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rami
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 9:42am

Bi ismilahi rahmani raheem

Scientifically speaking all it would mean is that your cell regeneration stays at the same rate and does not decay, nothing Godly about that just something God decided to do for someone.

you assuming they are god becouse of it is your leap in logic not mine...i.e i don't need to believe that a person who does not die is a god also.

i should rather state its not Godly to be immortal as every one of us will be given this gift in the next life, will we be gods at that point in time?

Edited by rami

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 10:56am

Originally posted by poga

tell me ron who was the god who wrestle with job

I think you mean Jacob, and Genesis says that he was a man, not a god.

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 11:11am

Originally posted by myahya

Ron, A monotheist never believes that a mortal is another God and can be another God. Otherwise, I would not call him or her a monotheist. But, do you really believe if a mortal lives for more than what you think is ordinary, then that mortal would be another God? Then I would say how small your God is ... !

Well, it's a matter of semantics, isn't it? Polytheistic religions usually ascribe different powers to their various gods, the Greeks had their demigods and their heroes and so on. Where you draw the line between gods and humans is a matter of definition. It just seems to me that immortality (or virtual immortality) is a pretty big one in the list of defining characteristics of a god. That's why we contrast gods with "mortals".

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 11:18am

Originally posted by rami

Scientifically speaking all it would mean is that your cell regeneration stays at the same rate and does not decay, nothing Godly about that just something God decided to do for someone.

It seems to me that we're talking about a full-blown miracle, not just something that "God decided to do for someone". As I said, surely it would be a noteworthy event, not something left to be deduced from ambiguous and conflicting information. I would rather believe, as Saint John said, that reports of his immortality were just rumours, not factual.

i should rather state its not Godly to be immortal as every one of us will be given this gift in the next life, will we be gods at that point in time?

Well, we won't be "mortals" anymore.

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myahya

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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 1:29pm

It just seems to me that immortality (or virtual immortality) is a pretty big one in the list of defining characteristics of a god.

Immortality is intrinsically one of the characteristics of Allah.

It seems to me that we're talking about a full-blown miracle, not just something that "God decided to do for someone".

Prophets have shown full-blown miracles. Allah decided to do for them. None of them performed those miracles inherently.

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rami
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 6:23pm

Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

I would rather believe, as Saint John said, that reports of his immortality were just rumours, not factual.

I am not arguing for or against this particular case but rather if God has the ability to do it without us considering them a God.

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 6:47pm

Originally posted by myahya

Prophets have shown full-blown miracles. Allah decided to do for them. None of them performed those miracles inherently.

Yes of course, but my point is that miracles are extremely unusual events which would not go unnoticed or unreported.

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 6:58pm

Originally posted by rami

I am not arguing for or against this particular case but rather if God has the ability to do it without us considering them a God.

Yes, God has the ability to do it. Whether that makes them "gods" depends on your definition, of course. I would say no, immortality by itself is insufficient; but I wouldn't call them "mortals" either. They are somewhere in between.

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Author	Message
rami Male Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 01 March 2000 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2550	Posted: 14 February 2008 at 9:42am
	Bi ismilahi rahmani raheem Scientifically speaking all it would mean is that your cell regeneration stays at the same rate and does not decay, nothing Godly about that just something God decided to do for someone. you assuming they are god becouse of it is your leap in logic not mine...i.e i don't need to believe that a person who does not die is a god also. i should rather state its not Godly to be immortal as every one of us will be given this gift in the next life, will we be gods at that point in time? Edited by rami
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Online Posts: 1398	Posted: 14 February 2008 at 10:56am
	*Originally posted by poga* tell me ron who was the god who wrestle with job I think you mean Jacob, and Genesis says that he was a man, not a god.
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Online Posts: 1398	Posted: 14 February 2008 at 11:11am
	*Originally posted by myahya* Ron, A monotheist never believes that a mortal is another God and can be another God. Otherwise, I would not call him or her a monotheist. But, do you really believe if a mortal lives for more than what you think is ordinary, then that mortal would be another God? Then I would say how small your God is ... ! Well, it's a matter of semantics, isn't it? Polytheistic religions usually ascribe different powers to their various gods, the Greeks had their demigods and their heroes and so on. Where you draw the line between gods and humans is a matter of definition. It just seems to me that immortality (or virtual immortality) is a pretty big one in the list of defining characteristics of a god. That's why we contrast gods with "mortals".
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Online Posts: 1398	Posted: 14 February 2008 at 11:18am
	*Originally posted by rami* Scientifically speaking all it would mean is that your cell regeneration stays at the same rate and does not decay, nothing Godly about that just something God decided to do for someone. It seems to me that we're talking about a full-blown miracle, not just something that "God decided to do for someone". As I said, surely it would be a noteworthy event, not something left to be deduced from ambiguous and conflicting information. I would rather believe, as Saint John said, that reports of his immortality were just rumours, not factual. i should rather state its not Godly to be immortal as every one of us will be given this gift in the next life, will we be gods at that point in time? Well, we won't be "mortals" anymore.
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myahya Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 222	Posted: 14 February 2008 at 1:29pm
	It just seems to me that immortality (or virtual immortality) is a pretty big one in the list of defining characteristics of a god. Immortality is intrinsically one of the characteristics of Allah. It seems to me that we're talking about a full-blown miracle, not just something that "God decided to do for someone". Prophets have shown full-blown miracles. Allah decided to do for them. None of them performed those miracles inherently.
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rami Male Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 01 March 2000 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2550	Posted: 14 February 2008 at 6:23pm
	Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem I would rather believe, as Saint John said, that reports of his immortality were just rumours, not factual. I am not arguing for or against this particular case but rather if God has the ability to do it without us considering them a God.
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Online Posts: 1398	Posted: 14 February 2008 at 6:47pm
	*Originally posted by myahya* Prophets have shown full-blown miracles. Allah decided to do for them. None of them performed those miracles inherently. Yes of course, but my point is that miracles are extremely unusual events which would not go unnoticed or unreported.
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Online Posts: 1398	Posted: 14 February 2008 at 6:58pm
	*Originally posted by rami* I am not arguing for or against this particular case but rather if God has the ability to do it without us considering them a God. Yes, God has the ability to do it. Whether that makes them "gods" depends on your definition, of course. I would say no, immortality by itself is insufficient; but I wouldn't call them "mortals" either. They are somewhere in between.
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