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Message Icon Topic: Tomas- Can I go back to islam? Post Reply Post New Topic
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SixNineteen
 
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Quote SixNineteen Replybullet Topic: Tomas- Can I go back to islam?
    Posted: 10 June 2005 at 10:28pm
Hi my name is Tomas from San Diego. I have one brutal question... few years ago, I took the shahada. Then after a year later, I became a christian (evangelical). Now, I am here on islamicity.com, ive been picking up the Quran and reading it more than I did the bible. And im, dare I say it, losing faith in the trinity. As of this day, i have no idea on who I should pray to.. I know its suppose to be 3 in 1; for example, praying to Jesus is like praying to the holy ghost and the Father at the same time. I tried looking up resources on the internet and asking other christians about my dillema concerning the trinity. Now deep in my heart, i feel a pull towards Islam. IF, and this is a big "IF", I am ever convinced in going back to islam, will it be too late for me to revert back to islam. Because i remember somewhere in the Quran where it said that once a muslim leaves islam, he may never go back and is condemned. I might have read it wrong or taken it out of context.. I just need some clarification. Thank you.

Edited by SixNineteen
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SoftHeart
 
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Quote SoftHeart Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2005 at 3:25am

As-salamu 'ala manittaba'al huda.
Peace be on those who follow the Guidance.

It was, of course, a big mistake in your life to have forsaken Islam, which, I am sure, you are feeling now in the form of your discomfort with your present way of life - not knowing whom to ask for your sustenance. It is clear that you want to, and I should say you need to, come out of this confusing state of mind about your very feeling of identity and existence.

Regarding what you said about "losing faith in the trinity" - it is to be expected once you try to go deep into Christianity and try to become a "pious, religious and devout Christian". This is because this idea is a direct contradiction to the Nature and Dignity of the Mighty Wise Creator as expressed in the Wisdom of His creation. Think of it with a calm mind - imagine that out of kindness, President Bush invites Clinton and Carter to stay with him at the White House and run the US together - what do you expect to happen? Will it be possible for all three of them to exercise equal power and authority in running the administration? No. The three of them will have three types of decisions on a matter and unless the other two make way for one of them, they will end up not taking a decision at all. And if two of them have to compromise their opinions for the third, then it is clear that all three of them are not equal - one of them has to be the boss. And if they do not compromise and want to be equal in every respect, lo and behold - Koreans are divided to North and South, Germans were East and West for many years, Pakistan was East and West and ultimately East Pakistan became independent Bangladesh; but the Universe in its entirety is one coordinated unit, bearing the architecture and demonstrating the wisdom of - One Lord. Every individual has his own way of thinking and of doing things, and the benefit of his expertise and skill can be best utilised when he's allowed to do things independently and in his own way.

Hence, President there has to be one; Principal of a college has to be one; Governor of a State is one; Chairman of Microsoft is Bill Gates alone and not even Mrs Gates with him; CEO of Chevron is one among so many shareholders - and Almighty Creator Master of this limitless universe are three although there are no shareholders in the universe His vast creation? It's ridiculous!

Surely, He is pure and clean of the insults that have been put on Him. Is it not that if there were any god along with Allah, they'd have both had separate worlds and tried to dominate the other, created unrest and ultimately would have both been destroyed - just like Iraq and Iran did, like India and Pakistan are still doing over Kashmir, like US and USSR did during the Cold War? Still, in the Universe, we do not see any such unrest - everyday the Sun rises in the east and sets in the West; day follows night and night follows the day; summer follows winter and winter follows the day, depicting an atmosphere of submission to One Lord.

I had also read the ayat you mentioned but from that ayat and knowledge about your case, I did not get the impression that one who has forsaken Islam once is barred from reentry.
The fatwa (solution/answer/decision) is something like this : if a Muslim leaves Islam, then the Islamic State would arrest him and adjure him to repent and return to Islam, and if he does - set him free, and if he does not - he should be killed.
However, the opportunity to leave Islam and return is limited to three times; the fourth time (or is it the third time), the door is closed and the murtad (one who has left Islam) should be killed.

Hence, dear Tomas, keep in mind that you are walking on Allah's land with a death sentence from Him, even if it cannot be or will not be implemented in practice in this world.

The ayat in question has a deeper meaning than just talking about people who have left Islam; it also seems to encompass those who are Muslims but not following it properly - Allah knows best. You may want to read a good tafsir on this matter, but your first duty now is to make up your mind to obey and follow what the Creator of the Universe has instructed through His numerous Messengers, including David, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them all).

May Allah guide you and us to His Light, and help you and us to hold on together to His Rope without being divided; may He forgive our sins, overlook our mistakes; and protect us from the fire.

Muhammad Shoyab

O Allah! We ask from you faith that's perfect, understanding that's correct, heart tha's humble, tongue that's true, knowledge that's useful, deeds accepted, and sins forgiven, repentance as advised.
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SixNineteen
 
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Quote SixNineteen Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2005 at 11:02am
Thank you SoftHeart for your reply.

I think one of the main reason I left islam was because of social and familial pressure. My family is a somewhat devout catholic filipino family. They are deep into their faith and they are involved in soo many superstitious beliefs. My grandma (catholic) died few years ago, and i was distraught on whether she was in the hands of God or in the hands of satan. I know that in the Quran, the people of the book (christians and jews) have some taste of God's paradise in the afterlife... does that apply to devout catholics as well? I TRUELY believe in one eternal God alone. The trinity just made things confusing, and God is not the author of confusion. From what I was taught, the trinity works in cooperation with each other and are acutally one "being" in 3 different states.. like H2O: Liquid, Gas and Solid. Another problem with christianity is the way they depict Jesus in the movies and in illustrations.. i guess it was my former muslim side taking effect. I hated the way they tried to imagine what Jesus looked and acted like. What was important was the WORDS, not the superficial aspects.
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2005 at 7:57pm

Bismillah,

Islaam is a comfort to us and a guide to us in our lives.  Doesn't it feel better to be involved with a religion that makes so much more sense than the others?  There is a lot of division in terms of sects in Islaam.  There are many different ways to be a Muslim, and many of them are great.  None of them say that Allah, SWT, has to murder his most devout follower in order to forgive our sins.  Allah, SWT, is in charge of forgiveness:  not a priest, rabbi, or sheikh. 

Pray to Allah, SWT, for forgiveness and guidance, and he will guide you, brother.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Quote SoftHeart Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2005 at 3:05am
Originally posted by herjihad

There is a lot of division in terms of sects in Islaam.  There are many different ways to be a Muslim, and many of them are great. 

Salam sister

Although it does not deal with Tomas' case, but I could not just agree with your comment as quoted above. It is true that Muslims have become divided for many reasons, but Islam, mind it, ISLAM has not.

Has not Allah ordered us to "hold on together to the rope of Allah and not be divided"? Has not the Messenger of Allah, on him be peace and blessings, said on one occasion that the ummah will be divided into 73 divisions and that only one division would be the rightly guided and the others doomed, and that rightly guided division is the division of the Messenger of Allah and his Companions?

Hence, to be a Muslim, there is only one way - the way of the Messenger of Allah (saws). The madh'habs, the tariqas are all ways to keep in touch with Rasulullah's way.

I think you are aware of these concepts and it was a "slip of the keyboard" to have said there are many ways to be a Muslim.

Allah guide us all.

ma'as-salam

Muhammad Shoyab

O Allah! We ask from you faith that's perfect, understanding that's correct, heart tha's humble, tongue that's true, knowledge that's useful, deeds accepted, and sins forgiven, repentance as advised.
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2005 at 8:26am

My Dear Brother SixNineteen

First of all, I must welcome you to this forum. I hope if you stay here for a while, the forum shall provide you the information that may be suitable for you to look at religions from multi-directions.

Now coming to your question of reverting to Islam, I think, since there is no compulsion in religion in Islam as well as we know that Allah is ever mercifull and ever forgiver, therefore, I don't think there is any specified limit in reverting to Islam, as long as one dies in the state of Islam. This being said, of course, Allah's mercy is for those who beg for it, secondly, no one on this earth knows when his hour is established for death. Nevertheless, I have not come across any verse in Quran which limits a person to reverting back to Islam. I may be wrong, but then can you or bro SoftHeart send me the reference to the verse from Quran?

For Bro SoftHeart 

I totally disagree with your point of view when you say

The fatwa (solution/answer/decision) is something like this : if a Muslim leaves Islam, then the Islamic State would arrest him and adjure him to repent and return to Islam, and if he does - set him free, and if he does not - he should be killed.

This is a not a correct view especially in the light of the verses in Quran which categorically state that there is no compulsion in religion. I have read about the punishment of a deserter in Quran but not for the apostate. Of course, there is a big difference between the two. Interchanging the two words to mean the same is a big fallacy, one should alway avoid it.

Again I don't agree with you when you say


However, the opportunity to leave Islam and return is limited to three times; the fourth time (or is it the third time), the door is closed and the murtad (one who has left Islam) should be killed.

Kindly let me know the source of your info as I never read it in Quran nor I know of any sunnah or hadith of our beloved Prophet Mohammad.

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Quote The One Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2005 at 10:13am
Hello everyone!

I should say that I am ashamed about not knowing most of the technical terms with respect to Islam that you have been using in here, even though I have many Muslim friends. We dont generally discuss religion. I feel it to be worth nothing to lose a friend over a silly discussion over religion, the theories of which cannot be proved but have to be realised individually.

Regarding the present discussion, until now I thought that "Fatwa" was just a law and has nothing to do with individual beliefs. Now that I have read something about a deserter or apostate in Islam, I further want to know about some other things which you may also feel relevant to the present topic.

I want to know, what is the status of the non-Muslims according to Islam?

I did not understand the difference between a "deserter" and an "apostate". As of I know there is no difference between the two. I mean, considering Tomas, whether he is a deserter or an apostate.

If my wife being Muslim before marriage wants to convert to my religion, whatever my religion may be, would she be considered a deserter and according to Fatwa, will she be given death penalty?

Advance thanks for your replies.


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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2005 at 8:18am

My Dear Bro The One,

I also welcome you this board and hence the discussion. I hope you shall enjoy your stay and educate us through sharing your wisdom and knowldge.

Coming to your questions, since I am not a scholar of Islam, so I may not provide you the best answers to your entire satisfaction. Therefore, I would apologize it before I can say anything. Now as far as your question of status of the non-Muslims according to Islam is concerned, I think, since all humans are son of one man, and we know him as our beloved prophet Adam, therefore they all are equal in every respect. To those who are muslims, I call them the enlightened ones and to those who are non-mulsims, they have just not recieved the enlightment. By enlightment, I mean, the right path to succeed. Among the non-muslims, there are those to whom message of Islam has reached, they have studied it with all their human faculties using wisdom and logic, and then rejected it. It is these people, the Quran tells us, are termed as Kafir. Hence there destination in the hereafter is defined as Hell. On the other hand those non-muslims to whom this message has not reached or reached but not in a proper way (only Prophet Mohammad could provide the proper way), hence there matter is with God and we know He is best in His Justice. Therefore, in now a days, when Prophet Mohammad is not among us, we the muslims, really can't make any kind of labling on other non-muslims, simply because even with our all endeavors to convey the message of Allah to non-muslims, we can't convey it properly as it should be done. However, its our duty to convey this message of Allah in whatever capacity we have, to the non-muslims, the result is with Allah. If He wills, He may provide guidance to the non-muslims. There is no compulsion in Islam, at all.

Now coming to you second question concerning difference between a deserter and a apostate. Well dester is a term used in any military formation where some one among the troops, run away from his military duty when on active duty. The penalty for this act, in any military law, is a death penalty, simply because of the severity of the action. So, in the time of Prophet Mohammad, when the muslims had to face the enemies on the battle ground, few people, just before the war, decided to desert the muslim army and went to join the enemies. Ofcourse this had a great demoralizing effect on the muslim army. Hence, in such a situation, the people who absonded the muslim army, though changed their faith, but it wasn't their faith  that was called to account but their act of desertion at the very sensitive time in the battle field. However, many people, knowingly or unknowingly, mistook this action as apostate without realising that it was a simple act of desertion. I hope, now the difference between the two would be clear than ever.

In the light of the fore going, your wife can't be considered deserter, if she has otherwise, not absconded a muslim army at such a crucial time of battle field. Rest Allah knows the best.



Edited by AhmadJoyia
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