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General Islamic Matter
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : General Islamic Matter
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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 14 February 2008 at 10:14pm

Brother Iftikah expressed his concerns over the lack of muslim education. I have previously replied to him with statisitics, that in the UK we have many Islamic schools. We can of course have more, but like all things it will take time.

Yes, everything takes time. All stangnate in a queue; education, poor peoples' hip replacements, increasing obesity, binge drinking, everything.

The only thing that happen immediately, in a flash, is bombing. Give our Hanglo Sexnons half a chance (specially if their English speaking cousins from across the pond are there) see how fast they bomb anything they see moving!

Sasha Khanzadeh
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martha
 
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2008 at 1:18am

I'm wondering why Bro Iftikar chose to settle in the UK,if life here is so bad. Maybe he should have done his research before taking the step to move here. I have no problem at all with anyone making a life here.

It is all very well to criticise the sytem, but far better to do one's best to change what is felt to be unacceptable. I'm not convinced Bro Iftikhar is really doing his bit.

Politics doesnt always have to enter into our every day life of doing our best to raise our families, to teach them right from wrong, and hopefully give them a sense of pride in their own selves, regardless of which culture they come from. Problems arise when parents fail the children. Binge drinking could be one of those issues. I dont see that the fault lies anywhere else but from within the family system, and failing to educate our children to abstain from alcohol. Many youngsters roam the streets at night because they are either not wanted at home, or they feel unloved by their parents. Yet many thousands more are content with homelife and create no problem for society. As a westernised woman, I have had no problem with my children wishing to escape a loving home enviroment to pursue questionable pursuits outdoors. They are well adjusted young adults facing the world with the good morals they were taught.

I disagree with you Whisper, that everything is wrong here. Of course we can see the problems within politics, and with the way that the labour government handle it's policies. Soon the people will be able to change it's PM if they so wish. We need a change of PM. But I am interested to know why many asian settlers to the UK support the Labour Government when so much in their eyes is wrong within society.

 The health system provides, as much as it can a service to all, with the money that is available. There are delays, but despite this we still  have a good National Health Service. what other options are available? A private health care, such as in the US, or none at all, as in Pakistan? We are able to call the police, fire, coastguard and ambulance service with no charge. We have library facilities. So much.  Perhaps the millions we send abroad in foreign aid would be better chanelled into our own system. This would enable us to concentrate on those areas that Bro Iftikhar is mentioning.

We could debate this till we're blue in the face. But Bro Iftikhar does not respond. He is always the same. Until the time the changes he insists upon take place, I hope he spends his time teaching his children all they need to prevent them from falling into the pitfalls of society. But until then I'm afraid to say he cant have his cake and eat it as well.

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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2008 at 2:42pm

I'm wondering why Bro Iftikar chose to settle in the UK,if life here is so bad. Maybe he should have done his research before taking the step to move here. I have no problem at all with anyone making a life here.

People from ex-colonies have been bled so hard that they were not left the luxury of "deciding" before moving with any such proper research!!

If you have become a Muslim, kindly, stop being terribly defensive about "my Graet Britain". Islam DOES NOT allow any national considerations. It is a concept, a faith of pure simple Human Rights and relations.

Sometime you sound outright racist.

Sasha Khanzadeh
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Fear_Allah
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Quote Fear_Allah Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2008 at 8:37pm

Originally posted by Whisper

Islam DOES NOT allow any national considerations. It is a concept, a faith of pure simple Human Rights and relations.

Assalam alikom

Who said that brother?

Yes,it's true that everyone who is Muslimh is FIRST loyalty must be to Islam..But I think that those "national considerations" are not forbidden.

I may say that sis.Martha is a muslim lady but she is also british.She(and also everyone else) should adapt to make both of identities live in harmony

Even if the deeds of her government doesn't embody islamic concepts,but if a conflict rose between the two identities the individual will feel lost and will not be productive.

It's my simple point of view actually.

And concering the main subject,I agree with sis.martha PARTIALLY.

The family system is number one in everything.Even if islamic schools were provided and the family was sleepy,the child may deprive from the right path by any other means.Islam always focuses on the role of muslim family first..

But I also see like bro.Iftikhar that providingsingle-sex schools for muslims and will have a good effect as well.

Just to think positively,Be sure that the family is good and they bring up their children islamically,parallel to working to provide these schools.

Our LORD! accept from us. You indeed, You are the all-Hearing, the all-Knowing. (2:127)
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Quote ak_m_f Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2008 at 8:40pm
Islam does not exist in a vacuum, but within cultures and societies.

One has to appreciate the benefits one is deriving from life in a non-Muslim country.
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martha
 
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 16 February 2008 at 4:15am

I'm wondering why Bro Iftikar chose to settle in the UK,if life here is so bad. Maybe he should have done his research before taking the step to move here. I have no problem at all with anyone making a life here.

People from ex-colonies have been bled so hard that they were not left the luxury of "deciding" before moving with any such proper research!!

Brother Whisper, Actually I was asking a question, not making a judgement in any way. But you have explained. Thats fine. I'm only interested why some choose to come, and what attracts them here. They surely feel there is some benefit, with the chance of a better life. Perhaps you can help me understand the reasons. Did you not also make the decision to move here some years back? I think I remember you saying you went to university in the UK. Was your time in the UK  that bad?

If you have become a Muslim, kindly, stop being terribly defensive about "my Graet Britain". Islam DOES NOT allow any national considerations. It is a concept, a faith of pure simple Human Rights and relations.

Sometime you sound outright racist.

Whisper, you are muslim also. But you have an allegiance with Pakistan. I have one with the UK.Our characters have been formed purely by the fact of where we were born and I hope that neither of us are racist, being muslim. Our beliefs in Islam often do not go hand in hand with our cultures. And traditions die hard in both our countries. And as of yet the UK is not an Islamic country. Having said that, you would have noticed in recent days that the Archbishop of Canterbury made a statement that Sharia law in the UK should be permissable in some instances for the muslims here ie Islamic courts for divorce, as the Jewish people already have. Does this not show consideration for muslim's human rights? Of course he came under a huge amount of criticism for this from others. As to what will happen over this is yet to be seen. But it is a step in the right direction regarding Islam. I'm sure other prominent figures will also voice agreement in the future. But coming back to the topic that Iftikhar started, I fail to see him acknowedging  the decent side of life in the UK that does exist. And his human rights here far outreach the ones he had in his Pakistan. And all help is available to him in the UK. But to constantly critisise 'the hand that feeds him' is not helpful in his quest to make those changes he feels are essential, and will perhaps do more harm than good, in a country that still does not have the foresight regarding Islam. Times are changing. And he should be patient. It does not happen overnight.


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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 16 February 2008 at 5:08am

Well,

It is interesting that if someone criticizes a place they live in, people ask why son't you leave? If you criticize another place, its like be quiet you are not from here and don't understand....

People no matter where, don't like their faults pointed out. Rightly or wrongly.. lol

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 16 February 2008 at 7:52pm
I don't know why another exact thread was created, i guess Iftikar knows. My thoughts & participation are in the other thread.
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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