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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 14 February 2008 at 11:50pm
We are all immortal in spirit.  I think you could take the lessons of the immortality of the spirit and see where John the Beloved is in fact still alive.

The grave is temporary.  On the Last Day, we will all be assigned to our Eternal resting place.  This is a fundamental principle in Islam and Christianity.

Immortality doesn't make one a God.  The power over the forces of Creation makes one God.  Prophet's don't hold this power, nor do Angels.  Only God. 

So, believing that God could make someone Immortal is true.  He's made us all immortal.  We just must first suffer a bodily death.  The day of resurrection will united boy and spirit for Eternity to be with God. 

We talk sometimes about being twinkled.  Like Elijah, where death and resurrection are so immediate that the person does not suffer.  We believe that certain Prophets have had this blessing. 

The nature of God is such that anything is possible to him.  However, he's laid down the rules for us.  Rules that he himself obeys because he is perfect.  Thus everything is planned out...creation, Adam and Eve, Jesus, Revelation... These are all within God's plan.

I like the statement in the Quran that Allah is the best of planners.
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Quote myahya Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2008 at 12:59am

After all, about the mortality or immortality in this period of our life (before the last day, Qiamah) Quran has clearly stated that “All individuals taste death”. Even Mahdi (as), whom I earlier spoke of, would die before Qiaamah and it is also reported by the last prophet and 12 leaders.

Yes of course, but my point is that miracles are extremely unusual events which would not go unnoticed or unreported.

This is another concept open to question … 

Edited by myahya
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poga
 
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Quote poga Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2008 at 7:18am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by poga

tell me ron who was the god who wrestle with job

I think you mean Jacob, and Genesis says that he was a man, not a god.

thank you ron i made mistake with job and jacob

but my question still remain who was this god with whome jocob fought 

you say he was men but bible say's he god

In Genesis 32:24-32, we read about how the child of the promise, Jacob, wrestled and fought against God. Jacob fought against God Himself, and he got seriously hurt by God because He wrestled against Him, Jacob got so hurt after wrestling with God he walked with a limp for the rest of his life. The limp would have been a reminder of the suffering he had to endure in order to see the face of God

awal
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 15 February 2008 at 11:08am
Originally posted by poga

you say he was men but bible say's he god

In Genesis 32:24-32, we read about how the child of the promise, Jacob, wrestled and fought against God.

The Book of Genesis clearly and repeatedly calls him a man.  Jacob seems to think he was God, but Jacob must have been mistaken.  Here is the New International translation, but it's similar in King James or any other version I've seen:

24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak.

25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.

26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak."
      But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."

27 The man asked him, "What is your name?"
      "Jacob," he answered.

28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."

29 Jacob said, "Please tell me your name."
      But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there.

30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

You'll note that the Bible says that the man could not overpower Jacob.  How then could he have been God?

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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 16 February 2008 at 1:43am
Bi ismillahi rahamani raheem

I would say no, immortality by itself is insufficient; but I wouldn't call them "mortals" either.  They are somewhere in between.

yes they will no longer be mortal, no surprise there but they would still be human.

Implicit in your reply is the underlaying assumption that you would prostrate your self to something which wasnt God in the absolute sence but merely had some powers which distinguished it from being human.


Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 16 February 2008 at 9:33am
I wouldn't prostrate myself anyway, rami.  My God would have more respect for human dignity.  But that's a totally different discussion.
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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 17 February 2008 at 2:18am
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

You are not more dignified than every single prophet he sent or every single angel he created or Jesus himself and his mother marry.

As they say there are no atheists on a sinking ship.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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poga
 
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Quote poga Replybullet Posted: 17 February 2008 at 7:16am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by poga

you say he was men but bible say's he god

In Genesis 32:24-32, we read about how the child of the promise, Jacob, wrestled and fought against God.

The Book of Genesis clearly and repeatedly calls him a man.  Jacob seems to think he was God, but Jacob must have been mistaken.  Here is the New International translation, but it's similar in King James or any other version I've seen:

24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak.

25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.

26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak."
      But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."

27 The man asked him, "What is your name?"
      "Jacob," he answered.

28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."

29 Jacob said, "Please tell me your name."
      But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there.

30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

You'll note that the Bible says that the man could not overpower Jacob.  How then could he have been God?


hello ron
who is malchezadek
who is this god who is doing what he is doing to sarah

1] And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

[2] And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

[3] And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

[4] As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

[5] Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

[6] And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

[7] And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

[8] And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

[15] And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

[16] And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

[17] Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

[18] And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

[19] And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

 

18:1- 5,9-14

[1] And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

[2] And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

[3] And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

[4] Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

[5] And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

[9] And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.

[10] And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.

[11] Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.

[12] Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?

[13] And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?

[14] Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

 

21:1-3

[1] And the LORD visited Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken.

[2] For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.

[3] And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac



awal
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