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Message Icon Topic: WHAT IS KUFR?????(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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seekshidayath
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bullet Posted: 29 February 2008 at 9:12pm

 According to Seeks, any one who does not believe that Miswaak is essential is also a Kaafir. If this principle is followed then we will have many kaafirs around us, almost all the Ummah will be some kind of kaafir.

My dear brother, I hope you agree that Kufr means disbelief. Lets continue with the same example of Miswaak. Suppose if a muslim, knows that it is sunnah to use Miswak, but does not practice it because of some reasons like carelessness etc, then it is not Kufr, but weakness of faith. But if he rejects this sunnah, saying that why shud i practice it ---or deny it -- etc then it is Kufr. Hope you did understand this concept. One who rejects Quran and sunnah, and disbelieves it then he is also commiting kufr, though he shall still be under the folds of Islam. Such muslims are either called faasiq or faajir.

 I have examined the verse 3:85. There is nothing about Kufr there and no word of Kufr is there. That verse only states that if any one will present (or adopt) any religion other than Islam, it will not be acceptable to Allah

 Its just below this verse {85}, refer verse 86

 "How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and after they bore witness that the Messenger is true and after clear proofs came to them And Allah guides not the people who are wrongdoers" - These type of people are kaafir.

That is, willing disregard of Islam and disbelief and opposition to Islam to up root it, That is Kufr.

That is also a type a kufr. Not the only Kufr. As explained in the notes above, even we muslims commit kufr. Did you notice that brother.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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minuteman
 
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bullet Posted: 29 February 2008 at 10:10pm

 

 [3:85] And whoso seeks a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him, and, in the Hereafter he shall be among the losers.

[3:86] How shall Allah guide a people who have disbelieved after believing and who had borne witness that the messenger was true and to whom clear proofs had come? And Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
[3:87] As for such - their reward is that on them shall be the curse of Allah and of angels and of men, all together.
[3:88] They shall abide thereunder. Their punishment shall not be lightened nor shall they be reprieved.
[3:89] Except those who repent thereafter and amend. And surely Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[3:90] Surely, those who disbelieve after they have believed and then increase in their disbelief, their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they who have gone astray.
[3:91] As for those who have disbelieved, and die while they are disbelievers, there shall not be accepted from anyone of them even the earth-full of gold though he offer it as ransom. It is these for whom shall be a grievous punishment, and they shall have no helpers.

 Please see the verses of the Surah Aal Imran, above. Read them. They are only referring to the people of the books. These verses are about the Jews and the christians.  I do not believe that  the Jews and the Christians are Kaafirs. They are a separate category called Ahle Kitab. Not all of them are Kaafir.

 Only those who oppose the religion of Islam with time,money and weapons are Kaafir. They are those people who had bellieved and then later they disbelieved and increased in their disbelief. That is something serious. That is Kufr.

It is true that the Kufr starts from mere disbelief. The first step is disbelief i.e. not agreeing to the message. But if the person stops at that, it maybe alright. He says that he does not understand Islam and he does not believe in Islam. That is alright.

 But if he enters into another field of not believing and not allowing any one to believe, i.e. not allowing any peace to the believers, that is Kufr. That is enmity with Islam. I had posted that Abu jehl is a good example of a Kaafir. So is Al Shaitaan, the dare devil. Inna Hu lakum A'aduwwum Mubeen.  (Also see verse 12:5). The dare devil is a manifest enemy of mankind. The word A'aduw (enemy) is there with that kaafir (al shaitaan).

 

 More in next post,soon.



Edited by minuteman
If any one is bad some one must suffer
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minuteman
 
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bullet Posted: 29 February 2008 at 10:50pm

 

 Also, please try to remember the time of the prophet s.a.w.s. in Makkah and  Madinah. There were believers (Momineen) and dis-believers (non-Momineen) and Mushrikeen and Munkireen and kaafireen and people of the books. There were many Mushrikeen, nearly all of them. But not all of them were Kaafir.

There was a person of Makkah who fully armed in company with his sons, came to the help of the prophet s.a.w.s. when the prophet was returning from his mission to Taif (hill station 86 Km from Makkah). He wanted to enter his city (Makkah) and needed help and support (cover) to enter. The prophet sent a message to that good man for permission and support to enter the city of Makkah in peace. That person (I forget the name) responded to the call of the prophet s.a.w.s. He was not a believer (Momin). Would you say that he was a kaafir? Also, would you say that the prophet s.a.w.s. would ask help from a kaafir??

 Also, about the christian king of Ethopia, north Afrika. He was not a Momin. He had never heard about Islam. He helped the oppressed migrant Muslims of Makkah. When the lords of Makkah went to Ethopia to claim the custody of those migrants, the non-momin king did not allow to give up those Muslim refugees. He had not believed in Muhammad s.a.w.s. According to you that king must have been a kaafir (at least at that time). Please try to understand that a Kaafir is a non-believer, a strict non-believer, rather an enemy of the believers.

 That is what I read and see in the Quran. I do not suggest the other friends to agree to me. They can believe what they like. I will also come over to their side when i am convinced that every one disagreeing slightly with the religion is a kaafir. Good-Bye, but keep trying to help me about who is really a kaafir.

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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minuteman
 
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bullet Posted: 29 February 2008 at 10:54pm

 

 Let us say, I am living in Germany or India. MY next door neighbor is a christian or a Hindu. Surely, he is non-believer (non-momin). He is a good neighbor. His relations with me are excellent. So is his general morale. He has never uttered the Kalimah Shahadah.

But he is not my enemy and I do not see him active against my religion i.e. Islam. He is busy with his own daily affairs and practices his own religious rituals. He is otherwise a completely peaceful person.

I ask you "Is he a Kaafir?" and should I deal with him as with a kaafir? Please help.



Edited by minuteman
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mariyah
 
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 2:15am
Asalaamu alaikum:
So according to your definitions, a christian or Jew is considered Kuffar because they do not suscribe to Islam. Pray tell me then, why would such a thing be stated in this Ayat in Sura 2?

Al-Baqara (The Cow)

2:62 VERILY, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians <>Asad(2,49)[49] -all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. <>Asad(2,50)[50]


Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Believers:on them is no fear nor shall they grieve] [Believers:rewarded] [Christians:believers rewarded] [Fear ( none for the Righteous ):or for Believers] [Jews:among them some believe] [People of the Book:among them are those who believe] [Sabians]

Inna allatheena amanoo waallatheena hadoo waalnnasara waalssabieena man amana biAllahi waalyawmi alakhiri waAAamila salihan falahum ajruhum AAinda rabbihim wala khawfun AAalayhim wala hum yahzanoona

إِنَّ الَّذِين 14; آمَنُواْ وَ الَّذِين 14; هَادُواْ وَالنَّص 14;ارَى وَال ;صَّابِئِ 610;نَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّه 16; وَالْيَو 18;مِ الآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ &# 1589;َالِحاً فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُ 05;ْ عِندَ رَبِّهِم 18; وَلاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِ 05;ْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُ 08;نَ
"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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seekshidayath
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 3:03am

As'Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu,

First of all let me clear that Kafir is n't a word of abuse, as most of  think so. It is a term used for disbelievers. We need to call them or saluate them by it.

Coming to the verse sis Maryah wished  to be discussed

2 - 62. Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians (Sabi'in), whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve

Sister, before going to that verse, lets us go thru the gyst of the verse 61 in which Allah  described the condition  and punishment  of those who defy His commands, fall into His prohibitions and transgress set limits by committing prohibited acts and then in this verse Allah  stated that the earlier nations who were righteous and obedient received the rewards for their good deeds. This shall be the case, until the Day of Judgment.

Those Jews and christians before the Prophethood of Muhammad {Sallal lahu Alahi wasallam}, who believed in One God and did righteous deeds are rewarded and for such followers is the good news. You must be knowing that there were no Prophets or messengers  between Isa AS and Muhammad {sallal lahu alaihi wa sallam} It is referred to those Jews , christians and Sabians.

Here am refering to the Tafseer {commentary} wherein  Ali bin Abi Talhah narrated from Ibn `Abbas, was asked about this verse.He said that this verse {of which we were discussing}  was revealed first and then , "And whoever seeks religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers" was revealed. This was final and clear Allah does not accept any deed or work from anyone, unless it conforms to the Law of Muhammad that is, after Allah sent Muhammad . Before that, every person who followed the guidance of his own Prophet was on the correct path, following the correct guidance and was saved.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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seekshidayath
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 3:47am
[QUOTE=minuteman]

 Let us say, I am living in Germany or India.

{ Brother we assume you to be in Germany, Aap wahi'n teek ho  }

 MY next door neighbor is a christian or a Hindu. Surely, he is non-believer (non-momin). He is a good neighbor. His relations with me are excellent. So is his general morale. He has never uttered the Kalimah Shahadah.

But he is not my enemy and I do not see him active against my religion i.e. Islam. He is busy with his own daily affairs and practices his own religious rituals. He is otherwise a completely peaceful person.

I ask you "Is he a Kaafir?" and should I deal with him as with a kaafir? Please help.

Brother, at first we need to make it clear in our minds that Kaafir is n't a term of abuse. Why do we picture that they are our enemies or we are there enemies.  Does Islam not teach us to be good to even non-muslims. Even if your neighbour is bad to you, be good to him. There are many incidents during Prophet Muhammad {sallal lahu alaihi wasallam} which teach us to be good  and kind to them. Quran also conveys the same message. We are  n't to hate them.


Answering to your question , "Is he a Kaafir". Yes , he is. Am sure , he must have heard of  our Prophet { Whole world knows this personality now}. Does he not dis-believe. If suppose an American works  in an Arab country, but still is he  not stated as " a non-Arab". Do they call him Arab ? No ! Similarly, kafir is n't term of  any sort of abuse, but used for disbelievers. Hope you understood.

 You shud deal with him kindly and honestly. If you really care of him so much, try to convey the teachings of Islam with Hikmah. When we try  our best to be a practicing muslim by following Quran and SUNNAH, he himself shall start up. For instance, if you start up by practicing sunnah of  beard, his impression that bearded men are wrong or terrorist shall wipe out, because you are kind to him and good to him as before. He shall them slowly ask  you questions pertaining to Islam. You can then explain him and deal with  hikmah. 

It does n't mean when he is a kafir, that we do not share our foods with them, or hate them. Just move on and be mindful of Islam too.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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minuteman
 
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bullet Posted: 01 March 2008 at 4:28am

 

 Your reply is mixed up. You have said that neighbor is a kafir. In the end you said that even if he is a kafir I should deal well with him.... I cannot understand you. Please see your words:

Answering to your question , "Is he a Kaafir". Yes , he is.

 It does n't mean when he is a kafir, that we do not share our foods with them, or hate them. Just move on and be mindful of Islam too.

 What you are trying to convey to me is a dual carriage. Please understand that Islam is not limited to your standards. I shall Insha Allah get back soon to all of your post. I do not agree that peaceful Jews and christians and hindus are kafirs.. Also, not all those who have not accepted Islam, are kafirs. Kafir will only be the one who is active in damaging the message of Islam.

Your interpretation of a Kaafir is just like your Haraam. As Haraam was an ordinary term (word) for you, so is your understanding of a Kaafir. It seems it is your sort of greetings or solutation to the non muslims. Who will believe you. Please see the meaning of your things. According to you all the hindus and christians and Jews and Budhists, all of them are Kaafir. I am surprised at your definition.

Please remember that I am forbidden to preach to any kaafir (verse 6 of ch.2). It has no effect and it is no use. That is the words of Quran. But you want me to think of my neighbor as a Kaafir and then at the same time I should start preaching to him. While he may have had quite a good dialogue with you already and may never listen to me.

 Your interpretation of the verse 2:62 is also not correct. But you have some scholar of Hadith as your backbone. I will restrain myself to the actual text of the Quran and if matter is not understood then we will look to some scholar. I am sure that you have perverted (spolied)  the good message of the verse 2:62. But let us discuss things in good faith. Thanks..Please no bad feelings.



Edited by minuteman
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