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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Ask an Atheist(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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Diagoras
 
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bullet Posted: 20 November 2007 at 11:02am
That's up to you. I created this thread because at least one member was curious about how I lived without faith, and I wondered if perhaps more might be. However, let's see...

All right, what are your thoughts on the whole "clash of civilizations" theory about Islam and the West.

Disclaimer: I do not subscribe to that theory! Trust me, I wouldn't touch a neocon with a ten-foot pole.
A proud constitutional democratic republican.

The board's friendly neighborhood atheist.
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seekshidayath
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bullet Posted: 20 November 2007 at 5:14pm

 I was astonished and curious to know as how can a person lead a life without believing in God? That made me to question Diagoras and we thought it to discuss on boards.

Insha-Allah, {If Allah wills}, i shall post my views today. Was tightened with my schedule. But shall try my best to post it, today or tomorrow, Insha-Allah.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 20 November 2007 at 6:54pm

Diagoras what you inquire is more political (something I hate to discuss) and because I fear the moderators may censor further subjects not aligned with the current thread what I'll say is brief, but let us stay aligned with the current topic. As far as clash of civilizations I believe its a heirarchal symbol to devalue cultures "other than the West" Muslims comprise not as a civilization of its own, but multi-ethnic groups that have different social and political views of things. The Muslim disgust of the West is not at all universal, but it is overwhelming and the reason this is such is because of skewed political beliefs/actions by world powers.

Personally, I don't care much about subjective politics. A baby can understand and discuss politics. I'd much rather discuss complex topics.

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Diagoras
 
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bullet Posted: 20 November 2007 at 6:57pm
Personally, I don't care much about subjective politics. A baby can understand and discuss politics. I'd much rather discuss complex topics.

Such as?
A proud constitutional democratic republican.

The board's friendly neighborhood atheist.
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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 20 November 2007 at 7:21pm

This:

Equation relating speed of light, speed of object and constant, gamma c is the speed of light
v is the speed of the object in question

 

the formula for the meaurable effects of relativity.....Of course this is joke. This formula is beyond the scope of this website.

Tell me systematically why you don't believe in God? Let us start there. What event, situation, thought lead to this? Where were you when you first acknowledge you didn't believe in God? Or didn't know God existed? Of course the latter is a different kind of question of the other two, but you get the point.

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Diagoras
 
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bullet Posted: 20 November 2007 at 8:07pm
Hooray relativity!

On a serious note, a simple lack of evidence lead to my disbelief in God.

What lead to this? Well, I've always been scientifically-minded. I recall one day sitting in sixth-grade art class, hearing a classmate talking about religion, thinking about it, and then realizing I didn't believe. That was about it.

Sorry for the lack of dramatic deconversion story .

So, I'll bounce the question back to you. Tell me systematically why you believe in God (I presume Allah). What thought led to this, where were you, etc.
A proud constitutional democratic republican.

The board's friendly neighborhood atheist.
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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 20 November 2007 at 9:42pm

Good question.

To give you an honest opinion I'm still trying to figure that out myself. In contrast to yourself, you can say I was raised in a "God conscious" household. My family both immediate and extended, always prayed during thanksgiving and celebrated Christmas (at this time I was Christian) and I simply was immersed in this environment and was simply following what my family followed. This didn't really lead me to God or to be conscious of a higher being. When I first began to become aware of God was when in the eighth grade after falling and breaking my wrist I layed in a hospital bed practically dying from demoral, a painkiller which I became allergic to and almost died. Put it this way, the demoral messed up my cardiovascular system so much from the allergic reaction that my physician said I had the "heart of an 80-year old man."

I didn't take medication to get rid of this condition I simply got better. So, frmo that moment I realized that God perhaps was there with me, at my bedside and was, with my mother, praying for me. since then I have dedicated my life to God. Although the road has been imperfect, I at least owe God that much. Around this time I was still Christian so eventually as I grew older and studied Islam throughout High school and post-high school I became more involved in Islam and eventually converted. I felt, when I was Christian, Christians made God to distant because I had to go through the middle man and Islam offered the option of going directly to the boss. So from here I came to Islam.......

 

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seekshidayath
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bullet Posted: 20 November 2007 at 10:57pm

Hi Diiagoras,

I had an eye over this thread. I could not totally understand your posts {Both of yours and Israfil}. Anyways, here is my point of view over the topic  being discussed. My post is very simple perhaps may sound childish, but these are my points----

Life means an activity and activities brings problems. These problems may be Immediate or Ultimate. Immediate problems are practical which every human faces daily. The manner in which they are faced  and the efficiency and practical common sence which is shown in connection with their solutions forms the measure of human success.

As regards the ultimate problems, every human being who takes life seriously finds himself face to face with them as soon as he attains the age of maturity and feels intricacies of life. Many questions do rise in him.
Like "What am i? This simple question opens a whole field of questions which shoot off in a continuos chain and whose links are forged with unbreakable bond of necessity. Consideration of the first question leads to next , "From where have the human beings come?' , "What is the nature of human life?" and then "What is the purpose and end of human life?"

All these questions are so to say personal. But, then. no human being lives in a vaccum. He lives in a world, which is  infinetly   and immeasurably vaster than his physically - infiniteesimal personality, and this world influences his life and his actions at every step. His fortuens, infact his very life is interlinked with and dependant upon the world around him. For instance, if sun were to stop its function , the entire related physical environment would be shattered to pieces. Or, if the heat of sin rises above or falls below average to certain levels , the very existence  of human beings on earth would have been impossible.

As discussed earlier above, that many questions do rise in his mind. Similarly, a question that rises in his mind is "How did the world come into being". If this world came by itself, how is it that conceivable? i.e on what ground?  These questions are ultimate questions. The questions are so vital that every thinking  human being is bound to face  them one time or the other during his life and they have such a close bearing on the immediate questions of life that anyone who has any knowledge of human beings will admit that they cannot be shirked.

But, Diagoras u may admit that these ultimate questions may not after all be as important as they are said to be. Indeed, the modern secular civilisation  is, for all practical purposes ,based on the notion that these ultimate questions have  nothing to do with the immediate practical problems of mankind. In other words, these questions are meant  only for philosophers and no practical person shud waste  his time and energy  on them. But if we go deep into the matter , we are bound to conclude  on the basis of our common sence itself that the ultimate questions are   infinitely more important than  the immediate questions.

Taking up disbelief in the existence of God first: If there is no God and the world came into  being by itself, it means that it came into being by CHANCE. In other words, it is a world of CHANCE in which everything and every event emerges by CHANCE.

If we consider the nature of  "chance" itself, we find that it always indicates an event which has no pre- conceived cause. In any case, it cannot be said to be a planned event. Again , if there is no plan in an event, there can be no purpose , because all purpose activity is planned, whether planning is conscious  {namely based on intellectual appreciation} or merely instinctive. Resuming the argument, if  the world came into being by CHANCE, it is a blind and lawless world. Indeed the very word "CHANCE"  means absence of law.

Now, if the world is lawless in its inherent constitution and if everything which is born out of it is also in its nature without law, it means  that the formulation of any laws by human beings, whether those laws are scientific or ethical or political or economic, would be violation  of human nature and nature of the world itself. But human beings cannot exists without law. Therefore, they are bound to give up the athesitic hypothesis  of the existence of the world  inorder to live. If they don't  and if they carry the atheistic hypothesis  to its logical  consequences, the only law which they can establish for themselves would be law of jungle in political administration and rule of expediencey in moral life.

Whereas, when we speak affirming the existence of God, if we believe  God exists and HE is the Creator, it means the world came  into being thru planned Creation, is fucntioning  under a system of law and is moving towards a purpose. In other words, plan, purpose, and law are inherent in the very constitution of the world. This, in turn provides the ground for every branch of human law.

Hope u shall ponder over it.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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