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Message Icon Topic: Why (and how) women cheat? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 02 August 2005 at 6:10pm

Zaman said:

>>>Husband and wife can betray each other in various ways, (not just by adultery as you believe). For example, if a wife is extravagant and insincere with her husband's money she is cheating him then, too. Husband is also cheating her if he is miserly with her. My point is, all the betrayals are not equivalent.<<<<<<

I agree, this insincerity call lead to betrayal but which is also irresponsibility on the part of the person, but we have to examine what the concept of cheating is. Zaman you later said:

>>>>The betrayal of husband that can be considered equivalent to the betrayal of woman who has intercourse outside marriage, is his refusal to protect his wife, simply because he fears for his life, or, his indulges in wantoness to such an extent that he totally ignores his family.<<<<<<

Zaman also later says:

He does betrays his wife when he has intercourse outside marraige, but that is not equivalent to  (it is actually much less serious) than betrayal of women to her husband when she indulges in sex outside marriage.

>>>>Just as their duties to each other are complementary, the ways in which they can betray each other (i.e not performing their duties to each other) are also complementary.<<<<<

Brother Zaman if you say that the duties of both men and women in marriage are considered equivalent ( duties such as loyalty etc) then its not impossible to say that when a man indulges in  sexual intercourse outside of marriage its neithe rlesser nor greater than the infidelity of a woman. A woman's infidelity regardless of what she does is no greater nor lesser than the man's because the motives are selfishness. Since both men and women are endowed with the ability to be selfish then the trangression of the act regardless who commits  it is equivalent because the act is suppose to gratify the person. So brother you cannot be bias in who commits the act because they all relate to each other by one thing: the self. Since acts of transgression are to satisfy "The self" then again as I've stated regardless of the act (or type of act) in infidelity they all are related because they relate to self-gratification.



 

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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 03 August 2005 at 3:31pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Originally posted by Zaman

I believe he cheats another man, but not his wife.

I consider going back on what you promised to be cheating.

He does betrays his wife when he has intercourse outside marraige, but that is not equivalent to  (it is actually much less serious) than betrayal of women to her husband when she indulges in sex outside marriage.


It is said in a Hadith, that Allah (SWT) says, He is pure, and loves  that which are pure. This hadith is often used by scholars to explain why we should

1. refrain from, 

2. Take cautions  never to bring into our lives, and

3. clean ourselves from ....that which is impure.

The examples of this are many. For instance, we should not consume pork or alcohol, as these are deemed impure in the sharia.

We should take caution not to include into our income any sort of riba, as that money is impure.

We should get rid of the zakat, as this makes ones savings impure etc etc.

In surah an-nur, allah (swt) has said that the pure (men and women) are for the pure, while the impure are for the impure. This verse clearly says that who indulges in zina are impure, therefore the only ones who should associate with them are the ones who are themselves impure.

Therefore according to my understanding, if the husband of a pious, chaste, believing woman indulge in zina and thus makes himself impure, she should leave him immediately after gaining the knowledge of it (if he refuses to repent and rectify his behavior).

There is no obedience to humans whihc leads one to the disobedience of Allah(SWT). Allah(SWT) prescribes only the chaste and pure men for the pure women, thus they should have no obligation towards their impure husbands!

If he is commiting the sins, and on top of that has the audacity to think he is not cheating her, may I ask does he also have the courage to make known to her, his behaviors, habits and choices? If yes, may I also ask, is he sure he is not jeopardizing his marriage by this?

I dont think there would be any man foolish enough or courageous enough to tell his wife about his affair, unless he knows well that his wife is too weak to be able to make his life miserable for this.

All the best to you Zaman!

Maa salaama,

Nausheen



Edited by Nausheen
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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ZamanH
 
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 03 August 2005 at 7:47pm
Brother Zaman if you say that the duties of both men and women in marriage are considered equivalent ( duties such as loyalty etc) then its not impossible to say that when a man indulges in  sexual intercourse outside of marriage its neithe rlesser nor greater than the infidelity of a woman.


That is going  back to square one. I  reiterate that equality of rights don't imply their identicality. Men and women don't betray each other by committing identical acts of betrayal. I consider your points  (or what I perceive  to be your points) invalid because if  they were true Allah won't have permitted  men to keep four wives at , while, not allowing the women to have more than one husband at a time. Although, polygamy has been discouraged in the Quran and it hasn't condemned anywhere in Quran and Hadith.
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 03 August 2005 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Originally posted by Zaman

I believe he cheats another man, but not his wife.

I consider going back on what you promised to be cheating.

He does betrays his wife when he has intercourse outside marraige, but that is not equivalent to  (it is actually much less serious) than betrayal of women to her husband when she indulges in sex outside marriage.


It is said in a Hadith, that Allah (SWT) says, He is pure, and loves  that which are pure. This hadith is often used by scholars to explain why we should

1. refrain from, 

2. Take cautions  never to bring into our lives, and

3. clean ourselves from ....that which is impure.

The examples of this are many. For instance, we should not consume pork or alcohol, as these are deemed impure in the sharia.

We should take caution not to include into our income any sort of riba, as that money is impure.

We should get rid of the zakat, as this makes ones savings impure etc etc.

In surah an-nur, allah (swt) has said that the pure (men and women) are for the pure, while the impure are for the impure. This verse clearly says that who indulges in zina are impure, therefore the only ones who should associate with them are the ones who are themselves impure.


Yes, I agree. But that is off the topic.

Therefore according to my understanding, if the husband of a pious, chaste, believing woman indulge in zina and thus makes himself impure, she should leave him immediately after gaining the knowledge of it (if he refuses to repent and rectify his behavior).

Not neccessarily. Its her choice. Only if her  husband  leaves the fold of Islam and start disbelieveing, it becomes incumbent on her to leave him.

There is no obedience to humans whihc leads one to the disobedience of Allah(SWT). Allah(SWT) prescribes only the chaste and pure men for the pure women, thus they should have no obligation towards their impure husbands!

That is not an obligation on woman (to leave her husband). If a woman chose to stay with her impure husband, its still her choice. But the man still DOES NOT betrays his wife. HE only proves himself to be impure or not a good man.

If he is commiting the sins, and on top of that has the audacity to think he is not cheating her, may I ask does he also have the courage to make known to her, his behaviors, habits and choices? If yes, may I also ask, is he sure he is not jeopardizing his marriage by this?


Yes, he is jeopardizing his marriage. But his wife should not think that he cheated her, though, she can leave him, on the grounds that he has acted "impurely" (i.e, against the tenets of Islam).
A woman who hasn't been significantly affected by Western culture won't think her husband has cheated her by having sex outisde marriage. That was the norm, before modern Western ideas were introduced to the world.

Just in case, women condones her husband of committing other grave sins, such as dirinking wine, eating pork profit through, riba; there is no reason she should leave him if he commits intercourse outside marriage.
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 03 August 2005 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Originally posted by Zaman

I believe he cheats another man, but not his wife.

I consider going back on what you promised to be cheating.

He does betrays his wife when he has intercourse outside marraige, but that is not equivalent to  (it is actually much less serious) than betrayal of women to her husband when she indulges in sex outside marriage.


It is said in a Hadith, that Allah (SWT) says, He is pure, and loves  that which are pure. This hadith is often used by scholars to explain why we should

1. refrain from, 

2. Take cautions  never to bring into our lives, and

3. clean ourselves from ....that which is impure.

The examples of this are many. For instance, we should not consume pork or alcohol, as these are deemed impure in the sharia.

We should take caution not to include into our income any sort of riba, as that money is impure.

We should get rid of the zakat, as this makes ones savings impure etc etc.

In surah an-nur, allah (swt) has said that the pure (men and women) are for the pure, while the impure are for the impure. This verse clearly says that who indulges in zina are impure, therefore the only ones who should associate with them are the ones who are themselves impure.


Yes, I agree. But that is off the topic.

Therefore according to my understanding, if the husband of a pious, chaste, believing woman indulge in zina and thus makes himself impure, she should leave him immediately after gaining the knowledge of it (if he refuses to repent and rectify his behavior).

Not neccessarily. Its her choice. Only if her  husband  leaves the fold of Islam and start disbelieveing, it becomes incumbent on her to leave him.

There is no obedience to humans whihc leads one to the disobedience of Allah(SWT). Allah(SWT) prescribes only the chaste and pure men for the pure women, thus they should have no obligation towards their impure husbands!

That is not an obligation on woman (to leave her husband). If a woman chose to stay with her impure husband, its still her choice (though, I strongly recommend that she leaves him, but not because she feel he has cheated her). But the man still DOES NOT betrays his wife. HE only proves himself to be impure or not a good man.

If he is commiting the sins, and on top of that has the audacity to think he is not cheating her, may I ask does he also have the courage to make known to her, his behaviors, habits and choices? If yes, may I also ask, is he sure he is not jeopardizing his marriage by this?


Yes, he is jeopardizing his marriage. But his wife should not think that he cheated her, though, she can leave him, on the grounds that he has acted "impurely" (i.e, against the tenets of Islam).
A woman who hasn't been significantly affected by Western culture won't think her husband has cheated her by having sex outisde marriage. That was the norm, before modern Western ideas were introduced to the world.

Just in case, women condones her husband of committing other grave sins, such as murder, drinking wine, eating pork, profit through riba  etc.; there is no reason why she should leave him if he commits intercourse outside marriage.



Edited by ZamanH
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2005 at 11:24am

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

No more comments Zaman,

You have shown(in the other thread) that you are not worth a decent discussion.

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu.

 

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Quote ZamanH Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2005 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

No more comments Zaman,

You have shown(in the other thread) that you are not worth a decent discussion.

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu.

 




As you wish. Bye Bye.
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet
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copenhagen
 
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Quote copenhagen Replybullet Posted: 10 August 2005 at 8:16pm
When this topic was new, I spend a couple minutes looking for some old research I studied in my early college days. But, after a few minutes of sifting spam, I gave up :(

Then, today, I saw the issue again in my news headlines.

You can read the article at Yahoo News.

edit -- odd, the url in the code looks right. here it is in plain text:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050810/sc_nm/paternity_dc

In part:
One in 25 fathers could unknowingly be raising another man's child.

The studies, most of them peer reviewed, came from countries as varied as the United States, Finland, New Zealand, South Africa and Mexico.

The findings of the studies varied dramatically -- some concluded that only one man in 100 is not the father of his child while others put the figure as high as 30 percent.

Bellis said that while mix-ups of semen during artificial insemination accounted for some cases of paternal discrepancy, the majority were due to a woman having sexual relationships outside marriage.

What I orginally read:
approximately 1 in 10 US husbands think the child is his, when it is actually the offspring resulting from an affair.

shrug

while i'm editing, may as well add my opinion that the original poster was onto something interesting :) Although, my post is straying quite a bit from the REAL topic :P

Edited by copenhagen
Some people before you asked questions, and on that account lost their faith.
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