practice their own religion, except for public demonstration of non-Muslim religious practices and the right to convert Muslims.

The jizya originates in the Qur'an which says “Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of the truth among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Qu'ran 9.29 \

Feel them selves subdued! Otherwise know they are beat. And that they have no hope of ever rising about their horrible conditions, imposed upon them, unless they renounce their religion and become muslims.  This is what Islam wish to impose on many nations, and eventually the whole world.  Pay the jizya.  A tax imposed upon all non muslims.  Yet the rest of the world, must bend over backwards to placate the muslims living among them. Two faced hypocrites. If you think this is wrong leave this vile and evil cult, of us verses them. Mohammed spoke lies. He prayed to the 3 goddesses, till he realized he just might have more trouble forcing jews and christians to convert, so he said he was decieved by satan.  satan was the boss of Mohammed. And still operates freely in the Mosques of Islam.

www.faithfreedom.org

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seekshidayath
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bullet Posted: 09 March 2008 at 11:48pm

Originally posted by Jamal Morelli

So - the wrap up...
All non-muslims burn in hellfire.

Brother, just to make it clear, that those non-muslims who have n't  heard of Islam earlier - its a different issue - there are different views over it. On the whole we can only say - Wallahu Alam .

In these days, its almost impossible to say that anyone does n't know of Islam. Everyone must have heard of it.  Even after knowing the truth { Islam } when one rejects it then certainly he is abided to the hell-fire eternally. He is a kafir.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Angela
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bullet Posted: 10 March 2008 at 3:09am
Originally posted by seekshidayath

In these days, its almost impossible to say that anyone does n't know of Islam. Everyone must have heard of it.  Even after knowing the truth { Islam } when one rejects it then certainly he is abided to the hell-fire eternally. He is a kafir.



But, what Islam are they exposed to....

Sure, every American post 9-11 has heard the word Islam.  But what have they seen?  The media here isn't accurate on Islamic beliefs. 

Islam does not have missionaries, they don't actually do community outreach in a way that get the information out there.

Really MUSLIMS are failing ISLAM by not spreading it by education.  People have heard of Islam and Muhammed, but what do they see.  Protesters calling for the death of Cartoonists and Teachers with Teddy Bears.  They see suicide bombers, beheadings and hear the Quran and Sunnah quoted to justify these things.

Frankly, I have watched it even here on this very moderate site.  I watched an entire argument using Sunnah and Quran to justify killing people who insult the Prophet.

There are many many reasons why rational believing people don't bother looking any further into Islam and therefore reject it.  Its the behavior of its so-called adherents. 

The Bible says ...

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

When you watch the Sunni/Shia conflicts and the way that those who call for Jihad behave, many Christians think of this verse.

So, who is responsible for these people rejecting Islam....it is not Islam's fault.  Its not even the fault of the people rejecting it.  Its the fault of every Muslim who defiles the name of Islam with their actions and ever Muslim who fails to honestly teach his religion to others.

Look at Yvonne Ridley, do you think she would have accepted Islam if the Clerics hadn't given her a chance to learn?  They could have killed her for any number of crimes under Islam, but they offered her a chance to convert.  When she said she didn't know enough to convert but promised to learn, they let her go.  And now she's Muslim.  But, what about Nicholas Berg, Daniel Pearl?  What about all of those who have lost someone in the jihads?  We're not talking military deaths here, I'm talking about civilians on buses or in market places.

Before coming here, I sent a request to CAIR for a free Quran.  3 years later, I still have not received one.  Yet a caring sister in England sent me one with Tasfir attached to it. 

When I mentioned I had it, there were several women in the sisters section that objected to my even having it since it has the arabic in it.   This is why people reject Islam....

I think Muslims have a long way before they can judge others for accepting or rejecting their faith.
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Hayfa
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bullet Posted: 10 March 2008 at 7:14am
Angela: I agree.
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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seekshidayath
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bullet Posted: 10 March 2008 at 6:56pm

Hi Angela,

I can understand your anguish.Before getting into the topic and i forget again to ask ,  you of Sis Herjihad. She is n't seen since many days. I guess she is your friend na. You must be knowing of her. Hope everything is fine with her.

Coming to your post

I can understand your anguish. I agree you post but partially.  Let me remind you that all muslims are n't as you potrayed them. There are black sheeps in every community. I cannot blame christianity for what Hitler did or Bush has done. Like wise there are few muslims in our community too. That does n;t mean all the of them are so. But yes, you have pointed weaknesses of we muslims. I do agree with it. The problem is most of our muslims are n't practicing muslims. We are either very rigid or too flexible that we take religion with ease and practice only when we wish or mould the verses to our own moods.

I feel we are to convert ourselves first. The reason being of the state of muslims today is, we are n't sticking to Quran and Sunnah. We are attracted towards materialism. Most of us have limited Islam only till mosques. Every muslim holds his responsibility of being in the folds of Islam, but he has forgotten it. So do i say, never judge a car by its inexperienced driver. We cannot judge Islam by most of the muslims today as they hold weak faith. We say, if you are to study Islam, go thru the Quran. Lack of proper knowledge, no implementation of the possessed knowledge, no personal conviction towards ISlam, are few reasons for the state of muslims today.

BUTTTTT, we cannot blame only muslims for non-muslims being away from Islam today. NO. There are many whom Islam was intrested thru muslims.Even those who hated Islam and tried to defame Islam, entered into the folds of Islam. Did this 9/11 incident not rise up curiosity about Islam , in the whole world ? Even when they are exposed to wrong Islamic beliefs , but still 1000s entered into Islam. This Issue of cartoon, did it not made them read of Prophet Muhammad ? I don't say that these incidents shud recur . NO. The more Islam was tried to be suppressed the more it spread. I do agree that we are n't into dawah as christian missionaries are. We do not force people to enter in our religion as do these christain missionaries do. We do  not show them monetary beneifts to enter Islam. We don't use other ways like to hypnote them. We did not start up anti sites as other missionaries did ? Yes, we are behind  ANyways

Finally, i would like to say that inspite of our weaknesses , we are n't that bad as been potrayed. Yes, we shall be questioned of being careless in conveying our message, at the same time non-muslims are n't spared for this reason. For Allah swt says, that he had given them the senses of reasoning, gatherring information and get into conclusions.  When they gather this information , then there is conscience within him that shall which does check him and encourages doing good and abstains him from wrong. Anyways, all i can say is, Allah swt knows the best and He deals with Justice to all of us.



Edited by seekshidayath
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Angela
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bullet Posted: 10 March 2008 at 11:50pm
Herjihad is having difficulties which I am not at liberty to discuss.  However, internet access is extremely hard for her right now.  That's as much as I am at liberty to say since she is a very humble woman and wouldn't want people worried about her.
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seekshidayath
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bullet Posted: 11 March 2008 at 12:15am

Thank you Angela.

May Allah swt, ease her days , bestow patience and courage with peace of mind  to face these tests from Allah .and  convey our greetings to her. Insha-Allah, she shall join us soon. We shall surely pray for her.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Angela
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bullet Posted: 11 March 2008 at 1:08am
Originally posted by seekshidayath

NO. The more Islam was tried to be suppressed the more it spread. I do agree that we are n't into dawah as christian missionaries are. We do not force people to enter in our religion as do these christain missionaries do. We do  not show them monetary beneifts to enter Islam. We don't use other ways like to hypnote them. We did not start up anti sites as other missionaries did ? Yes, we are behind  ANyways



Seeks,

First off, I agree that Muslims aren't what they are portrayed to be.  Neither are Mormons.  This is something our faiths have in common.  There are more anti sites than pro sites.

The benefit that my church has is that we have 52,000 missionaries in the field and we are small faith of 13 million.  Can you imagine what missionaries the Muslim faith could muster?

Missionary work is not about coercion and blackmail.  In fact, my church goes out of its way to separate its charity work and its missionary work.  When the Tsunami happened, we sent our donations through an Islamic Charity so there would be no strings attached.

True missionary work can be done by every person.  Its inviting people to learn.  Have a copy of the Quran in English (or the local tongue) on hand to give to someone you think might be interested.  Invite people to Jummah or to an Eid dinner.  Organize youngsters to do community service and volunteerism.  Its about giving people a chance to view your faith as it should be.

Why do the anti-Muslim sites succeed so well, because they are noisy.  The trick to defeating that noise is to make more positive noise.  A humble goat farmer isn't news, 10000 protesters burning cars and embassies is news.

Change happens when people not only live their religion but share it.  I have 4 Books of Mormon on hand in my house for the express purpose of give away.  I know that giving someone that Book can change a life like it did me. 

The sister who gave me the Quran did the same thing. She knew if I never read the Quran I would have no way of really understanding Islam or having a real chance at accepting it.  She didn't just leave it at that.  She speaks with me and encourages me to pray.  She knows that I have a husband I don't want to leave.  She offers to speak to him.  This is missionary work.  She's not forcing us and if I ask, we talk about other things. 

I don't like the Christian Missionaries who hold charity back for converts.  That isn't what Christianity teaches.  Jesus accepted the outcasts without judgment or question.  But, that doesn't mean that missionary work is bad.

Our missionaries spend 2 years of their lives dedicated to only one thing, spreading the message.  These young men and women have doors slammed in their faces, insults hurled at them and live in meager conditions for two years.  But, I don't know a single one that would trade that experience.  My husband is a returned missionary (or RM in the lingo) and he talks about how hard it was to tract in downtown Cleveland and in strong anti-mormon areas.  However, that ONE baptism that he was part of is his joy.  The young couple that coverted were baptized and married.

Two missionaries entered my in-laws home 35 years ago.  Now, they have affected 3 generations of Daleys, two more missionaries have returned, my youngest brother-in-law is preparing for his and so many other blessings have happened because of their work.

Being a missionary isn't just about that one person.  You may expose one man or one woman to Islam, but you are affecting so much more.  You are affecting their future and the future of their family. 

Think how you could be helping that man's daughters and sons or even his parents.  My Father-in-laws parents converted AFTER my inlaws did. 

I think what keeps people away from strong religions like Islam and my own is misinformation by the media and those who would lie and twist things for their own ends.  Of course, those people also bear responsibility but if as a Mormon woman I am drinking, swearing and being disrespectful, then I'm not really a Mormon am I.

This is the same with those who resort to violence and call for more violence.  Who's going to get more press?  But, who is there to change the perceptions? 
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