IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Rape victim gets 200 lashes

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Saladin
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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 1:38am

Salaam,

I'm not a sheik or scholar but this is how i see adultery was dealt with during the prophet's(pbuh) time.If i'm wrong here any certified person can correct me.

In the prophet's reign,sharia to say shortly "closed all doors to evil and opened all doors to good".A person would have hardly had the necessity to commit adultery because marriage was promoted and all tempting factors for adultery were rid of.Death by stoning was more a deterrent than a punishment.It only happens when the guilty are caught in the act and 4 witnesses testify against them.Or if the guilty confesses to it 4 times.Less than 4 witnesses or 4 confessions cant convict a person no matter how evident it may be,say by pregnancy. And people rarely dared to make false accusations and such people were lashed.

People were god fearing and righteous then,they wanted God's laws to protect the sanctity and morality of their society and they abided by the rules even if they had to be stoned.

'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'

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Azaleah

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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 4:37am

Adultery is done by an unmarried woman or man and punishable by 80 lashes for their atonement of sin. While fornication were done by a married woman/man and the atonement is Rajjam or stoning to death.

What happen to the Palestinian girl accordingly is that, she is with a man not her mahram, in a car when she was raped. She faced 80 lashing because of that and the Sharian increases it to 200 lashes when her lawyer appeal to lessen the verdict and the lawyer as well, were debarred!!

But what I am not so sure is, do they have witness to testify that indeed she is in that car with a man not her mahram, willingly? Or she was picked-up against her will by that man and raped by his companion? The news i read isnt that clear...

And what I want to know more is, whats the basis of the King to pardon her? Shariah Law is not a man-made law that anyone can have their fingers on it. It is a God's law and only Allah can changed it...what went wrong?? Or maybe they only realized their mistake after reviewing the case due to the clamor from media and the havoc it created? hmmmm

Leah

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martha

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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 5:06am

Azaleah, you said:-

That is not right. I have pasted the following from an Islamic site:-

it is to be noted that the punishment specified for an unmarried person guilty of fornication in the Shari`ah is 100lashes

As for the punishment specified in the Shari`ah for adulterer or adulteress, it is stoning to death the married.

I will post the link directly after this.

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

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martha

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Posted: 28 December 2007 at 5:08am

www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=111799 - 77k -

I hope this is helpful to you

Salaams

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

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Saladin
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Posted: 30 December 2007 at 7:18am

Israfil,

Anatolian wasnt mentioning what you said you agreed with him on.He was criticizing the prophet and sharia as being unjust and incompassionate.

Most of us living in morally bankcrupt societies would need not just a second chance but multiple chances.Such punishments apply only to states that are ruled by sharia and sharia comes with all the means for people to avoid the crimes that lead to such punishments.

'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'

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Saladin
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Posted: 30 December 2007 at 7:28am

Angela,

Punishments in sharia are not for purification.Like you rightly said no amount of punishments can purify an unrepentant person.The hadith clearly mentions the prophet giving the woman 3 chances to purify herself by seeking Allah's forgiveness,which she did.The 4th instance the law had to take course.

Suicide by remorse? No.Obedience to Law.

Sharia is flawed? No.If we are to understand it from contemporary so-called sharias and come to conclusions then our understanding is flawed.

'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'

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minuteman

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Posted: 30 December 2007 at 7:43am

Yes, even though the punishments are harsh, or appear to be harsh, it is not so. In the real Islamic society, there would be no compulsion in the matter of choosing one's religion. That is a good freedom of choice and peaceful living.

The punishment for stealing is to cut the hand of the man thief or lady thief. That may appear to be harsh but it is not so. If every one is given equal opportunity to learn and progress and get job and if the poor are well looked after by system of Zakat, then there is no room, no need to steal anything. Even then if some one steals, he/she disturbs the public. May steal valuables or some important Will. That is not allowed.

Same goes for the Zina. If there is easy way to get married and live a respectable life then it cannot be allowed to do any extra marital activity. I am sure that even the christians will also not allow it. But the situation has become so bad in the christian countries that they have all forgotten about a pure way of life. Now they are surely afraid that if such a punishment is implemented or acted upon then many will be killed or wounded. That is no excuse. Why should any one try to do any dirty work in the society in the first place??

If any one wants a clean society then he/she should be prepared for the harsh punishments. There is no other way. The matter of stoning is okay. But I hope no death penalty is prescribed in the quran. I know my friends will not like what I have just said. But it is so. There is no stoning to death in Islam. I do not want to start a debate on that subject. Thanks.

If any one is bad some one must suffer

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minuteman

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Posted: 30 December 2007 at 7:59am

Originally posted by Anatolian

Purification means stoned to death? What "purification" is that if she would
not live the remainder of her life in pureity? From what I understood she
commited the sin once and asked for forgiveness. Muhammed wouldn't
forgive her at once because he knew what was to be done...death. Because
she was pregnant he postponed it till the child was able to survive, at best,
without her.

Is this what Sharia is? Is this what the fundementalists in London and
Amsterdam want to achieve? A seperate Sharia based law? Do native
Englishmen really want to see Piccadilly Square run with the blood of
adulters and sinners?

Anatolian, please do not worry. Nobody is going to kill (stone) any one in London or Amsterdam. They can do as much Zina (fornication) as they like in London. Nobody will say anything.

But in London, the law used to be that you could do what you liked (I hope you understand) in Hyde Park. Nobody will say anything. But, in the end, a detective will follow you and if you pay anything to the lady then he will catch you and you will appear in the court next day. There will be no stoning. So do not worry. Only a news item usd to appear in the "News of the World" newspaper.

About any one asking for the Sharia laws in England, it may be for themselves (Muslims) and not for others. But that is a long way off. NO IMMEDIATE threat to anyone. At least it shows that some people (Muslims) are terribly worried about the state of affairs (too much fornication) in those countries.

If any one is bad some one must suffer

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Topic: Rape victim gets 200 lashes
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Author	Message
Saladin Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Sri Lanka Online Status: Offline Posts: 575	Posted: 28 December 2007 at 1:38am
	Salaam, I'm not a sheik or scholar but this is how i see adultery was dealt with during the prophet's(pbuh) time.If i'm wrong here any certified person can correct me. In the prophet's reign,sharia to say shortly "closed all doors to evil and opened all doors to good".A person would have hardly had the necessity to commit adultery because marriage was promoted and all tempting factors for adultery were rid of.Death by stoning was more a deterrent than a punishment.It only happens when the guilty are caught in the act and 4 witnesses testify against them.Or if the guilty confesses to it 4 times.Less than 4 witnesses or 4 confessions cant convict a person no matter how evident it may be,say by pregnancy. And people rarely dared to make false accusations and such people were lashed. People were god fearing and righteous then,they wanted God's laws to protect the sanctity and morality of their society and they abided by the rules even if they had to be stoned.
	'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
	IP Logged

Azaleah Groupie Joined: 06 December 2007 Location: Philippines Online Status: Offline Posts: 73	Posted: 28 December 2007 at 4:37am
	Adultery is done by an unmarried woman or man and punishable by 80 lashes for their atonement of sin. While fornication were done by a married woman/man and the atonement is Rajjam or stoning to death. What happen to the Palestinian girl accordingly is that, she is with a man not her mahram, in a car when she was raped. She faced 80 lashing because of that and the Sharian increases it to 200 lashes when her lawyer appeal to lessen the verdict and the lawyer as well, were debarred!! But what I am not so sure is, do they have witness to testify that indeed she is in that car with a man not her mahram, willingly? Or she was picked-up against her will by that man and raped by his companion? The news i read isnt that clear... And what I want to know more is, whats the basis of the King to pardon her? Shariah Law is not a man-made law that anyone can have their fingers on it. It is a God's law and only Allah can changed it...what went wrong?? Or maybe they only realized their mistake after reviewing the case due to the clamor from media and the havoc it created? hmmmm
	Leah
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martha Senior Member Joined: 30 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1141	Posted: 28 December 2007 at 5:06am
	Azaleah, you said:- Adultery is done by an unmarried woman or man and punishable by 80 lashes for their atonement of sin. While fornication were done by a married woman/man and the atonement is Rajjam or stoning to death. That is not right. I have pasted the following from an Islamic site:- it is to be noted that the punishment specified for an unmarried person guilty of fornication in the Shari`ah is 100lashes As for the punishment specified in the Shari`ah for adulterer or adulteress, it is stoning to death the married. I will post the link directly after this.
	some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
	IP Logged

martha Senior Member Joined: 30 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1141	Posted: 28 December 2007 at 5:08am
	www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=111799 - 77k - I hope this is helpful to you Salaams
	some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
	IP Logged

Saladin Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Sri Lanka Online Status: Offline Posts: 575	Posted: 30 December 2007 at 7:18am
	Israfil, Anatolian wasnt mentioning what you said you agreed with him on.He was criticizing the prophet and sharia as being unjust and incompassionate. Most of us living in morally bankcrupt societies would need not just a second chance but multiple chances.Such punishments apply only to states that are ruled by sharia and sharia comes with all the means for people to avoid the crimes that lead to such punishments.
	'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
	IP Logged

Saladin Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Sri Lanka Online Status: Offline Posts: 575	Posted: 30 December 2007 at 7:28am
	Angela, Punishments in sharia are not for purification.Like you rightly said no amount of punishments can purify an unrepentant person.The hadith clearly mentions the prophet giving the woman 3 chances to purify herself by seeking Allah's forgiveness,which she did.The 4th instance the law had to take course. Suicide by remorse? No.Obedience to Law. Sharia is flawed? No.If we are to understand it from contemporary so-called sharias and come to conclusions then our understanding is flawed.
	'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
	IP Logged

minuteman Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1642	Posted: 30 December 2007 at 7:43am
	Yes, even though the punishments are harsh, or appear to be harsh, it is not so. In the real Islamic society, there would be no compulsion in the matter of choosing one's religion. That is a good freedom of choice and peaceful living. The punishment for stealing is to cut the hand of the man thief or lady thief. That may appear to be harsh but it is not so. If every one is given equal opportunity to learn and progress and get job and if the poor are well looked after by system of Zakat, then there is no room, no need to steal anything. Even then if some one steals, he/she disturbs the public. May steal valuables or some important Will. That is not allowed. Same goes for the Zina. If there is easy way to get married and live a respectable life then it cannot be allowed to do any extra marital activity. I am sure that even the christians will also not allow it. But the situation has become so bad in the christian countries that they have all forgotten about a pure way of life. Now they are surely afraid that if such a punishment is implemented or acted upon then many will be killed or wounded. That is no excuse. Why should any one try to do any dirty work in the society in the first place?? If any one wants a clean society then he/she should be prepared for the harsh punishments. There is no other way. The matter of stoning is okay. But I hope no death penalty is prescribed in the quran. I know my friends will not like what I have just said. But it is so. There is no stoning to death in Islam. I do not want to start a debate on that subject. Thanks.
	If any one is bad some one must suffer
	IP Logged

minuteman Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1642	Posted: 30 December 2007 at 7:59am
	*Originally posted by Anatolian* Purification means stoned to death? What "purification" is that if she would not live the remainder of her life in pureity? From what I understood she commited the sin once and asked for forgiveness. Muhammed wouldn't forgive her at once because he knew what was to be done...death. Because she was pregnant he postponed it till the child was able to survive, at best, without her. Is this what Sharia is? Is this what the fundementalists in London and Amsterdam want to achieve? A seperate Sharia based law? Do native Englishmen really want to see Piccadilly Square run with the blood of adulters and sinners? Anatolian, please do not worry. Nobody is going to kill (stone) any one in London or Amsterdam. They can do as much Zina (fornication) as they like in London. Nobody will say anything. But in London, the law used to be that you could do what you liked (I hope you understand) in Hyde Park. Nobody will say anything. But, in the end, a detective will follow you and if you pay anything to the lady then he will catch you and you will appear in the court next day. There will be no stoning. So do not worry. Only a news item usd to appear in the "News of the World" newspaper. About any one asking for the Sharia laws in England, it may be for themselves (Muslims) and not for others. But that is a long way off. NO IMMEDIATE threat to anyone. At least it shows that some people (Muslims) are terribly worried about the state of affairs (too much fornication) in those countries.
	If any one is bad some one must suffer
	IP Logged