Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

General Islamic Matter
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : General Islamic Matter
Message Icon Topic: WHAT IS KUFR?????(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 19 Next >>
Author Message
Truth_light24
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 January 2008
Location: Philippines
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 270
bullet Posted: 10 April 2008 at 9:40pm

HAYFA

You are quick to label groupd of people. Each person should be judged as an individual.  As we should take each Muslim  as an individual.

I guess I am missing the point of this obsession with labels.

Take each person you meet as an indiviual. Leaving the judging to Allah.. And pray that they become Muslims. But it is Allah's hands. Allah knows all..

Maybe we should fix the Ummah.. many ills there let me tell you..

 

If you will only take huge time and re-read what I have written there, you will understand that I don’t judge, am not obsessed and am not labeling an individual. If to your understanding that stating what Allah said about those Jews and Christians are labeling, then that’s your own view.


You ask me to prove to you that those Jews and Christians do the deeds of SHIRK… well, I have proof and those proof can be read in those verses I posted from the Quran. Don’t you know that only Allah can know what is in the heart of an individual? That you can’t hide from Him? Quran as my proof is enough for me to believe  and I don’t have doubt in it.


Allah will surely judge us according to our intent and deeds. And Allah has given His criteria on how to judge us and that was written in the Quran. Those verses that I have posted are one of His criteria-NEVER ENGANGE IN KUFR AND SHIRK AND FOLLOW WHAT HE HAS REVEALED AND NEVER CONCEAL SOME TO MEET YOUR WHIMS AND DESIRE OR YOU WILL BE AMONG THE PEOPLE HE HAS CURSED..

I have exhausted what I think would explain the topic clearly with basis from the Quran and if people cant still understand it then that is their lot, for only Allah can guide an individual and I guess I will stop from here. May Allah give us more understanding to grasp His message and be among the people He bestow His Blessings and Mercy upon, ameen.

And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
IP IP Logged
minuteman
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 25 March 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1642
bullet Posted: 10 April 2008 at 9:53pm
  
 Imp87, please do not mix a Mushrik with a kaafir. We are discussing about the kaafir. My stand is that not every disbeliever is a kaafir. I am not discussing about any Mushrik. All Mushrik may not be kaafir. kaafir is an enemy of Islam.
 
 That matter should be discussed whether it is true or not. I however fully agree with you that we should be careful in calling every one as kaafir or Mushrik. These are very serious words.
 
 About the kaafir, it is the manifest enemy of Islam. If he is a hidden enemy of Islam then he may only be a namesake Momin who is known as Munaafiq. Munaafiq is hidden enemy (sitting within Muslims). The Kaafir is a clear enemy sitting outside the fold of Islam.
 
 Please let us leave the Mushrik out of this subject for the present discussion.
 
If any one is bad some one must suffer
IP IP Logged
Truth_light24
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 January 2008
Location: Philippines
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 270
bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 7:22am
O Allaah, show us the truth as truth and enable us to follow it; show us the false as false and enable us to avoid it. Guide us concerning disputed matters of truth by Your leave, for You guide Whomsoever You wish to the Straight Path..Ameen.
And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
IP IP Logged
Shasta'sAunt
Female  Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 29 March 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1930
bullet Posted: 11 April 2008 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by Hayfa

Yes but that does mean every Jewish person is a disbeliever...
You are quick to label groupd of people. Each person should be judged as an individual.  As we should take each Muslim  as an individual.
I guess I am missing the point of this obsession with labels.
Take each person you meet as an indiviual. Leaving the judging to Allah.. And pray that they become Muslims. But it is Allah's hands. Allah knows all..
Maybe we should fix the Ummah.. many ills there let me tell you..
 
 
I agree with you Sister.  We should fix ourselves first and let Allah judge everyone else.
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
IP IP Logged
believer
 
Guest Group
Guest Group


Joined: 08 January 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1397
bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 5:56am
Can someone answer my question about -are there righteous non -muslim men that can marry a muslim woman?
 
I have been told that the words between (  ) were not in the original Quran and added later.  Read it without those words!
 

3:68 Verily, among mankind who have the best claim to Ibrâhim are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who have believed. And Allâh is the Walî of the believers.

3:64 Say: "O people of the Scripture: Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered ."

2:62 Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allâh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

5:69 Surely, those who believe, those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, - whosoever believed in Allâh and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.”

5:65 And if only the people of the Scripture had believed  and warded off evil and had become Al­Muttaqûn We would indeed have blotted out their sins and admitted them to Gardens of pleasure.

5:66 And if only they had acted according to the Taurât  the Injeel, and what has been sent down to them from their Lord, they would surely have gotten provision from above them and from underneath their feet. There are from among them people who are on the right course, but many of them do evil deeds.

5:68 Say "O people of the Scripture! You have nothing till you act according to the Taurât, the Injeel, and what has  been sent down to you from your Lord." Verily, that which has been sent down to you from your Lord increases in many of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief. So be not sorrowful over the people who disbelieve. “

Mohammad/ Allah is scolding the people of the Scripture for not following their Scripture! 

Mohammad was seeing the immoral behavior of the people even when they had the WORD of God- sad the immoral behavior is still with us today!!  ALL are sinners, not one of us righteous enough to be with GOD in heaven/paradise!


Edited by believer - 12 April 2008 at 5:58am
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
IP IP Logged
Truth_light24
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 January 2008
Location: Philippines
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 270
bullet Posted: 12 April 2008 at 6:44am

2:6 Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.

2:7. Allâh has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allâh's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.

2:8. And of mankind, there are some (hypocrites) who say: "We believe in Allâh and the Last Day" while in fact they believe not.

2:9. They (think to) deceive Allâh and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!

2:10. In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allâh has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies.

2:11. And when it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "We are only peacemakers."

2:12. Verily! They are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive not.

And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59
IP IP Logged
believer
 
Guest Group
Guest Group


Joined: 08 January 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1397
bullet Posted: 13 April 2008 at 6:41am

Yes there were Christians then and even today that say they believe in GOD, but you would never recognize them.  YHWH does not like hypocrites!

I do not believe that YHWH would increase a person's doubt and hypocrisy.  Why would He when He does not like hypocrites?  Man is way too good at doing this on his own!!
 

Matthew 6

 1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

 2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

Matthew 23
13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
 
15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.


Edited by believer - 13 April 2008 at 6:42am
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
IP IP Logged
believer
 
Guest Group
Guest Group


Joined: 08 January 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1397
bullet Posted: 23 April 2008 at 7:47pm

Have you seen this article?

 
The Quran states the following: INNA ALLADHIINA KAFARU SWAA ON ALAYHIM ANDHARTAHUM AM LAM TUNDHIRHUM LA YUMINOON, (Quran 2: 7).

Muslim commentators render the following interpretation: ‘God hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they incur. As those who reject the faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe’ (translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali). The translator renders the following interpretation:

‘Kafara, kufr, kafir, are derivative forms of the word, imply a deliberate rejection of Faith as opposed to a mistaken idea of God or faith, which is not inconsistent with an earnest desire to see the truth. Where there is such desire, the grace and mercy of God gives guidance. But that guidance is not efficacious when it is deliberately rejected, and the possibility of rejection follows from the grant of free will. The consequence of the rejection is that the spiritual faculties become dead to impervious to better influence. The roots kafara has many shades of meaning: (1) to deny God’s goodness, to be ungrateful. (2) To reject Faith, deny His revelation. (3)To blaspheme, to ascribe some limitation or attribute to God, which is derogatory to His nature. In a translation, one shade or another must be put forward according to the context, but all are implied’. (See Abdullah Yusuf Commetary on the Glorious Qur’an, numbers 30 and 93).

The Quranic word ‘kafara’, which is interpreted in modern days as ‘infidel’, does not necessarily mean ‘to reject faith’. Aramaic ‘kfr’ means ‘the price of life, ransom’. Akkadian “kaparu” means ‘wipe off, redemption, ransom’. In the book of Exodus we read the following: ‘If a ransom is imposed on the owner’ (Exod. 21: 30. NRSV). Paying ransom for life was a form of taxes. It was a natural obligation on individuals to buy protection for their lives. During the time of Moses, God imposed a ransom on each Israelite, the Bible reads: ‘The Lord spoke to Moses: When you take a census of the Israelites to register them, at registration all of them shall give a (kfr) ransom for their lives to the Lord, so that no plague may come upon them for being registered’ (Exod. 30: 11. NRSV. Biblia Hebraica).

‘kfr’ also means ‘ransom for sin offering’ as stated in the Biblia Hebraica: ‘Throughout your generations he shall perform the atonement for it once a year with the blood of the atoning ‘kfr’ sin offering. It is most holy to the Lord’ (Exod. 30: 10. NRSV. Biblia Hebraica). The term ‘kfr’ is used to describe the ‘sin offering’ as is shown in the following Biblical passage: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar, on the day when it is erected for burnt offerings upon it and for dashing blood against it…a bull for (kfr) sin offering’ (Ezekiel 43: 19. NRSV. Biblia Hebraica).

‘kfr’ is used to mean ‘cover over, pacify, propitiate’ as indicated in the Book of Genesis: ‘Let me cover over his face by the present ) so that he does not see the offense, i.e. pacify him’ (Gen. 32: 21).

In the New Testament, the “kfr” (i.e. ransom) is no longer associated with the temple sacrifices, still less with payments of money, or incense, or even with prayers. It is the life of Jesus and his death by crucifixion, with the actual shedding of blood that makes the ransom “kfr” possible. The New Testament declares that in Christ and his death is all that man needs in order for his sins to be forgiven, and his life is “kfr” (i.e. ransomed).

There is no indication in the Aramaic language of the Bible that the word ‘kfr’ ever meant ‘infidel’ or ‘those who did not accept Islam’. Misinterpretation of the Quran led Muslim commentators to render an erroneous definition to the Aramaic word “kfr”.

It is important to keep in mind that the early copies of the Quran did not have the vowel signs necessary for vocalization. When the vowel signs were introduced at a later time, Aramaic ‘kfr’ changed to ‘kafaru’.

The Quranic word ‘sawaa’ has been interpreted erroneously as ‘whether’. Aramaic ‘shwh’ means ‘to agree with’ (Isa. 16: 6). The shift from /sh/ to /s/ and vice versa is interchangeable in the Semitic languages as for example ‘sham[s]’ (sun) and ‘sham[sh]a’; ‘M[es]ih’ and ‘M[sh]iha’ (Messiah) etc.

The Quranic word ‘andhartuhum’ has been interpreted as ‘you warn them’. Syriac (a dialect of Aramaic) ‘etnadrat’ means ‘you give a notice, make a vow’ (Syriac Peshito, Gen. 31: 13). Aramaic ‘ndr’ means ‘vow’ (Psalms 132). In Aramaic, letter /d/ is also spirant /dh/ like ‘there’. When the Arabic vowel signs, which developed later, were added, Aramaic ‘ndr’ change to ‘nadhara’ or ‘andhara’.

The Quran is saying: ‘those who used sin offering for ransom agree (Jews and Christians), whether you give them a notice or not, are not going to believe (i.e. in the Quran). In Syriac, the verse is pronounced as following: ‘holen kafore, showe ‘layhoon, etnadrat lhun ao lo atnadrat lhun lo mhaymne enun’.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 19 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com