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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Quote myahya Replybullet Posted: 13 March 2008 at 3:52pm

Ron: People are themselves prone to error and will mislead themselves even if the message (e.g. the Quran) is perfect.

Right, but this is the responsibility of people themselves. Allah’s will is to guide people but not by enforcing. We are created to have intention in our life, to decide and to choose and finally take the responsibility of our judgment.  This comes back to your earlier good question saying “How can you be certain that you understand them correctly, and apply them appropriately?  Either way, ultimately you have to trust your own judgement.”

Yes I have to trust my own judgment otherwise I would be at last an animal not a human being.  Allah has created wisdom and heart in me as a human and He has given me the freedom to do my best to choose. The most important difference is, He has guaranteed (through his perfect messages and messengers) that if I do my best with honestly and with a sincere heart (Iman), then certainly I would be guided. From Allah’s side there so no shortcoming (Quran perfect and Messenger perfect).

Ron: You might feel that it is easier to assume that the Prophet was infallible.

I personally think it would be easier if one assumes the prophet is fallible and then gives him/herself a comforting freedom to judge and act in more enjoyable manners. It might be even much easier if one sits back and gives an order to Allah to send another prophet to them to hear the new messages and judge whether the messages are enjoyable enough to accept or not.

People who have Iman are always between fear and hope regarding to Allah’s will (as stated in Quran, and obedience the prophet) while they are doing their best.

Ron: You don't seem to see much distinction between the role of Muhammad and the role of Allah.

May be your misunderstanding is that you take infallibility as synonym to being Allah. Allah is creator and the prophet is the messenger of Allah, the instructor and the leader as well.

Quran [62:2]: " He is Who raised among the illiterates a Messenger from among them, who recites to them His verses and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error"

Ron: So you really think that President Bush, who is charged with authority in the United States, is infallible?

This is an obvious wrong comprehension due to neglecting the prophet and going directly to Quran. President Bush may suppose having some form of authority in US. However, regarding to that verse of Quran, who should give the authority to those who have authority among us? Allah. To whom Allah command to introduce those who have authority among us? To his prophet.

According to my belief, in that verse of Quran, those who have authority among me are the 12 infallible leaders, not anyone else.

Ron: The commanding officer in the analogy is Muhammad, not Allah.

For me the main commander is Allah. He (the perfect and eternal) has sent the prophet and commanded me to obey him without imposing any exception.


Edited by myahya
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Quote myahya Replybullet Posted: 13 March 2008 at 3:55pm

Angela: But, I think placing undue importance on them is dangerous.  If the Quran says something, that is GOD's word correct?  Then if a Hadith says something different, who am I going to believe.

An incautious use of hadith without checking it through Quran, wisdom and a very detailed historical study can be extremely dangerous I agree. However, at the other extreme, referring only and only to Quran with incomprehension and misunderstanding would not be less dangerous than that.

Angela: Its the hypocrisy that reminds me why I am Mormon and not Muslim.

Forget about Hadith and Sunnah. If you believe that Quran is perfect, infallible and from Allah:

Quran [33:40]: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men. He is the Messenger of Allah and the last Prophet. Allah is aware of all things.

Quran [3:85]: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the Last day he shall be one of the losers.

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