IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Tomas- Can I go back to islam?

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Ali Zaki

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Posted: 13 June 2005 at 8:54am

Salam to All,

Here is an explanation of "Apostacy in Islam" from an academic source. Orignal Arabic (Quranic) terms are used and explained for clarity.

""Murtad" means apostate. Murtad can be of two types: fitri and milli. (1) Murtad Fitri means a person born of a Muslim parent and then he rejects Islam. Fitri means nature or natural...(2) "Murtad Milli" means a person who converted to Islam and then later on he rejects Islam. Milli is from millat which means a community. The term "murtad milli" implies that the person has apostated from his community.

A former kãfir who became a Muslim (Murtad Milli) and then apostates (Murtad Milli) is given a second chance; if he repents, then he is not to be killed (i.e. punished. Please ignore the word "killed", as this applies only in a specific situation, and there is no consideration of the Sharia punishment in a non-Muslim state.)

NOTE- This is a ruling according to the Shia Fiqh.

SOURCE- Ayatullãh al-Khu'i's Takmilatu Minhãju 's-Salihiyn, vol. 1, pp. 324-337 for the ahãdith used by our jurists.

WEB PAGE- http://www.al-islam.org/short/apostacy.htm, THIS PAGE ALSO CONTAINS A MUCH MORE LENGTHY DISCUSSION OF THIS TOPIC FOR THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED.

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)

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The One

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Posted: 13 June 2005 at 10:54am

Hello Dear Brother Ahmad!

That was a good reply, thank you.

Now I am specifically asking my would be wife. Though there is no reservation regarding marriage in my religion, I heard that Muslims cannot have spouses of other religions. I want to know what will be her status according to Quran or Islam if she marries me. Would she be considered an apostate and not allowed to be a Muslim? I want our marriage to be completely based on religion. Are there any requirements?

Thank you.

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The One

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Posted: 13 June 2005 at 10:57am

Salam to Ali Zaki and all!

Brother Ali, can you suggest me any website or live discussion regarding "Marriage between Muslim and Non-Muslim."?

Thank you.

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Ali Zaki

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Joined: 10 May 2005
Location: United States
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Posts: 217

Posted: 13 June 2005 at 11:08am

Peace to "The One",

First, a question (just personal curiosity), Why would you want to marry a Muslim women if you are not Muslim? Are you planning to have children? Don't you think they will be confused? What if your wifes religion requires her to do something that you (or you religion) disagree with? Will you allow her (and disobey your own personal beliefs/religion) or prevent her (and force her to disobey her religion)?

The issue of apostacy only applies to those who disavow their religion (i.e., convert to a different religion from Islam). Not following the religion (while still claiming the religion as yours) is a different matter all together, and is applicable to almost all Muslims in the world today.

Here is the relevent Fatwa (ruling) regarding this matter.

" 2406. * A Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim, and a male Muslim also cannot marry a non-Muslim woman who are not Ahlul Kitab. However, there is no harm in contracting temporary marriage with Jewish and Christians women, but the obligatory precaution is that a Muslim should not take them in permanent marriage. There are certain sects like Khawarij, Ghulat and Nawasib who claim to be Muslims, but are classified as non-Muslims. Muslim men and women cannot contract permanent or temporary marriage with them. "

SOURCE: http://www.al-islam.org/laws/marriage1.html

If a women marrys a non-Muslim, her marriage is considered invalid, however, this is not at all related to apolstacy.

Peace

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)

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herjihad

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Posted: 13 June 2005 at 11:53am

Bismillah,

It is very good that you are looking to your future with your prospective wife. What sect does she and her family follow? What do they believe about her marrying you?

As far as I know, most Muslims who are following their Islaam even somewhat would require a man who marries their daughter to become a Muslim. How she and her family looks at Islaam is vital to your success in marriage.

Some fathers would never accept a non-Muslim for their daughter. To be more exact, some would never accept someone of a different culture or even class. But I have seen families who were opposed to marriages accept them over time. Yet, overcoming a Muslimah marrying a non-Muslim is a most difficult scenario.

Islaam is a beautiful faith. Kindness, forgiveness, honor, human dignity and hard work are all aspects of it. You can find Islaam and not be the same as someone else. The pillars of faith must be understood, accepted, and followed. Allah, SWT, is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.

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AhmadJoyia

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Joined: 20 March 2005
Location: Pakistan
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Posts: 1161

Posted: 13 June 2005 at 4:22pm

Originally posted by The One

Hello Dear Brother Ahmad!

That was a good reply, thank you.

Now I am specifically asking my would be wife. Though there is no reservation regarding marriage in my religion, I heard that Muslims cannot have spouses of other religions. I want to know what will be her status according to Quran or Islam if she marries me. Would she be considered an apostate and not allowed to be a Muslim? I want our marriage to be completely based on religion. Are there any requirements?

Thank you.

My dear brother The One,

May I ask whats your religion on which you want your marriage to be based completely? Ofcourse, I can't assume everyone from India to be Hindu, therefore, its better to ask than assume.

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The One

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Posts: 62

Posted: 14 June 2005 at 6:07am

Salam to Ali Zaki!

Mr. Ali thank you for the website.

You asked me why I want to marry a Muslim woman. I can say that I want to marry my lover who is a Muslim woman. We are in love since many years. And yes, we will be having children. I dont think my children will be confused. I am a Hindu and no religion in the world contradicts with my religion, though people of other religions consider Hinduism to be contradicting with their beliefs. I will definitely allow her to follow her religion.

Is the Fatwa above applicable to every country? In India, though secular, does not have a Uniform Civil Code. Everyone is allowed to follow their law according to their religion. And their is no bar on inter-religious marriage in India.

Thank you.

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AhmadJoyia

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Joined: 20 March 2005
Location: Pakistan
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Posts: 1161

Posted: 14 June 2005 at 6:21am

My Dear Bro The One,

You are indeed an enlightened one among Hindus. I appreciate your approach towards other religions and especially for your loved ones. However, I am little curious that it would not be easy in your society where you live since not all can be assumed to be like you. So, how are you planning to deal with your family and society, especially once they bring "laws of Manu" to oppose your enlightment. I wish you a happy journey towards your love.

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Topic: Tomas- Can I go back to islam?
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Author	Message
Ali Zaki Senior Member Joined: 10 May 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 217	Posted: 13 June 2005 at 8:54am
	Salam to All, Here is an explanation of "Apostacy in Islam" from an academic source. Orignal Arabic (Quranic) terms are used and explained for clarity. ""Murtad" means apostate. Murtad can be of two types: fitri and milli. (1) Murtad Fitri means a person born of a Muslim parent and then he rejects Islam. Fitri means nature or natural...(2) "Murtad Milli" means a person who converted to Islam and then later on he rejects Islam. Milli is from millat which means a community. The term "murtad milli" implies that the person has apostated from his community. A former kãfir who became a Muslim (Murtad Milli) and then apostates (Murtad Milli) is given a second chance; if he repents, then he is not to be killed (i.e. punished. Please ignore the word "killed", as this applies only in a specific situation, and there is no consideration of the Sharia punishment in a non-Muslim state.) NOTE- This is a ruling according to the Shia Fiqh. SOURCE- Ayatullãh al-Khu'i's Takmilatu Minhãju 's-Salihiyn, vol. 1, pp. 324-337 for the ahãdith used by our jurists. WEB PAGE- http://www.al-islam.org/short/apostacy.htm, THIS PAGE ALSO CONTAINS A MUCH MORE LENGTHY DISCUSSION OF THIS TOPIC FOR THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED.
	"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad." Imam Ali (a.s.)
	IP Logged

The One Groupie Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 62	Posted: 13 June 2005 at 10:54am
	Hello Dear Brother Ahmad! That was a good reply, thank you. Now I am specifically asking my would be wife. Though there is no reservation regarding marriage in my religion, I heard that Muslims cannot have spouses of other religions. I want to know what will be her status according to Quran or Islam if she marries me. Would she be considered an apostate and not allowed to be a Muslim? I want our marriage to be completely based on religion. Are there any requirements? Thank you.
	IP Logged

The One Groupie Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 62	Posted: 13 June 2005 at 10:57am
	Salam to Ali Zaki and all! Brother Ali, can you suggest me any website or live discussion regarding "Marriage between Muslim and Non-Muslim."? Thank you.
	IP Logged

Ali Zaki Senior Member Joined: 10 May 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 217	Posted: 13 June 2005 at 11:08am
	Peace to "The One", First, a question (just personal curiosity), Why would you want to marry a Muslim women if you are not Muslim? Are you planning to have children? Don't you think they will be confused? What if your wifes religion requires her to do something that you (or you religion) disagree with? Will you allow her (and disobey your own personal beliefs/religion) or prevent her (and force her to disobey her religion)? The issue of apostacy only applies to those who disavow their religion (i.e., convert to a different religion from Islam). Not following the religion (while still claiming the religion as yours) is a different matter all together, and is applicable to almost all Muslims in the world today. Here is the relevent Fatwa (ruling) regarding this matter. " 2406. * A Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim, and a male Muslim also cannot marry a non-Muslim woman who are not Ahlul Kitab. However, there is no harm in contracting temporary marriage with Jewish and Christians women, but the obligatory precaution is that a Muslim should not take them in permanent marriage. There are certain sects like Khawarij, Ghulat and Nawasib who claim to be Muslims, but are classified as non-Muslims. Muslim men and women cannot contract permanent or temporary marriage with them. " SOURCE: http://www.al-islam.org/laws/marriage1.html If a women marrys a non-Muslim, her marriage is considered invalid, however, this is not at all related to apolstacy. Peace
	"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad." Imam Ali (a.s.)
	IP Logged

herjihad Senior Member Joined: 26 January 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2473	Posted: 13 June 2005 at 11:53am
	Bismillah, It is very good that you are looking to your future with your prospective wife. What sect does she and her family follow? What do they believe about her marrying you? As far as I know, most Muslims who are following their Islaam even somewhat would require a man who marries their daughter to become a Muslim. How she and her family looks at Islaam is vital to your success in marriage. Some fathers would never accept a non-Muslim for their daughter. To be more exact, some would never accept someone of a different culture or even class. But I have seen families who were opposed to marriages accept them over time. Yet, overcoming a Muslimah marrying a non-Muslim is a most difficult scenario. Islaam is a beautiful faith. Kindness, forgiveness, honor, human dignity and hard work are all aspects of it. You can find Islaam and not be the same as someone else. The pillars of faith must be understood, accepted, and followed. Allah, SWT, is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
	Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
	IP Logged

AhmadJoyia Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 1161	Posted: 13 June 2005 at 4:22pm
	*Originally posted by The One* Hello Dear Brother Ahmad! That was a good reply, thank you. Now I am specifically asking my would be wife. Though there is no reservation regarding marriage in my religion, I heard that Muslims cannot have spouses of other religions. I want to know what will be her status according to Quran or Islam if she marries me. Would she be considered an apostate and not allowed to be a Muslim? I want our marriage to be completely based on religion. Are there any requirements? Thank you. My dear brother The One, May I ask whats your religion on which you want your marriage to be based completely? Ofcourse, I can't assume everyone from India to be Hindu, therefore, its better to ask than assume.
	IP Logged

The One Groupie Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 62	Posted: 14 June 2005 at 6:07am
	Salam to Ali Zaki! Mr. Ali thank you for the website. You asked me why I want to marry a Muslim woman. I can say that I want to marry my lover who is a Muslim woman. We are in love since many years. And yes, we will be having children. I dont think my children will be confused. I am a Hindu and no religion in the world contradicts with my religion, though people of other religions consider Hinduism to be contradicting with their beliefs. I will definitely allow her to follow her religion. Is the Fatwa above applicable to every country? In India, though secular, does not have a Uniform Civil Code. Everyone is allowed to follow their law according to their religion. And their is no bar on inter-religious marriage in India. Thank you.
	IP Logged

AhmadJoyia Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 1161	Posted: 14 June 2005 at 6:21am
	My Dear Bro The One, You are indeed an enlightened one among Hindus. I appreciate your approach towards other religions and especially for your loved ones. However, I am little curious that it would not be easy in your society where you live since not all can be assumed to be like you. So, how are you planning to deal with your family and society, especially once they bring "laws of Manu" to oppose your enlightment. I wish you a happy journey towards your love.
	IP Logged