Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Groups Women (Sisters)
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Culture & Community : Groups Women (Sisters)
Message Icon Topic: Our baby has Down Syndome...advice needed Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 5 Next >>
Author Message
Angela
 Christian
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 July 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2555
Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2007 at 3:12am
My mother in law was told my brother in law Austin was going to be down syndrome.  He's a very healthy normal 18 year old boy.

But, even if not.  My husband worked with the mentally challenged until his accident 5 years ago.  We have a special place in our hearts for these wonderful people.

One of my best friends growing up was a man who was 14 years older than me.  He was down syndrome and very much like a child.  He played baseball with us and was very sweet.  He works a job and is an honorary volunteer fireman.  He works very hard at the fire station helping with fundraisers, education programs for the kids and other such things.  When I think of my little town of 2,000 people, there isn't a person between 20-45 who has not played baseball with Stevie, or seen him at the school fire education programs. 

Stevie has touched the lives of many wonderful people.  Its hard to see him aging so fast.  Downs children physically age much faster.  He's leading a wonderful life and brought joy and smiles to our lives.

Before I became Mormon, I was Russian Orthodox.  The Church taught that people like Steve were called "Holy Fools" Nurodiya.  They were protected by God and could not sin because of the innocence of their minds.  They are very special spirits that are sent here with imperfect bodies as their test, but more as a test to all of us.  They come to teach us patience, compassion and love. 

There are many groups out there that help parents of down syndrome children.  There are also varying levels of the condition.  Stevie was very high functioning.  I would suggest talking to your Imam and suggesting to your husband that the two of you go to counseling.

At worst, if you cannot care for the child, there are adoption programs and care facilities.  That is a heartbreaking decision, but its what my husband did for a living for 10 years.  He enjoyed working with these boys.  If you want to ask him some questions, send them to me over PM, I'll give them to him and send you the responses. 

I will have you in my prayers 222.


IP IP Logged
abuayisha
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 October 1999
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4336
Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2007 at 4:45pm

Originally posted by Angela

My mother in law was told my brother in law Austin was going to be down syndrome.  He's a very healthy normal 18 year old boy.

Which test was she given?  Just to make sure we're not comparing apples with oranges.

IP IP Logged
Angela
 Christian
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 July 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2555
Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 05 December 2007 at 4:38am
I'm not sure abuayisha.  My mother-in-law died before I met my husband from complications from gastric bypass surgery.  The only reason I know this is that my father-in-law is still outraged that the insurance company told them they would pay for an abortion but not for the delivery because the child was going to be down syndrome.  The doctor threatened to side with my in-laws in a lawsuit and the insurance company changed their mind.  Austin was born healthy...so whatever tests were wrong...

But, even if he hadn't been healthy, my Mother-in-Law did not want to abort her child.  She was a nurse and strong in her faith that abortion is sinful.  She was chosing to have the baby no matter what.

But, that was secondary to the rest of my comments, the idea that someone is "less" because they are Down's or that they cannot have value is wrong.  People like my friend Stevie show that they can have a lasting and positive impact on the world. 

I remember assisting the firemen get ready for a banquet.  Stevie helped me hang the decorations and later asked me to dance at the banquet.  In our society, that's not wrong.  It was a sweet innocent dance.  Its very hard for Stevie at times, people treat him a certain way, he's not st**id or useless and it hurts him when people discount him.  Now, there are times his limitations must be explained to him.  He wanted to learn to drive the trucks.  He's innocent, like a 5 year old.  So, sometimes he needs guidance and a little extra attention, but that doesn't mean he's less of a person.

Its not a shame to have a sweet innocent child, its a shame to forget that all we have and all we get is from God.  If God grants us protection over one of his special children, we should take it as a test and a blessing, not a mark on our families or a curse. 

As Muslims, I think that would be center to a situation like this...accepting God's will.
IP IP Logged
abuayisha
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 October 1999
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4336
Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 05 December 2007 at 8:06am

Originally posted by Angela

As Muslims, I think that would be center to a situation like this...accepting God's will.

The Muslim army in Syria was also hit by an epidemic. So heavy was the toll taken by it that the Amir Omar ibn AlKhatab himself had to go to Syria to study things. At Saraa, he was received by army leaders. They implored him to keep out of the affected area. The Calpih sought the advice of leading Companions. They differed. At last Omar chose to go back. Seeing this, Abu Obaida said "Omar, are you running away from the decree of Allah?"

 

"Yes," replied Omar, "I am running away from the decree of Allah to the decree of Allah."

 

IP IP Logged
Israfil
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3984
Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 05 December 2007 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by 222dnallohc

Assalamu Alaikum,

I am currently 14 weeks pregnant with our second child.  After some testing, we found out that our baby has Down Syndrome.  We have been given the choice as to whether to let the pregnancy continue or not.  Obviously it is forbidden for us to terminate the pregnancy...and I dont want to do that anyway.  My husband unfortunately does not think that he can handle this and he wants me to end the pregnancy.  He thinks the baby being disabled will tear our family apart and it will be a disgrace for him to have a son that has the problems that come with Downs.  He told me that in his culture, he is Arabic, that its a disgrace to have a child like that.

Needless to say I am absolutely shocked to hear this come out of his mouth.  I want to raise my son (we found out the baby is a boy), but my husband does not want him.

This seems like such an impossible situation for us right now.  How do I get through this?  I feel like he is trying to push me to do something I dont believe is right.  We are both Muslim, so I would have thought he would respond differently...thats why I am so shocked at his words.

What do I do?

Down Syndrome is a psychologically devastating disorder among other developmental disorders in children. I was fortunate enough as one of my clinicals for my license in Neuroscience to evaluate a child with Down Syndrome. The parents, both Caucasian, wanted to care for the child. Now, I understand that perhaps culturally, we all think different or perhaps other factors play into why we would or would not accept a child with a developmental disorder. I believe not only the disorder itself, is devasting to parents but the life expectancy as well. On average, most children that grow up into adults have an average life expectancy of 49.5 years of age with mental retardation that possibly fluctuates between IQ ranges of 50-70 (Considered mild by clinical standards) to severe mental retardation (35-50).

Decisions to terminate pregancy is largely based upon what "the parents do not want to deal with" and quite honestly, if I were in this situation I wouldn't want to deal with it either. HOWEVER, because life is indeed precious and important, it is also important to not terminate possible life all beause of what makes us feel good and what doesn't it should be based upon the decision between both parents. I think the only good reason to terminate a fetus especially if trisomy 21 is detected is because the child will not have a full life and that, letting it live only to 50 years of age without accomplishing all possible goals in life is distressing. Perhaps that is the only argument to terminate a child, other than that the ethical implications are subjective and must be made on case by case situation.

IP IP Logged
Angela
 Christian
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 July 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2555
Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 06 December 2007 at 12:38am
Originally posted by abuayisha

Originally posted by Angela

As Muslims, I think that would be center to a situation like this...accepting God's will.

The Muslim army in Syria was also hit by an epidemic. So heavy was the toll taken by it that the Amir Omar ibn AlKhatab himself had to go to Syria to study things. At Saraa, he was received by army leaders. They implored him to keep out of the affected area. The Calpih sought the advice of leading Companions. They differed. At last Omar chose to go back. Seeing this, Abu Obaida said "Omar, are you running away from the decree of Allah?"

 

"Yes," replied Omar, "I am running away from the decree of Allah to the decree of Allah."

I have a serious disagreement with this comparison.  Abortion is an unnatural act.  Not going into a plague area is just common sense. 

Abortion is something I am completely against, in my humble opinion life is created by God's will.  If he does not intend for a child to be born, its not. 

Now, that being said, that is MY opinion and MY choice.  I'm anti-abortion, but not anti-choice.  222 doesn't want to terminate, her husband is pressuring her on cultural notions of shame and not on a knowledge of the possibilities good or bad.  That is why I suggested counseling and if at worst adoption.  She should not be forced to do something she regrets and he should be drug out of the stoneage into reality.  Down Syndrome children are special.  Are they easy to raise? 

I disagree with Israfil's assessment.  But, I've known more than just Stevie through my husband's work.  There are various levels of down syndrome, some very severe cases never lead a "normal" life...others are wonderful, loving people who have jobs, homes and live almost completely independently.

So, what is God's will?  Why did he allow for this child to be created and with this condition?  I go back to the Orthodox belief that these children are messengers of patience, compassion and love.  They test our hearts and our souls.  They are special and deserve love, not to be despised because they are different.  In Russia, its said that a person who harms a Nurodniya is going to hell. 



IP IP Logged
Israfil
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3984
Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 06 December 2007 at 12:44am
Angela, you disgaree with me for religious reasons alone not necessarily medical one. We don't know God's will and only interpret "will" by what we perceive as either good or bad and whether God decreed it or not. I don't understand your idea of "severe" and "less severe" so maybe you can interpret what you are referring to. I mean, I've actually assessed patients with this genetic disorder so it's not like I'm blabbering about something I don't know.  It's easy to deal with something by putting a religious spin on it, heck I've read cases in India where an autistic child was thought to be sent by God because of its condition. I believe in God's will, but I also believe in the human brain and the intelligence of science. I have spoekn with parents who find it hard to deal with children with disorders. Perhaps looking at things in a religious matter is good, but it is no less sufficient for a medical assessment.

Edited by Israfil
IP IP Logged
Saladin
Male Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Sri Lanka
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 575
Quote Saladin Replybullet Posted: 06 December 2007 at 1:04am

Assalamu Alaikum Sister,

I really dont know what to say here but pray that things work out right.May Allah guide and help you during these difficult times.

I had a friend in highschool who had Down's syndrome.I didnt know what it was then.I just thought he was slow and slightly challenged mentally.He wasnt active in sports and had learning difficulties.I should say that his family;his mother and sister and our principal in school supported him very much.His sister was a doctor and due to her efforts,we saw a gradual improvement in him.He graduated with me and i've lost touch with him since but i've a feeling that he'll be doing good.Allah knows best.

Sister,i dont think abortion is right in this case as people with Down's syndrome have lived good lives.It would be against Islam.Understanding and support would help much.You should make your husband understand that being born healthy and normal doesnt mean a good life is guaranteed.The healthy and macho son could be run over by a bus and end up being handicapped or in a coma.Perhaps your husband should abort his unhealthy mentality.

I think the following site will be really helpful.Its got a lot of information.

http://children.webmd.com/tc/down-syndrome-topic-overview

   



Edited by Saladin
'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 5 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com