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Quran & Sunnah
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Quran & Sunnah
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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 25 June 2005 at 9:31pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Hi Noah, we are not talking about Ghosts but Shaytan they are a type of  Jinn, one of the Creatures Allah has created.

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Quote Noah Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2005 at 12:02am
peace brother.

I do believe in both shaytaan an jinn as a race. However im not at all convinced about the traditional explanation to what they are. Spirits or ghosts. I strongly belive that the Quran teaches us that they are a physical entity. But either with some sort of shapeshifting ability, or the ability to jump through both dimnsion and time at will. I think that someone, for some reason, have made muslims afraid of the boogyman, when in fact we should fear this other race because of their manipulation of us. It would expplain a lot of unexplaned phenomena like Ufo's. people seing reptile characters (like the socalled "greys")all over the world etc..

from memory;

"Moses threw down his staff and saw that it moved as if it was a jinn..."

"Moses threw down his staff, and saw that it was like a snake"

Why are these 2 verses so different.

If look at the bible and look at the traitors in it. We learn that DAN will be a viper in our path.

And this stuff just goes on if you take a loong and hard look at it. Im not so sure the mullahs got it right. But they have a perspective, and i respect that fully, i just disagree with it.

Noah
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2005 at 2:19am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

are you a muslim?

The Islamic Teaching about Jinn is not that they are spirits or Ghosts, both of which are holywood fantasies. They are a race inhabiting this earth just like we are except they are not physical, you will not find that in the Quran.

I strongly sugest you read an article on them becouse your ideas are not from what Islam teaches us, your quotes are wrong please look them up and see for your self.


Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Quote Noah Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2005 at 2:50am
Peace

Yes i concidder myself a muslim, and i base what i say on what i find in the Quran.

“We have committed to Hell multitudes of Jinns and humans. They have minds with which they do not understand, eyes with which they do not see, and ears with which they do not hear. They are like animals; no, they are far worse-they are totally unaware." (7:179)

The above verse may be ‘allegoric’, however if the subject of Jinns having a ‘mind, ears, and eyes’ is allegoric, then the same would have to be said for the humans mentioned in the same verse!.

“Say, "If all the humans and all the Jinns banded together in order to produce a Quran like this, they could never produce anything " (17:88)

Again, we see a ‘physical ‘description being given to the Jinn and humans together (producing a Quran).

"And they have invented a blood-relationship between Him and the Jinns: but the Jinns know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment-Seat)! (37:158)

Why would the disbelievers claim that the prophet had a ‘blood-relation’ (Nas’ab) with the Jinn?. Is this not a physical attribute!.

“O you jinns and humans, if you can penetrate the limits of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and penetrate. You cannot penetrate without authorization." (55:33)

Again, we see a ‘physical’ movement or penetration of limits/boundaries described for BOTH species.

“The day will come when He summons all of them (and says): "O you jinns, you have claimed multitudes of humans." Their human companions will say, "Our Lord, we enjoyed each others' company until we wasted the life span You had set for us." He will say, "Hell is your destiny." They abide therein forever, in accordance with GOD's will. Your Lord is Wise, Omniscient." (6:128)

So if we follow the logic that jinns are not a ghost, but like ghosts. How do you enjoy their company?

“Recall that We directed a number of jinns to you (Mohammed), in order to let them hear the Quran. When they got there, they said, "Listen." As soon as it was over, they rushed to their people, warning. They said, "O our people, we have heard a book that was revealed after Moses, and confirms the previous scriptures. It guides to the truth; to the right path. "O our people, respond to the call of GOD, and believe in Him. He will then forgive your sins, and spare you a painful retribution."" (46:29-31)

If members of the Jinn race were present at a reciting of the Quran, and if these are ‘physical’ beings as i have been pointing out…then the conclusions become very CLEAR:

Jinn and humans can look alike.

The prophet was unable to know that the Jinn were listening to the Quranic recitation except through ‘inspiration’ from GOD in the verses above!.

The Jinn even made claim that they are aware of the Book of Moses and its teachings (a book with physical laws for physical people).

Here is the longer version of the same story again with more clues:

“Say, "I was inspired that a group of jinns listened, then said, `We have heard a wonderful Quran. " `It guides to righteousness, and we have believed in it; we will never set up any idols beside our Lord. " `The Most High is our only Lord. He never had a mate, nor a son. " `It is the foolish among us who used to utter such nonsense about GOD." `We thought that neither the humans, nor the jinns, could possibly utter lies about GOD. " `Human men used to seek power through Jinn men, but they only afflicted them with a lot of adversity." `They thought, just like you thought, that GOD would not send another (messenger). `We touched the heaven and found it filled with formidable guards and projectiles. " `We used to sit there in positions to listen. Anyone who listens NOW is pursued by a powerful projectile. " `We have no idea if something bad is intended for the inhabitants of Earth, or if their Lord wills to redeem them. " `Some of us are righteous, and some are less than righteous; we follow various paths. " `We knew full well that we can never run away from GOD on Earth; we can never run away and escape. " `When we heard the guidance, we believed therein. Anyone who believes in his Lord will never fear any injustice, nor any affliction. " `Among us are the submitters, and among us are the compromisers.' "As for those who submitted, they are on the right path. As for the compromisers, they will be fuel for Hell. If they remain on the right path, we will bless them with abundant water. We will surely test them all. As for him who disregards the message of his Lord, He will direct him to ever increasing retribution.( 72:1-17)

The clues which can be gleaned from the above passages are as follows:

1. Jinn could not be identified from humans when they listened to the Quran;

2. Jinn follow various man-made religions just like humans;

3. Jinn do not know any more than humans do (what is true or false);

4. Jinn have male species similar to humans;

5. Jinn have the ability (or technology?) to travel outside our known universe (logically due to their race being much older that ours);

6. Jinn have been BLOCKED from reaching certain points in space that they used to travel through before (this could be a 'mental' block on astral if not physical travel);

7. Jinn have believers amongst them, as well as rejecters (good & bad).

8. Jinn confirm they are ‘physical’ due to the identification with ‘fuel’ for hell.

In the story of Solomon, we are able to again identify major characteristics of the Jinn:

“Mobilized in the service of Solomon were his obedient soldiers of Jinns and humans, as well as the birds; all at his disposal." (27:17)

“One audacious from the Jinn said, "I can bring it to you (the throne of Sheba) before you stand up. I am powerful and am to be trusted to do this." (27:39)

“To Solomon we committed the wind at his disposal, traveling one month coming and one month going. And we caused a spring of oil to gush out for him. Also, the Jinns worked for him, by his Lord's leave. Any one of them who disregarded our commands, we subjected him to a severe retribution. They made for him anything he wanted-niches, statues, deep pools, and heavy cooking pots. O family of David, work (righteousness) to show your appreciation. Only a few of My servants are appreciative. When the appointed time for his death came, they had no clue that he had died. Not until one of the animals tried to eat his staff, and he fell down, did the Jinns realized that he was dead. They thus realized that had they known the unseen, they would have stopped working so hard as soon as he died. (34:12-14)

1. Physical beings able to make part of an army;

2. Technological or Telepathic ability allows the transfer of large, bulky items across physical space;

3. Posses artistic as well as construction abilities;

4. Unable to know future events just like humans.


And so on and so forth. There are a massive amount of evidence in the Quran for what i claim. And this:

"..When the appointed time for his death came, they had no clue that he had died. Not until one of the animals tried to eat his staff, and he fell down, did the Jinns realized that he was dead. They thus realized that had they known the unseen..."

Actually shoot a big fat hole, in the idea that Jinn somehow know the unseen, this including the future. There you have Allahs words for it, that they dont.

Peace
Noah


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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 27 June 2005 at 1:09am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

Are you a convert to Islam?

Jinns have the ability to take on almost any form they wish including humans in every aspect but in there natural state they are not physical.

They are always with us and around us in there spiritual form (like holywood imagines Ghosts, similar to the movie Ghost) but they can interact with us as they please both on our level of existance and theres, they are free to move in both ie spiritualy and physicaly.

they have there own races (like chinese american but they differer in shape and ability from race to race) and creatures (like our animals) in there spiritual world which is a level of existance above ours as we are in the lowest of the low as allah said to adam. Think of it in terms of frequencies they are on a higher frequency than us.

I can cite ahadith and insha allah when i have time i will.


Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Quote Noah Replybullet Posted: 27 June 2005 at 3:45am
Originally posted by rami

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

Are you a convert to Islam?

Jinns have the ability to take on almost any form they wish including humans in every aspect but in there natural state they are not physical.

They are always with us and around us in there spiritual form (like holywood imagines Ghosts, similar to the movie Ghost) but they can interact with us as they please both on our level of existance and theres, they are free to move in both ie spiritualy and physicaly.

they have there own races (like chinese american but they differer in shape and ability from race to race) and creatures (like our animals) in there spiritual world which is a level of existance above ours as we are in the lowest of the low as allah said to adam. Think of it in terms of frequencies they are on a higher frequency than us.

I can cite ahadith and insha allah when i have time i will.




Peace

Yes i reverted to God's perfect system 5 years ago, from paganism.

Im all with you on this frequence stuff. But im pretty sure they are established in our plane aswell. To be perfectly honest i belive they are currently running our world, in charge (not possesed) of individuals we belive to be leaders. they are not leaders, they are misleaders.

Look into jesuits, the truth about the vatican and the origins  of freemasonry, if you want to understand where im comming from with this.

Both in the west and at "home" ...the saudis (the saudi tribe, not the population of saudi arabia)are the most diabolical clan we ever saw, they are nothing but evil. And currently in charge of our Quran translations. And that makes me feel very uneasy, as i know for a fact that they are from a "jewish" tribe that where not, never was and never will be monotheists. They worship jinn and always have, under various names.

As for hadith, well bro, we differ a bit on this. I do not accept that the hadith has any authority. Logic alone should make this obvious, but i have done my homework and can prove that many of the storys ascribed to the prophet (saws) are rooted in paganism and sunworship. I know,,,i was heavily in to this stuff. astrotheology.

The Quran however, is something completely different. I cried and still cry when i read it. It send chills down my spine, and amazes me n every single way, when you realise...this book is unique. The storys look like other relegious story's but are in fact AMAZINGLY different.
Still concepts and ideas from other relgions snuk its way in through haidth. But i guess thats a completely other debate.

As for Jinn. They are in charge, and the sooner we realise that we are in fact dealing with a physical enemy whoms butt we can give a good whopping if we find them the better. Im well aware that they can do astral projection and leave this plane, some of the verses i posted, hints this.

Peace
Noah
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 27 June 2005 at 3:54am

Bismillah,

Do Jinn have certain doorways that make it easier for them to harm people?  Why would there be certain places, like Maryland, for example, where a person who has been affected by Jinn, is more likely to be attacked?  What a horrible ruse to get someone to stay away from a place to say that this place is dangerous for you because the Jinn have reached you there and will have more power over you there.  Has anyone heard of these "exorcists"?

I think that prayer should protect us from evil, and that shysters and control freaks use the "Science of Jinns" to misdirect people.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 27 June 2005 at 4:34am
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