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General Islamic Matter
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : General Islamic Matter
Message Icon Topic: WHAT IS KUFR?????(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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Truth_light24
 
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 5:44am
Assalamo Alaykum Wr Wb.

Brother Minuteman, what is your definition of "Kaffir" and how, in your own understanding, a man become a "Muslim"..?? Maybe in here we have differences because I have seen many of your postings a it does make sense to me...except this one. So please enlighten us?

And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
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minuteman
 
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 6:26am

 

 Thanks for asking. I believe that a kaafir is the one to whom the message of islam ahs been given in a very good peaceful way. He understands the message but decides not to accept it. Then  he feels that he should oppose that message. So he goes around trying to work against that peaceful message of Islam and tries even to spend his money and time to annihilate the message  of islam. He also is ready to persecute the Muslims and ready to go to war against them.

 I cannot fully present the picture of a kaafir here. Please just think that enmity is one good word to describe a kaafir. That is the enmity of Islam. If there is no enmity of Islam then he is not  a kaafir. Let him be anything. He will not be a Kaafir. Of course he is a disbeliever but not a simple disbeliever. He is an antagonist working against islam.

 I have said that Abu Jehl was a good example of a Kaafir. Also, all those people who fought wars against the prophet s.a.w.s. and opposed his message were all kaafirs. Such a person could be one of the Jews and Hindus too. But not all Jews and Hindus enblock are kaafirs.

It needs an intention to work against Islam that makes a Kaafir. If there is no such intention to harm Islam then he is not a Kaafir. He is thena simple nonbeliever (Ghair momin).

Will you please let me know if I have described the kaafir now? I request all friends here to think over these things and follow what ever they think is right. No need to agree to me at all.



Edited by minuteman
If any one is bad some one must suffer
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martha
 
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 6:33am

( Decided to delete the original post completely.)

minuteman, thanks for your comments.

 



Edited by martha
some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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minuteman
 
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 6:47am

 

 I have made slight changes in my last posts (corrections). Please see them too. Thanks. In the meantime, I am preparing my understanding of the verse 2:62 in reply to Seeks. Soon Insha Allah.

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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minuteman
 
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 7:40am

 

 

This verse (2:62) was presented by some one on a Shia forum. I had given the usual reply as per my understanding. But a senior member told me that I was wrong. He told me the same meaning as have been described by Seeks. It meant that this news of no fear is for the Jews of the old times that was before the prophet s.a.w.s. I had no option but to think over and accept it. It is felt that most of the Muslims also believe that the benefit of good news of no fear is not applicable to the present day Jews and Christians. They have to accept Islam to avail of this advantage. That is the general understanding.

 

 They say that every one has to become a Muslim to have no fear of the future. That means the good news of no fear is not there for the present day Jews and Christians. They have to accept Islam to have no fear and no grief.

 But the verse does not say that it is about the old time Jews and Christians. It was such an important issue that it should not have been left in doubt at all. Why is that?

 The translation they use is approximately as follows:

“Those who had been Momin and Those who had been Jews and Christians and Sabians, whoever believed in Allah and the last day and did good deeds, their reward will be with their Lord and they will have no fear and will not be grieved…”

But the verse says, “Those who are believers and those who are Jews and Christians…. Whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good deeds…..”

 Remember that Momineen or Muslims are included in all this. And the Jews and the Christians, whoever believes in Allah. That means only the atheists are excluded. That is the benefit of mercy of the attribute Al-Raheem of Allah.

 The Mercy of Allah “ Al-Raheem” is for all believers, be they Muslims or Jews or Christians. The attribute Rehman is for all living things, man and animal of all sorts, believers and disbelievers of all sorts including birds and beasts.

 The mercy of Al-Raheem is for all believers who pray to their God. That is only for mankind not for animals. The Jews and Christians are believers. Even though they do not believe in the prophet Muhammad but they are believers in a God. They deserve something.

On top of all that, there is a condition of belief in the hereafter and a condition of good deeds. What is there to stop them from benefiting from the mercy of Allah! They will believe and do good deeds and they will come closer to Islam in that way. What harm is there to Islam! There is a very important message in this verse to all people of the world that any one who will believe in a God and last day and will do good deeds will benefit. It also means that only those who create mischief will suffer. There is no fear for any of the good peaceful working people of any faith.

 That is the universal good message of peace to all nations. Remember that Muslims are included in this message. If the Jews and Christians of present day were not to benefit from it then why they are specially mentioned in this verse?? I feel that it is a good message of peace to all believers and they are exhorted to do good and not to oppose Islam in any way. That is all that is required for peaceful spread of Islam in the world.

 In that way, all the believers of all religions would come half way closer to Islam. What else do we need? The prophet s.a.w.s. did not need any trouble. He had not come to create any trouble or to present a biased religion. He was working for peace and the name of the religion is Islam. There is a message of love and peace and salvation for every one.

 



Edited by minuteman
If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Truth_light24
 
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 5:13pm
Mr.Minuteman:
 

The term “Kafer” is an Arabic word that linguistically means the one who hides something and covers it”. But in technical terms, the “Kafer” is one who doesn’t believe in Allah or who believes in Allah but denies some of what Allah has ordered him to believe in such as: disbelieving in any of the Prophets (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon them all) or denying the existence of the resurrection or the like and has in addition to that declared his disbelief (Disbelieving in 6 Articles of faith and 5 pillars of Islam).

The Qu'ran uses the word Kufr to denote people who cover up or hide realities. The Qu'ran uses this word to identify those who denied Allah's favors by not accepting His Dominion and Authority.

In my view the word kufr is the same as a Christian calling someone a heathen. It is not a label to denote non-believer as a slur.



And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
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seekshidayath
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 5:48pm
Your reply is mixed up. You have said that neighbor is a kafir. In the end you said that even if he is a kafir I should deal well with him.... I cannot understand you. Please see your words:

Answering to your question , "Is he a Kaafir". Yes , he is.

 It does n't mean when he is a kafir, that we do not share our foods with them, or hate them. Just move on and be mindful of Islam too.

 What you are trying to convey to me is a dual carriage. Please understand that Islam is not limited to your standards. I shall Insha Allah get back soon to all of your post. I do not agree that peaceful Jews and christians and hindus are kafirs.. Also, not all those who have not accepted Islam, are kafirs. Kafir will only be the one who is active in damaging the message of Islam.

Minuteman, all your posts above implicate that you have totally a wrong idea of the word kafir in your mind. Making it more simple, kafir is a term which is called as non-muslim in english. And you have complete wrong understanding of dealing with them. Insha-Allah, if time permits i shall try to explain you. Till then do let me know, from your understanding, {unpeaceful non-muslims are kaafirs}, as how to deal with them. And do let me know, how did you get this understanding of the word Kafir, that those who damage Islam are kafirs.



Edited by seekshidayath
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Truth_light24
 
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 6:02pm

2:61. “And (remember) when you said, "O Műsa (Moses)! We cannot endure one kind of food. So invoke your Lord for us to bring forth for us of what the earth grows, its herbs, its cucumbers, its Fűm (wheat or garlic), its lentils and its onions." He said, "Would you exchange that which is better for that which is lower? Go you down to any town and you shall find what you want!" And they were covered with humiliation and misery, and they drew on themselves the Wrath of Allâh. That was because they used to disbelieve the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh and killed the Prophets wrongfully. That was because they disobeyed and used to transgress the bounds (in their disobedience to Allâh, i.e. commit crimes and sins).

2 - 62.” Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians (Sabi'in), whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve”

This ayah stating the condition of the earlier nation in the eye of Allah, those who were righteous and obedient received the rewards for their good deeds. This verse talk about the Jews, Christians and Sabians, those who believe and follow the true teachings of their prophets during their time - following the apostle before the advent of Prophet Muhammad. This verse doesn’t talk about the people after the Prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh).

And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
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