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Message Icon Topic: Why (and how) women cheat? Post Reply Post New Topic
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ZamanH
 
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 28 July 2005 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by Israfil

Of course Zaman chooses not to repsond to me because as another man I do not share this viee and I've proven the err of this type of logic. But if you wish I can show Hadith.....


Sure, I will be grateful. i will answer Nausheen, after you show me the hadith.


Edited by ZamanH
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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ZamanH
 
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 28 July 2005 at 10:57pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah,

Zaman, please define cheating. It seems if person A is obviously and materially harmed by another (B), where A and B are locked in a situation when they are not supposed to do this, only then you call it cheating. If the actions do not bring any obvious material harm, then for you it is not cheating. Is this so? 

If a man is having sex in any relationship other than a legal marriage, he is cheating his own soul even if he does not believe to have cheated his wedded wife! - because he committed adultery, thus followed his nafs and corrupted his soul.

Marriage is a commitment, and that commitment entails one not to commit infedility. When a man engages himself in a relationship which he is not supposed to engaged in, he commits infedility to the one who is in an intimate legal relationship with him ie his wife.  Not only this, if there are children from his marriage, he is even cheating his children, if he spends his time and attention outside the household in a haram setup.

If a man gambles, or spends his money in any other illegal way, that deprive his wife and kids, even that is cheating, then how come, spending his emotions, his attention, and his time in an illegal way, that deprive his wife and kids of these benefits will not be cheating?

Maa salaama,

Nausheen


I know,a man must give equal attention to all his wives, otherwise, he is neglecting some of them.

But duties of woman to her husband include obeying him. Duties of husband is essentially to fullfil her materialistic needs. (This I believe to be natural human trait because this was practised,  in all the human societies, including the islamic ones). And it is possible for man to protect more than one woman, but not for woman to follow more than one man at the same time. That is the reason, I believe that man doesn't cheat his wife by having sex outside marriage, he cheats another man, though. That was the norm followed in all the societies of the world before modern western ideas were accepted.

Also, I am not absolving or defending the man who has sex outside marriage. I am only opposing this particular western (and non-islamic) concept that is increasingly being accepted by the Muslims.



Edited by ZamanH
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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Quote firewall Replybullet Posted: 28 July 2005 at 11:00pm
adultery is forbidden (haram), be it for man or woman. 



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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 29 July 2005 at 9:09pm
Well somebody beat me to it, but of course Zaman wants the Hadith regarding the bringing of another woman to the house of the man and whether or not its considered cheating. Obviously again he will not respond to me, perhap shaving met his match I don't know but its freggin common sense bro. Unless you cannot comprehend the concept of having an extra-marital affair. BTW the concept of having an extra-marital affair is not a western idea. Only an idiot (not including you) with a small wee pee brain would think that. In fact, many prmitive human socities had the one man one woman base. Of course there are tribes whose family is of polagamy, but a lot of times these are considered cheiftains or those who have authority prior to Bedouin culture. There are also some matriarchal societies where the woman is the "bread winner." Bro, like I told you in the AIDs forum test your hypothesis out and ask the woman you marry if what you're doing is right. I believe Zaman is just playing devil's advocate I don't believe you are that dumb to believe what you say.
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 29 July 2005 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

If a man is having sex in any relationship other than a legal marriage, he is cheating his own soul even if he does not believe to have cheated his wedded wife! - because he committed adultery, thus followed his nafs and corrupted his soul.


I never denied that. I believe he cheats another man, but not his wife.

I don't understand, exactly what you meant by your question. But I hope that you get the answers from the following.
I believe according to Islam, a wife should humbly obey her husband, unless, that physically harms her or takes her away from Allah. However, a man has no say over his wives' property. The husband, in turn, should protect his wives and satisfy their materialistic needs (also, her sexual needs, just in case, sex is not considered "materialistic").
A woman should not however, believe that she has the right to be obeyed by her husband. Husband should listen to her, though (but that is not neccessarily his duty; that is where, others and I differ, I think).



Marriage is a commitment, and that commitment entails one not to commit infedility.


Let me put it this way, since the rights and duties of men and women are different, I believe they cannot cheat each other in the same manner.


Yes, I agree, a man cheats his family if he does not give all of the available time he has, to his family, but so does his wife, if she is extravagant and insincere with his money.

I believe, man betrays his family, as gravely, as a woman who betrays her husband by having sex outside marriage, if he refuses to protect it, simply, because he fears for his own life; or, by indulging in wantonness to the point that he totally neglects his wives and children. Similarly, a woman does not betray her husband, if she refuses to  protect him if that puts her own life in danger (I think).



 




Edited by ZamanH
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 30 July 2005 at 5:04pm

 Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

So far we have understood from Zaman, that he accepts that a man commiting adultery is in sin ... there are several hadith to that but what he wants to see, is if that sin also amounts to cheating his wife or not.  I do not know a direct hadith, I try to respond to two of his posts to me.

Zaman,

First off, when a man marries more than one wife, there is no question about cheating. He does not have to obey his wife for not marrying etc, nor does he have to obey any of his wives, in loving them equally.

The subject you have brought is that of illegal relationship - a relationship that islam does not recognise as dignified or pure.

Please be informed, i am not saying a man cannot marry more than once if he wishes to ... like the western societies so vehemently scream about. My concern is his illegal relationship, not a legal marriage with another woman.

You said: 

Yes, I agree, a man cheats his family if he does not give all of the available time he has, to his family,...

 One, his family consist of his wife.

Two, when he has an affair outside marriage,  he gives his time to that affair, which he should have otherwise given to his wife and children.  

You answered the definition of cheating by comparing it with disobedience.

Not obeying someone is not always cheating, thus the two cannot be compared. If your parents asked u to run an errand and u did not, just because u were lazy, or you forgot, does not mean you cheated them. you simply disobeyed them.

It is true that a man is not obliged to be obedient to his wife, however he is obliged to be loyal, truthful, and trustworthy in his relationship with her.  On the contraty when he engages in a relationship outside marriage, he breaks that bond of trust and loyalty.

A woman is legally allowed to take divorce on these grounds - and there is no blame on her, given the fact that her husband had been cheating, and is not of an upright character.

Whatever you have said with regards to a woman's duty in marriage, there is no denying those facts, I am not disputing that subjetct with you.

Maa salaama,

Nausheen

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 30 July 2005 at 9:20pm
Not obeying someone is not always cheating, thus the two cannot be compared.


I consider going back on what you promised to be cheating. It depends on what you promised. Since, its the duty of the wife to obey her husband, I consider that she promises to be obedient to him.

Husband and wife can betray each other in various ways, (not just by adultery as you believe). For example, if a wife is extravagant and insincere with her husband's money she is cheating him then, too. Husband is also cheating her if he is miserly with her. My point is, all the betrayals are not equivalent.

The betrayal of husband that can be considered equivalent to the betrayal of woman who has intercourse outside marriage, is his refusal to protect his wife, simply because he fears for his life, or, his indulges in wantoness to such an extent that he totally ignores his family.

He does betrays his wife when he has intercourse outside marraige, but that is not equivalent to  (it is actually much less serious) than betrayal of women to her husband when she indulges in sex outside marriage.

Just as their duties to each other are complementary, the ways in which they can betray each other (i.e not performing their duties to each other) are also complementary.


Edited by ZamanH
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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ZEA J
 
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Quote ZEA  J Replybullet Posted: 02 August 2005 at 4:50pm
how old are you ZamanH?
"You will never attain piety and righteousness,(and eventually paradise)until you
spend of that which you love."(Al-Imran:92)
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