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poga
 
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Quote poga Replybullet Posted: 23 February 2008 at 6:40am

Originally posted by Warriorofelyon

Hello,

I am writing a Master's thesis discussing the Islamic view of God. This includes a discussion of the Christian understanding of the Trinity compared to how Muslim theologians understand it. I would like to be as fair and accurate as possible.

Would anyone have any suggestions regarding Islamic texts that could be used the represent the Asharite theological school?

Thanks!

to understand the singularity or duality or trinity or what ever first you need to learn about the setting

and ISHALLAH in this one poem you will learn more about the settings of creation then all the man made books of world put together 

so i will take you step by step so ask me when you need

SWEETSWORDS 108 [ Elemental Setting of for Foe ]

BISMILLAH

3 - 2 - 1 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 5 + 8

Poga Humayun Dundiwala

Setting is thus
Still mountainous terrain moving Forrest and removal ass
They move on
From innate to intuition
Intuition to intelligence
And intelligence to illumination
This are only four stages out of eight
In Huma's singular domain with eight Illuminati gate

The station the traveler and the rail
Earthly station traveling plants and the animal mail
In this trinity driver makes four
For journey of stages and the marrifatic tour
The tour de force
The knowledge of epistemological models of ilm e course
The course is as in sequence of the food for thought
In the science of plus and minus and naught and dot

Poga Say's in a Foolington Maze

Fitrath of innate idols
And the nafs of ambitious idolater
Aql of intelligent mental patient
And wisdom of spiritual doctor

Fitrath of innate idols and nature of mud
Nafs and desire of plant and bud
Aql of intelligence butterfly
And Ruh of spiritual beekeeper
In the science of wisdom
And in the signs of nature

Fitrath nafs and aql and ruh
Your innate nature intuitive desire  intelligent mind and spiritual you
Now who am i and where do fit in
I am your heartache the hidden unseen

Fitrath nafs aql and ruh
Me and you he and who
All individual yet unified in aim
In different stages and in different name
All in one and one in all
As mighty in tiny as great in small

 

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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 23 February 2008 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by poga

Originally posted by Warriorofelyon

Hello,

I am writing a Master's thesis discussing the Islamic view of God. This includes a discussion of the Christian understanding of the Trinity compared to how Muslim theologians understand it. I would like to be as fair and accurate as possible.

Would anyone have any suggestions regarding Islamic texts that could be used the represent the Asharite theological school?

Thanks!

to understand the singularity or duality or trinity or what ever first you need to learn about the setting

and ISHALLAH in this one poem you will learn more about the settings of creation then all the man made books of world put together 

so i will take you step by step so ask me when you need

SWEETSWORDS 108 [ Elemental Setting of for Foe ]

BISMILLAH

3 - 2 - 1 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 5 + 8

Poga Humayun Dundiwala

Setting is thus
Still mountainous terrain moving Forrest and removal ass
They move on
From innate to intuition
Intuition to intelligence
And intelligence to illumination
This are only four stages out of eight
In Huma's singular domain with eight Illuminati gate

The station the traveler and the rail
Earthly station traveling plants and the animal mail
In this trinity driver makes four
For journey of stages and the marrifatic tour
The tour de force
The knowledge of epistemological models of ilm e course
The course is as in sequence of the food for thought
In the science of plus and minus and naught and dot

Poga Say's in a Foolington Maze

Fitrath of innate idols
And the nafs of ambitious idolater
Aql of intelligent mental patient
And wisdom of spiritual doctor

Fitrath of innate idols and nature of mud
Nafs and desire of plant and bud
Aql of intelligence butterfly
And Ruh of spiritual beekeeper
In the science of wisdom
And in the signs of nature

Fitrath nafs and aql and ruh
Your innate nature intuitive desire  intelligent mind and spiritual you
Now who am i and where do fit in
I am your heartache the hidden unseen

Fitrath nafs aql and ruh
Me and you he and who
All individual yet unified in aim
In different stages and in different name
All in one and one in all
As mighty in tiny as great in small

 

Poga, you have already responded to the post once before. This is a discussion forum, and not a potery section. Occasional poetry is ok, but you are filling the threads with your poetry, and sometimes you are replying to the same post twice with more poetry. This is borderline, "spaming". I have had several complaints about your posts. I for one find it more difficult to keep track of threads when you begin to paste your poetry into the discussion. It is borderline "disruption". People do not know half the time if you are insulting them or if you are aware of what the topic is about. Try and keep the poetry to a minimum. 

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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Nur_Ilahi
 
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 24 February 2008 at 7:06am

Originally posted by Warriorofelyon


1. Why do you personally reject the notion of the triune God?

2. How do you understand the concept of the Trinity? That is how would you describe it?

Perhaps you should read and understand the 99 attributes of Allah. Here is the link = http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/99names.htm If you read carefully the meaning of these names, I doubt you can find any other God that fits the description in these beautiful names.

We reject totally the triune of God as He is Al Awwal - The Beginning - The source of all that can be found in this whole Universe. He is Al Akhir - He has no End. And most importantly He is Al-Khaliq = The Creator.

Salam.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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poga
 
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Quote poga Replybullet Posted: 24 February 2008 at 7:25am

Poga, you have already responded to the post once before. This is a discussion forum, and not a potery section. Occasional poetry is ok, but you are filling the threads with your poetry, and sometimes you are replying to the same post twice with more poetry. This is borderline, "spaming". I have had several complaints about your posts. I for one find it more difficult to keep track of threads when you begin to paste your poetry into the discussion. It is borderline "disruption". People do not know half the time if you are insulting them or if you are aware of what the topic is about. Try and keep the poetry to a minimum.

dear ANDALUS this poem will answer about tri-nity and four-nity and five-nity in great detail please bear with me

with the first post i mentioned trin-ity in nature

with second post i mentioned four-nity in creation

for this just one poem i went through at-least 10000 books to collect the data

 

 

Mr Barzakh Fitrath Ullah  : Between mud meat and wood
A man in flesh declares i am above rest in prostration's SAJUD
he speaks to god lying sitting standing and at work
He creates sign of sajud and stigmata mark
Oh BE AQL look at a dog
Have seen him doing Yog or Jog
When lying he is rolling reeling
When sitting he is resting and crawling
When standing he run jump and bark
But you will never see him in prostration to achieve the Sajud mark
It is the station of FITRATH NAFS AQL AND RUH
That's distinguish what is what and who is who
Don't you see the way of mud
It too has fire air and watery blood
But essence that predominates his character is his Fitrathullah clay
It doesn't have any desire to run and play
Then life that evolved is Nafsi vegetation
Yet it doesn't have any desire for psychiatric session
It too was created with earth water fire and air
Yet only thing they desire is theirs botanical heir
Yet they protect not theirs progeny at sight of stranger
Have seen burning forest where stationary tree running away from danger
Who do you see fight to kill theirs sibling in love and war
Who else apart from animal Sansar
Who uses theirs mind OH BE AQL
In Mud Wood and Animal
Who else but animal crane
Dies for beloved in separation pain
But have seen any silent giraffe or laughing hyena
Doing the meditation by Yogic Ashana
This are quality's of men what sets them apart from rest of the creation
You see OH BE AQL it is not the Bodi tree but it is the Buddha who does the meditation
All animal have mind but it is the men who holds the RUH
All animal makes the migration but it is the men who wears the shoe
Have seen any monkey going for Nike or spider in need of a needle
No OH BE AQL but it is only the men who can web just with binding words the most enticing riddle

from SWEETSWORDS 108 [ The Elemental Setting of Four Foe ]



Edited by poga
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poga
 
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Quote poga Replybullet Posted: 25 February 2008 at 8:03am
Originally posted by poga

Originally posted by Warriorofelyon

Thanks for all the links!!!!

No I do not know Arabic....well, I do know a little but not enough to say I know Arabic...

Would anyone be willing to answer the following questions?

1. Why do you personally reject the notion of the triune God?

2. How do you understand the concept of the Trinity? That is how would you describe it?

in ISLAM there only one singular ALLAH

but there is trinity in nature

for the self

the surrounding

and the sustainer who sustains the self and the surroundings

here is example

SWEETSWORDS 35 [ Epistemological model of ILM ]

3 -2 -1 - 1 + 2 + 3 + 5 + 8

BISMILLAH

Poga Humayun Dundiwala

Setting is thus
Man mineral and grass
From this ignorant trinity
Outcome the informative duality
The divinity of minus and plus
Beyond that the occult octagonal
The force that sets three stages of fitrath nafs and aql
Is the ilm of Illuminati ALLAH
L a illa ha illel la
MUHAMMAD ur rasul ALLAH

Setting is this
Dark ignorance stark information and illuminating ignis
Then further on
With ignition of neuron
The sermon is this
A single god in octagonal bliss

Poga Say's in a foolington maze

Let me present Science of stages and signs of veils
Sharriatic messengers and marrifatic mail
MUHAMMADAN reality and truth of ALLAH
Foundation less Sufi and fundamental Mullah
Let me present MUHAMMADAN reality and theory of everything
Sharriatic hidden cube and marrifatic manifest ring
MUHAMMADAN reality and fact of Allah
La illa ha illel la
MUHAMMAD ur rasul ALLAH

Tri Kaal Tri Netra Say's oh my fourth functional eye
The Holy ISLAMIC Tribune is the AL HAQQ
But the Christian Trinity is the lie
The Holy ISLAMIC TRIBUNE
Is the uncreated ALLAH the created PEN writing the vibrational QUN FA YA QUN
It is as simple as the doctor and the pen and the tablet
It is as simple as the chicken and the egg and the omelet
But the horrendous Trinity of the Christian Nasara
Where God comes not only to the youthful Mary but also to the old haggard Sara
NAU JU BILLAH MIN ZAALIK
Tri Kaal Tri Netra Say's there is nothing Pure and Holy in the Christan Tribune apart from the horrendous polluted SHIRK

Mr Barzakh Fitrath Ullah : The Ajanana Avidya The Ne science Laduni
The ilm e marrifa the knowledge Al Bateni
Mr Greenman Gupta ibn chlorophyll
Al Khidr's karma and Brahma's will
Now you know oh BE AQL BARZAKH'S field and his FAL
Now you know THE TRI KAL TRI NETRA the The three dimensional TRISMEGUSTUS HERMETICAL

from SWEETSWORDS 106 [ Sonorous Sigh ]

 

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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 25 February 2008 at 8:29am
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

1. Why do you personally reject the notion of the triune God?

God has certain attributes which if true means that he will never behave in a certain way even though it is within his power to do so.

We know He is the merciful the forgiver but at the same time he is the Just and the Punisher, so if he is merciful and the forgiver of sins does that mean he will now forgive every criminal there sins, becouse to not do so would now imply that in effect he is not being the merciful or the fogiving.

The correct perspective to understand this matter is to see that he is the merciful and the forgiver but at the same time he is the just and the punisher he isnt one or the other but all at the same time at all times. He forgives people there sins but punishes those he decides to punish in his wisdom [as he is the wise] and his knowledge [as he is the knowledgeable all knowing] and the just [so those he decides to punish he does so justly].

So when you look at his attributes he isnt one OR the other but all at the same time.

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3882& ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;PN=4


From his atributes we know he is The Sovereign, The Holy, The Flawless just to name a few for the purpose of this reply.

Now the trinity consists of three things, God the Holy spirit and Jesus. According to the king james Bible God Beget a son with marry the holy mother through the holy spirit.

God sacrificed his only son in order to forgive the sins of man.

jesus walked this earth as a normal human being would.

Regarding the above points these acts go against his attribute and nature of being The Sovereign [the quality of being independent of all existing things] he was not in need of manifesting himself in this world by virtue of child labor and birth he was not limited by the way in which he forgave sins i.e he was not in Need of a sacrifice he is independent of needing anything he acts based upon knowledge, wisdom and understanding as having a need means being subservient and reliant on whatever fulfills that need, all of which contradict the following attributes The Flawless and The Holy.

We know Allah can do what ever he likes, if he so chose he could manifest himself in a triune state and choose to only forgive our sins after sacrificing himself on the cross. If the last two attributes where true of him i.e his having been The Flawless [Allah's quality of lacking all imperfection or any trace of deficiency.] and The Holy [Allah's quality of being above every description of which human perception can perceive.] then this is not an act he would choose to do.

Why dont we ever say God [authubillah] is a murderer or he tortures people or he steals from them tricks them, manipulates them and is sadistic....Its becouse we know he possesses the noblest of Qualities which declare him above such behavior. Similarly these attribute tell us the he will never decide to manifest himself in a triune state by way of child labor and walk on this earth as humans do with all there weaknesses and imperfections which are clearly stated in the bible and can not be attributed to God in his perfectness or Crucify himself so he could forgive our sins.

Al-`Al: The Highest

"Glorify the name of your Lord the Highest (Al-`Al)" (87:1).

The Highest is that quality above which there is no rank. All the other ranks are inferior to the Highest. The Highest refers to height. Height refers to the concept of elevation. Elevation is the opposite of lowness. It may be conceived in terms of perceptible height or level or in terms of some sort of rational order. Everything that can be described as being "above" in respect of space possesses spatial highness and everything that can be described as being "above" in terms of rank may be said to have a highness exceeding all others.

The idea of the trinity contradicts Gods very attributes and as br Andalus has pointed out since it is all a matter of inteprating certain verses in the bible as there is no clear declaration of the trinity ever existing then men have fallen far short of understanding God's perfectness, uniqueness, Greatness, Majesty and exaltedness and themselves have attributed weakness and imperfection to him.

Sura Al Falaq [112] in the Quran affirms this.

Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
He begetteth not nor was begotten.
And there is none comparable unto Him.

If you notice he has indicated which attributes we should think about to understand why he will never decide to manifest himself in a triune state.


2. How do you understand the concept of the Trinity? That is how would you describe it?

The trinity as i understand it is the manifestation of God in three seperate beings at the same time all interacting with one another as if independent from each other but in reality they are not.

Two of these beings jesus and the holy siprit where God and limited at the same time, a contradiction in terms.



Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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poga
 
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Quote poga Replybullet Posted: 26 February 2008 at 12:55pm

Originally posted by Warriorofelyon

Hello,

I am writing a Master's thesis discussing the Islamic view of God. This includes a discussion of the Christian understanding of the Trinity compared to how Muslim theologians understand it. I would like to be as fair and accurate as possible.

Would anyone have any suggestions regarding Islamic texts that could be used the represent the Asharite theological school?

Thanks!

Dear warriorofelyon how do you rate my data i hope you find them useful



Edited by poga
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Warriorofelyon
 
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Quote Warriorofelyon Replybullet Posted: 28 February 2008 at 5:34pm
Thanks everyone! I Found your information/objections quite helpful!

I would say that there still seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding regarding what the Trinity is...etc...

I realize this forum is not designed for debate and therefore I would not violate the rules nor disrespect this community by attempting to reply to any statements. With that said, if anyone would like to discuss further what I embrace the notion of a triune God please feel free to contact me.

Also, if you would be willing to read some of my tracing of history regarding trinitarian theology and my philosophical description of the trinity please feel free to contact me as well.

My e-mail is kdhartman@liberty.edu

ONE LAST QUESTION...

I am attempting to show some of the similarities between the Allah of the Qur'an and the Allah (in the Arabic Christian sense) of the bible.

So would you all say it is fair to say...based upon the 99 beautiful names...

That just like the God of the bible...Allah is...

LOVE
HOLY
MERCIFUL
COMPASSIONATE...

The God of the Bible is literally describe as ontologically LOVE...

Would it be fair to describe Allah the same way??
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