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Message Icon Topic: Whose the Terrorist Muslim or Christian? Post Reply Post New Topic
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solitair
 
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Quote solitair Replybullet Posted: 03 March 2014 at 1:03pm
I have not read all of the messages, so maybe someone already said this:

Around the year 1100 - the Christian church sent soldiers on crusades towards Muslims - a 400 year long series of terrorist acts - so cruel and horrible that it is impossible for me to explain it. Barbaric christian soldiers starving, even ate Muslim children from the villages they massacred.

Was that what Jesus was teaching ? No, it was not, so clearly this had nothing to do with Christianity. Or do we not agree that Christianity is what Jesus was teaching ? (The biblical explanation)

Pope Urban II - is the psychotic mad man that in 1095 - ordered the first crusade, a military attack, not to defend but to destroy. Is there anything in the Bible - anything Jesus said that can blame the actions of this horrible leader of the Catholic church Pope Urban II, on Jesus ?? Of course not.

The Country of Norway was so called "Christianed by sword" year 900 - 1000, meaning that everybody that was against Christianity was killed. Most other places "accepted Christianity the same way, completely against what Jesus ever talked about. I think Jesus told his disciples to "speak the word", and that "He is the word"... i don't think he said, run out there with your weapons and kill everybody...

If you are going to have a conversation like this, then talk about the religion, don't talk about the acts some horrible people have tried to excuse in the name of a religion. Or do you really not see the difference between statements like "turning the other cheek" and "slaughtering everybody that don't agree with you" ?

Many people have asked other to read the Qur'an, now why is that so important ? Because most people know that Jesus was teaching to turn the other cheek - but not what the Qur'an is saying. Im a not saying that you have to read the Qur'an so that you will convert to Islam, i am saying that it is important to read the Qur'an so you understand how absolutely silly it is to say that Islam entourages terrorism. It is just like saying that Jesus never asked people to turn the other cheek.

It is important to read the Qur'an, because anybody that does, can see for them selves that Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. ... - just like the reason why most people understand my logic so easily when it comes to Jesus, because most people have learned about him and what he said in the bible. Christianity does not entourage terrorism - just like Islam does not entourage terrorism.

Jesus said "turn the other cheek" (the religion), several of the catholic pope's (people - not the religion) said "kill everybody... " Now it is close to impossible to discuss this topic if you are unable to see that some of this is religion - and other things are just crazy people trying anything they can think of, to reach some crazy goals they have.

If you can find some text in the Bible where Jesus said kill everybody and eat their kids if you get hungry, then sure... lets blame the crusades on Christianity. If you can find similar text in the Qur'an than you are free to blame 9/11 on Islam, but the fact is that there are none !! That is why i say that you are not really talking about religion at all, and until you read the Qur'an - or at leas parts of it, you really should not discuss this at all. It is like walking around in the dark in the middle of the nigh, you are destined to fall on your face or get completely lost.

Adolf Hitler slaughtered millions of Jews. Now what do you think about his ideas about cleaning the christian religion ? His mother was a very religious catholic, and Hitler was described by many people as a strong believer as well. Are you not going to say that Christianity is barbaric because Hitler killed 9 million Jews ?

The fact is that Islam has just as little to do with the bad acts - committed by people - that Christianity has to do with the crimes committed by Adolf Hitler.

Now if you are going to say that Islam or Christianity encourages terrorism or what ever it is that you are so called asking about, then please enlighten us about where in the Qur'an you read how one of the prophets encourages people to terrorism. Where did Jesus do this in the Bible? If you can not refer to such a scripture, you must admit that you are in fact not even talking or asking about Islam/Christianity at all. You are in fact talking about the acts of crazy or barbaric people, and should probable ask this question in a forum called - "Barbaric acts" or "psychotic killers" or "abusive people" ??

Islam/Christianity is not to blame for terrorism, - just like it is silly to ask if Ford and BMW is responsible for a large percentages of all "hit and run" accidents.

It is fascinating how someone can say that Islam is the reason why woman are not allowed to drive. Not a single place in the Qur'an will you find this mentioned. In Europe there was serious female liberation going on after world war II, woman could not vote, etc. etc. but nobody blamed it on Christianity... it is called male shovenism and it has existed since the beginning of the human race... nothing to do with religion, not any religion.

There are lots of male shovenists among muslim men, but it is not because they are muslims, it is not because of Islam. Islam teaches different behavior towards woman, but just like all men - nobody is perfect, and we all have to learn and be enlightened. That is why Muslims prey many times every day... (the religion) to try to become better. Maybe one day, woman will be able to drive in every corner of the world...

I am not sorry for describing the pope as a psychopath, but i do not disrespect the religion. I am not sorry for saying that many muslims are male shovenists, that many Muslims should go to jail for crimes committed towards woman - but what they do can not be blamed on their religion. Just like whife beatings among Christians happen in very large numbers, it can not be blamed on the religion. Wife beating is not a phenomenon among religions men, and some statistics seem to indicate that it might be worse among atheists.

People use their religion - (the Pope being the ultimate example) to excuse what they do. But is is just as silly as blaming car accidents like a hit and run on the car manufacturers... in stead of the drunk drivers.


Edited by solitair - 03 March 2014 at 1:12pm
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2014 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by solitair


I am not sorry for describing the pope as a psychopath, but i do not disrespect the religion.

Greetings,
I am fine with solitair expressing, so strongly, his feelings... they are his feelings...
but for me it brings up...
what would happen to a non-muslim expressing their similar feelings about the religion of islam?  Shouldn't all people have the same freedom to express their own personal feelings about a matter?
Salaam.

note: I would add to solitair, that I do wonder from where they got their teaching and I would suggest that much further research needs to be done.  I see that they have quite a distorted view of things....
'eating muslim children'
and they definitely should watch a few different programs, or read, on the how the advent of the crusades really came about, and why they went so horribly.


Edited by Caringheart - 04 March 2014 at 12:27pm
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solitair
 
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Quote solitair Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2014 at 12:51am
Originally posted by Caringheart

[QUOTE=solitair]
what would happen to a non-muslim expressing their similar feelings about the religion of islam?


Thank you for your reply, and i appreciate your very important statement that I also have quoted above.

There is on the other hand, a difference between saying something about a man (former Pope of the catholic church) that is responsible for the death and torture of millions of people, and saying something about the religion. I am NOT talking about the religion, and I am not blaming the religion for anything the Popes have done.

There are no such comparable history in Islam, (that i have found so far) so it would not be possible to turn this around. Never have a prophet done such things.

You simply can not just compare - and say that Christians have the right to say bad things about the prophet because i can say bad things about a  former pope.

The truth is allowed in Islam, even about the prophet - but nobody have the right so say bad things about the prophet because IT IS FALSE !! It is not wrong because it is the prophet, it is wrong because it is false.

The Popes that started these crusaded were psychopaths. I say it because the words are not lies, and hundreds of years of history is evidence. If someone will show me any evidence that there are similar history in Islam, i will be the first one to say it. Until that day, i will never allow such thought in to my head, or such words to come out of my mouth.

Last but most important:

You describe some sort of "equality tyranny" if there are such words.

Equality is dishonoring, because we can not drag hones men down on the same level as dishonest just to make them equal in the name of fairness, and we can not drag dishonest up to the level of the honest just so they will not be insulted.

We all must speak the truth - not let some equality tyrannic guidelines decide our words.



Edited by solitair - 05 March 2014 at 1:19am
Never drag the honest down to the level of the dishonest just to make them equal in the name of fairness, and never drag dishonest up to the level of the honest just so they will not be insulted.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2014 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by solitair

Originally posted by Caringheart

[QUOTE=solitair]
what would happen to a non-muslim expressing their similar feelings about the religion of islam?

Thank you for your reply, and i appreciate your very important statement that I also have quoted above.

There is on the other hand, a difference between saying something about a man (former Pope of the catholic church) that is responsible for the death and torture of millions of people, and saying something about the religion. I am NOT talking about the religion, and I am not blaming the religion for anything the Popes have done.

There are no such comparable history in Islam, (that i have found so far) so it would not be possible to turn this around. Never have a prophet done such things.

You simply can not just compare - and say that Christians have the right to say bad things about the prophet because i can say bad things about a  former pope.

The truth is allowed in Islam, even about the prophet - but nobody have the right so say bad things about the prophet because IT IS FALSE !! It is not wrong because it is the prophet, it is wrong because it is false.

The Popes that started these crusaded were psychopaths. I say it because the words are not lies, and hundreds of years of history is evidence. If someone will show me any evidence that there are similar history in Islam, i will be the first one to say it. Until that day, i will never allow such thought in to my head, or such words to come out of my mouth.

Last but most important:

You describe some sort of "equality tyranny" if there are such words.

Equality is dishonoring, because we can not drag hones men down on the same level as dishonest just to make them equal in the name of fairness, and we can not drag dishonest up to the level of the honest just so they will not be insulted.

We all must speak the truth - not let some equality tyrannic guidelines decide our words.

Greetings solitair,

You said;
"I am not sorry ...  i do not disrespect the religion."

That is the part of your statement I was referring to.  I thought you had said, 'I do not respect the religion.'  I obviously misread what you wrote.

But if you researched the history, you would understand that what happened during the crusades was not a result of the intentions of the decree of the Pope.  It was about a bunch of zealots, with nothing better to do, that took up a cause... not much different than what you see happening in Syria and in Palestine right now.
Do some serious research on the first crusade, from all aspects, i.e., many sources.  This took me many hours, several sittings.

There is very much comparable history in islam.
for one; the Banu Qurayzah

The truth is allowed in islam as long as the truth doesn't contradict the truth you want to believe.  There are bad things recorded about the prophet, as well as many good things.  He was a man.  He did bad, and he did good, and both bad and good are recorded in both islamic sources and non-islamic sources.  Are you familiar with Umm Qirfa?  What about when Muhammad hit his wife Aisha hard on the chest?  Was it a good thing that Muhammad did when he had men to run raids and pillage, taking booty, from passing caravans... in this way to build himself an army... through pirating?  Is this the act of a man of God?  Moses and Yshwe never did any such things.

You can't just reject what you don't like and say it is false, any more than I can say that bad things can not be spoken about leaders in the Christian faith.  If a person knows of bad things they are allowed to speak them, even if another person is unaware, or chooses to reject facts as they are presented.  In islam, if you don't like what a hadith says, you reject the hadith, rather than accepting that it is a truth also.

Regarding 'equality tyranny', i don't really understand where that thought came from, or how it relates to my post?

But I do hope that you will do some more research as I always do whenever anyone refutes what I believe.  If they present me with something, I go and research further into the matter.

Salaam and blessings to you,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 05 March 2014 at 11:47pm
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solitair
 
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Quote solitair Replybullet Posted: 06 March 2014 at 3:36am
I have done research on some of these topics for many years, i think 15 about now, so maybe i know a thing or two about this stuff where you see me as ignorant...

There is no room for terrorism in any religions know to man today - there is no room in Christianity, Islam or any other religion. Any terrorism committed is therefor always against the religion that person claim to be part of.

No prophet have ever gone against Islam to massacre lots of people. Let us not start up again to talk about bad things you claim that a prophet have done, we are talking about going against ones own religion, to do terrorism, and there is no history of this in Islam.

The pope have, he went against his own religions and have shanged it to his own liking... and still does. Jesus was thrown out with the tap water long time ago... and he did masacre millons of people, against his own religion. And NO there are NO comparable events in Islam.

Any leader in Islam that wants to change something - can not change a thing - because this religion is to strict and controlled by design. Just see if you can find any changes in islam for the last 1500 year.

You find noting significant, it is all the same. Christianity on the other hand is almost not recognizable at all compared to what Jesus was teaching 2000 years ago.


Terrorism is as i said always committed in spite of the religion - and that is a fact ! Muslims leaders do not commit any acts against their religion - so anybody claiming to do terrorism in the name of Islam is not.

The nut jobs that do this, and call them selves Muslims are NOT a prophet, or any other spokesman for Islam. They are as i said, nut jobs on the side with crazy ideas in their head.

As for Christianity, the case is VERY different.  Even the Pope himself have gone completely away from his religion and participated many times in terrorism !

BUT NEVER A PROPHET IN ISLAM ! 

So why don't YOU start some research !!

Why are you so inaccurate with such an important topic ? You think i throw out words about the Pope himself, if i am not 100 % sure i know what I'm talking about ?

These are all to serious topics to just guess or have a chat...



Edited by solitair - 06 March 2014 at 3:40am
Never drag the honest down to the level of the dishonest just to make them equal in the name of fairness, and never drag dishonest up to the level of the honest just so they will not be insulted.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 07 March 2014 at 4:35pm
Greetings solitair,

I do not think you are ignorant.  I do question if you have researched from many sources to get an unbiased view of history.

Can you please tell me what you say about the Banu Qurayzah?

Shukran and salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 07 March 2014 at 4:36pm
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solitair
 
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Quote solitair Replybullet Posted: 08 March 2014 at 2:32am
Originally posted by Caringheart


Can you please tell me what you say about the Banu Qurayzah?


Is there anything complicated about it ? Death sentence is simply a death sentence - if you convict many people at the same time or if you convict only one. It is not a massacre just because the numbers is high.

I fail to see how a single one of the people executed were innocent.  What are you trying to say, this is getting to be very hard for me to follow just about now.


Edited by solitair - 08 March 2014 at 2:35am
Never drag the honest down to the level of the dishonest just to make them equal in the name of fairness, and never drag dishonest up to the level of the honest just so they will not be insulted.
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 09 March 2014 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by solitair

Originally posted by Caringheart


Can you please tell me what you say about the Banu Qurayzah?


Is there anything complicated about it ? Death sentence is simply a death sentence - if you convict many people at the same time or if you convict only one. It is not a massacre just because the numbers is high.

I fail to see how a single one of the people executed were innocent.  What are you trying to say, this is getting to be very hard for me to follow just about now.


Unfortunately, Christian hypocrisy is shameless and knows no bounds.  They complain about the Bani Quaryzah "massacre" yet they shamelessly defend Biblical genocide and infanticide.  You cannot reason with such people.  They are already lost in their twisted logic.   
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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