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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Topic: Multiple wives will mean multiple benefit
    Posted: 03 February 2008 at 8:54am

Multiple wives will mean multiple benefits

ref: http://www.telegrap h.co.uk/news/ main.jhtml? xml=/news/ 2008/02/03/ nbenefit103. xml

Husbands with multiple wives have been given the go-ahead to claim extra welfare benefits following a year-long Government review, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal.

Even though bigamy is a crime in Britain, the decision by ministers means that polygamous marriages can now be recognised formally by the state, so long as the weddings took place in countries where the arrangement is legal.

The outcome will chiefly benefit Muslim men with more than one wife, as is permitted under Islamic law. Ministers estimate that up to a thousand polygamous partnerships exist in Britain, although they admit there is no exact record.

The decision has been condemned by the Tories, who accused the Government of offering preferential treatment to a particular group, and of setting a precedent that would lead to demands for further changes in British law.

New guidelines on income support from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) state: "Where there is a valid polygamous marriage the claimant and one spouse will be paid the couple rate ... The amount payable for each additional spouse is presently £33.65."

Income support for all of the wives may be paid directly into the husband's bank account, if the family so choose. Under the deal agreed by ministers, a husband with multiple wives may also be eligible for additional housing benefit and council tax benefit to reflect the larger property needed for his family.

The ruling could cost taxpayers millions of pounds. Ministers launched a review of the benefit rules for polygamous marriages in November 2006, after it emerged that some families had benefited financially.

The review concluded in December last year with agreement that the extra benefits should continue to be paid, the Government admitted. The decision was not publicly announced.

Four departments - the Treasury, the DWP, HM Revenue and Customs, and the Home Office - were involved in the review, which concluded that recognising multiple marriages conducted overseas was "the best possible" option. In Britain, bigamy is punishable by up to seven years in prison.

Islamic law permits men to have up to four wives at any one time - known as a harem - provided the husband spends equal amounts of time and money on each of them.

A DWP spokesman claimed that the number of people in polygamous marriages entering Britain had fallen since the 1988 Immigration Act, which "generally prevents a man from bringing a second or subsequent wife with him to this country if another woman is already living as his wife in the UK".

While a married man cannot obtain a spouse visa to bring a second wife into Britain, some multiple partners may be able to enter the country via other legal routes such as tourist visas, student visas or work permits.

In addition, officials have identified a potential loophole by which a man can divorce his wife under British law while continuing to live with her as his spouse under Islamic law, and obtain a spouse visa for a foreign woman who he can legally marry.

"Entry clearance may not be withheld from a second wife where the husband has divorced his previous wife and the divorce is thought to be one of convenience," an immigration rulebook advises. "This is so, even if the husband is still living with the previous wife and to issue the entry clearance would lead to the formation of a polygamous household."

Chris Grayling, the shadow work and pensions secretary, said that the decision was "completely unjustifiable".

"You are not allowed to have multiple marriages in the UK, so to have a situation where the benefits system is treating people in different ways is totally unacceptable and will serve to undermine confidence in the system.

"This sets a precedent that will lead to more demands for the culture of other countries to be reflected in UK law and the benefits system."

Mr Grayling also accused the Government of trying to keep the ruling quiet because the topic is so controversial.

 

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martha
 
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2008 at 1:33pm

Quite frankly, if a muslim man with one wife cannot support her and they are receiving  benefits, I cant see that Islamically he feels justified to have any more wives.

I hope the Muslim Council of Britain discourages all men from taking another wife, unless he can support them and not sponge off the tax payers money.

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Walid
 
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Quote Walid Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2008 at 3:51am
Muslim man will practice polygamous regardless of what western law says. After all, many western men are in illegal polygamous relation ship despite claiming otherwise. That is why many western women lost their rights. Thanks for their feminist movement.

Sister Martha wrote:

"I hope the Muslim Council of Britain discourages all men from taking another wife, unless he can support them and not sponge off the tax payers money".

I agree except sponge off stuff. The most important is educating muslim women rights in accordance to Quran and correct sunnah. I doubt Muslim Council of Britain is equipped to do that at this stage.



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martha
 
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2008 at 5:19am

Walid,

I agree that muslim man will do as he chooses regarding polygamy.

There are plenty of muslim organisations that can advise on this matter. But muslim men should do their best to support themselves and their wife/wives without relying on benefits. That is an Islamic principle. You need to convince me otherwise.

Womens rights in Islam mean very little if the husband doesnt understand his duty to support her. It falls on the man to be responsible and sensible, not use the benefit system as an excuse for his failings. I have heard 'thousands' of times, muslims and non-muslims saying 'oh well, the government can look after us'. What kind of human beings are they? Answer-weak.

I appreciate there are many good muslims that struggle in the UK. They are entitled to help. But a muslim man in these circumstances should stick to one wife. Common sense tells you that if you cant keep one wife, then dont take another. That applies wherever you are in the world. (Unfortunately the western society can make it too easy, so allowing some to abuse the system.)It is the woman who will suffer. So educate the man first.

 

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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Walid
 
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Quote Walid Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2008 at 6:04am


Sister Martha.

I agree with you that we shouldn't build homes on welfare, food stamps or section 8 and ghetto low-income houses etc. Those less fortune that were denied opportunity and stuck up with this situation must try to liberate themselves as much as they can.

Let we settle sister that both men and women need real Islamic education on this. I know four brothers who are all married more than one wife. Each wife lives in her own house (fully paid with their hard earning not mortgage haram scam). None of them ever bothered to go beyond their means despite they faced a tough/rough times. Their elder brother said once, what is enough for one woman in this country can cover two if there is real iman among real muslimah in this country.

These are fortunate ones. However, there are many brothers who don't have means and sometimes marry another wife in bad setting then create uncertain in their houses. Equally so, there are many sisters who jump on brother without consideration beyond financial means.  U can guess the result!!

The right question is deen only as sunnah shows well with big/little in hands. It is good to have financial muscle all the time or most of the time. But it is quite obvious financial setting can fluctuate. I don't think anyone can advocate as we see permanent future stability before commencing a new marriage.


May Allah show us the truth path of building stable homes.


Walid

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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2008 at 4:35pm

Originally posted by Walid


Each wife lives in her own house (fully paid with their hard earning not mortgage haram scam).

Are they living in the West, if so then how did they pay for the house? a mortgage is a loan from the bank.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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imp87
 
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Quote imp87 Replybullet Posted: 05 February 2008 at 5:56am

Put the “western system” aside for a second, I do not know why it got dragged there again, this is just another example that people get married without thinking properly and for the wrong purposes.

 

Being on benefits shows you are having some kind of problem supporting yourself and wife, maybe the grown ups can ignore this because they get to indulge in there fantasy world at night, but what about the children of these families?

 

It would also be interesting to find out how many of these 2nd, 3rd, or 4th wives are British citizens or UK born Muslims (Regardless of origin). I think that would show a bit more the reality if these women marry because they “want to” or I am sorry to say “need to”.

 

Our prophet s.a.w married for the right reasons, but I do not know if that could be said for the people of today, regardless if it is there right or not.

 

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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 06 February 2008 at 12:05am
 
Originally posted by imp87

Being on benefits shows you are having some kind of problem supporting yourself and wife, maybe the grown ups can ignore this because they get to indulge in there fantasy world at night, but what about the children of these families?


Exactly!


Our prophet s.a.w married for the right reasons, but I do not know if that could be said for the people of today, regardless if it is there right or not.

 



My knowledge the Prophet introduced it because after war or wars, many men were killed, so there were more women than men. There was a need for it then. But now there is not much of a need now.

The Prophet also advice that if can and are able to support more than one wife, then yes, if not then do not.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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