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Message Icon Topic: Rape victim gets 200 lashes Post Reply Post New Topic
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 30 December 2007 at 8:04am

 

 I forgot to mention the punishment for adultry (or fornication) in the Law of Moses a.s. Please read the old Testament and we will find some very harsh / severe punishments there. The punishment for stoning the adulterer is there in that book. So beautiful was that law which even if implemented in those western countries would rid them of most evils.

 So what would Anatolian say about that law. Was it harsh and merciless?

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Saladin
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Quote Saladin Replybullet Posted: 31 December 2007 at 7:55am

Minuteman wrote,

I hope no death penalty is prescribed in the quran. I know my friends will not like what I have just said. But it is so. There is no stoning to death in Islam. I do not want to start a debate on that subject. Thanks.

Salaam brother,

In my opinion,death penalty did not exist in the early period of the Islamic state because Laws were being gradually absorbed in tandem with the moral and social development of the state.This is how i see the laws for adultery/fornication developed over time.

And for the harlots among your women, call four witnesses, from among your people, against them. Thus, if they testify, then confine them to their houses until death claims them or God ordains for them another way. And for the two, who are guilty of lewdness from among you, punish them both [with a beating]. Then if they repent and [promise to] correct their behavior, then let them be. Indeed God accepts repentance most; Infinitely Merciful. [4:15-16]

For the male and the female guilty of fornication, flog them both a hundred stripes. Let not mercy for them overtake you in the implementation of God's law, if you truly believe in God and the Final Day. And let the implementation of the punishment be witnessed by a group of believers. [24:2]

[4:15-16] was revealed in the early stages of Islam as a temporary measure as per the conditions then.It was then preceded by [24:2] when the conditions (moral and social) improved and hence tougher laws came in.Still no death penalty.Death penalty became law only after the following verse was revealed.

 The punishment of those, who declare a war against God and His messenger and try to spread unrest in the land is nothing but that they be sentenced to a painful death or to crucifixion or that their one hand and one foot of the opposite side be amputated or that they be sent in exile. This punishment is a disgrace for them in the life of this world, and in the hereafter, a great punishment awaits them. Except for those who repent [and correct their behavior] before you catch them. Be mindful that God is Forgiving, Merciful [for the repentant]. [5:33-34]

Hadiths mention the prophet handing out stoning for adultery/fornication since this revelation.Would that mean the prophet was acting in violation of the Quran as in [24:2]?

No.It only means that the prophet dealt adultery/fornication since then as fasaad fil-ardh ie.spreading unrest/immorality as in this case.

Thats my understanding on this.I'm open to consider your opinions.


 

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Quote Saladin Replybullet Posted: 31 December 2007 at 11:21pm

Salaam,

Elaborating on the death penalty, besides Qisas, it only applies when a crime fits as fasaad fil-ardh, ie.creating unrest/corruption in the land. Prostitution, habitual fornication, rape, homosexuality and incest fits as such. In my opinion, adultery would have been considered as such after the Islamic state reached its highest standard.

If we are to consider the penalty for zina [adultery/fornication] only from the verse 24:2 and ignore the sunnah, then i think all the above mentioned crimes would also come under zina and hence the penalty for all these crimes will be only 100 lashes. But then we will be contradicting Quranic injunction as in verse 5:33.

Therefore, the only way we can harmonize both the Quranic injunctions is by following the sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) ie. death penalty for zina that constitutes as fasaad fil-ardh and 100 lashes for zina that doesnt.

 

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Quote Saladin Replybullet Posted: 31 December 2007 at 11:41pm

Salaam,

We rejoiced the Saudi king's pardon of the Qatif girl as some great justice been done. In my opinion, this is what should have happened in a real sharia.

The girl and the boy should have been pardoned for their only proven misconduct, ie. meeting alone though unrelated and let go with no hassles, on account of having suffered rape and sodomy.

All the rapists should have been stoned to death.

Justice as yet, has not been served.

I'm just wondering how the girl or the boy would feel, if they encounter their rapists on the streets in a few years time.

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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2008 at 6:57am

 

 Saladin, thank you for advising me on the subject of fornication that it is equal to a war against Allah and his messenger. That it is like fasaad fil ardh. Thank you. It is better to leave this subject otherwise it will become a debate. Thanks.

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