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Message Icon Topic: Whose the Terrorist Muslim or Christian? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Quote OSCAR Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2007 at 10:07am

[QUOTE=Anatolian]Who cares if it's not St. James version? Does it really matter? Will you sit
here and demonize this wonderfull message? What are you getting at?

most of the bible is Gods word as it says in the Quran, however even a very small change in Gods bible can have profound effect with meaning over the centuries.

as an example would you say Bush Blair and Hitler who all say they were believing Christians will go to heaven because Jesus paid for there sins.

or do you think bush and Blair did nothing wrong as Christians


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Quote Anatolian Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2007 at 11:23pm
Martha, if I am not mistaken I think it was you lives in Britain or are of
British background. Are you talking about the King Jame's bible? That's
what I'm understanding. King James Bible is a Protestant translation of the
Holy Book. Thats only accepted by Protestant denominations. I'm not
familiar with it because of my Catholic Book. But it's not really fair of you
to state that only the King James version is the only one that is correct.
Remember King Jame's translation of the the Bible in 1611 was more
political then religious. Either way I don't think this is the forum to
discuss the matter.

The thing I have an issue with between Islam and Christianity is the
following. In Christianity you are free to ask and debate, to question and
to argue. That is expected out of you because God gave you a brain and
he wants you to use it. And if you are not satisfied with what Christianity
is offering you, you are more then welcome to leave the flock and your
are welcomed to join it back if you wish to do so. But in Islam you are not
to ask "complicated" answers to an Imam or he will call you a heretic or if
he is polite he will just say leave it to Allah for it's too complicated we are
only his slaves. If you haven't found anything in Islam that you feel is
right for you, good luck leaving it. If you haven't heard much stories
about those who leave Islam and what they face by those who are close to
them then you should look up some stories and read for yourself.

As for Oscar, where has Hitler ever said he was a believing Christian. On
the contrary he persecuted so many clergyman, deacons, pastors, nuns,
pious faithfull, from both Catholic and Protestant Churches because as he
stated, Christianity was a bigger threat to him then the Allies. These are
quotes he said from a book published in the '40's I believe. It's called
Hitler's Secret Conversations.

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow
that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is
Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The
deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by
Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of
the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)
10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature.
Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic
cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)
14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When
understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian
doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the
peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread
abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)
19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that
it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

Oscar, as you can see Hitler was no Christian. Nothing he did was
Christian. He used Christianity at first to entice his people to his beliefs
thinking that he was doing God's work to punish the Jews for Christ's
death but his true colors shined quite soon.

As for Bush and Blair and any congressman or parliamentarian. They are
no Christians but belong to the New World Order of Freemasonry. Which
is not Christian at all, it actually intends on crushing all religions
especially Christianity. What they don't know is the fact that the only
institution that has survived world wars, diseases, invasions, etc... Is the
Church and it will remain until the end of days. That is a fact. Just
because one is born from a Christian nation or family does not mean he
IS one. Your acts define what your faith is and these men are from from a
decent Christian.
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Quote Anatolian Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2007 at 11:28pm
Martha, I enjoy discussing with you. I find you respectfull and willing to learn
from others as I would like to learn from your experiances. I look forward to
future replies. I know you intend no harm trust me I come out as a pitbull at
times but I do not intend to do so but I do have a short patience when it
comes to ignorant folks who truly believe they are right even though many
have never read the Bible yet have Bible quotes edited by Islamic
fundementalist websites bookmarked on there screens waiting to use it to
cause harm to others. Many have never known a Christian and are ready to
denounce everything a Christian/Jew states.
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 22 December 2007 at 5:44am

Hi Anatolian,

My time is short today, and am unable to answer all the things you have pointed out. But I will come back again on Monday to fully digest.

I'll briefly explain a couple of things. Yes I'm white British, and used the King James version of the Bible as a Christian. Have never read the Catholic version, maybe I should, and then maybe it'll be more fair to discuss the Bible truths?

It does seem to be the way that with Christianity you are free to ask as many questions as you care to ask. I searched many denominations. But thats a long story.

As with regards to Islam I wouldnt like to give a definate answer . I have to admit I dont understand a great deal that is discussed on IC or anywhere else. I do as much reading as I can, and mull it over in my mind. I have no doubt that many muslims cannot understand me. There are some very helpful muslims here however that try to explain in a simple manner. So I appreciate that. I also get het up from time to time, and try hard not to express here, as it wouldnt be the right thing to do. Mine is a complicated story on the whole. As I am on my own I have a lot of time to wonder about life and God/Allah. But I am more than satisfied to know that He is the same for me now as when I was a Christian. He doesnt change at all for me. He understands everything about me,and that is such a comfort.

I understand you well on your above comments

I'll return here on Monday. I wish you an enjoyable w/end.

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Quote OSCAR Replybullet Posted: 22 December 2007 at 10:03am

Hi Anatolian

I'm not an imam, Islam encourages debate but insulting any religion is not debating, that said ask me what ever you want about Islam. 

one of the reasons Hitler and the Nazis gave to persecute the Jews was they killed Jesus

Edited by OSCAR
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 22 December 2007 at 10:08pm


 Well said OSCAR.    And the post of Martha dated 21 December was excellent. Anatolian should try to see the King James version of the bible. I read that and enjoyed it very much. Of course my study was limited to the four gospels. Whatever I saw of Jesus, it was excellent and easy to understand, specially the chapters of Mathews.

 We can read the bible and fall in love with Jesus. But that is not all. We as Muslims are already in love with Jesus and his mother and all the prophets of Allah. We do not differentiate between any messenger of God, nor do we reject any of them. The message of all of them is LOVE. Quran is full of wisdom. It is the new or last testament.

If there is any decent question about Islam or some querry, I am also ready to explain even though i am not any religious head (maulvi). Anatolian is partly right in blaming ISLAM because some of the things that are mentioned by Anatolian are true. They are the bad practices of the ignorant Muslims and they are not any true part of Islam.

 My teacher in England told me once, "In India, Mulla says 'Don't do as I do. But do as I tell you.' " There was a good message for me about the bad habits of the Muslim religious leaders of India. I had made a mistake and I tried to justify it by the act/ practice of the teacher. He then warned me and told me the above words. That was a beautiful gentle way of teaching me.

Edited by minuteman
If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Quote Anatolian Replybullet Posted: 23 December 2007 at 2:49am

The Nazis USED this "Christ-Killer" message to finish off the Jews. It's one
of many excuses they used to butchered people. Either they blamed their
loss of WW1, the economic struggle faced by the country after the Great
War, and a history of intolerance that dated back hundreds of years. But
they did not kill the Jews because of Christ. God did not command them
to do so, so that is hardly an excuse. They killed off the Jews and stole
their assets to fund there racist rhetoric and spread it across the globe.
Many factors are used in the Holocaust. The Nazis were no Christians to
begin with neither were there acts so I believe as most scholars do, that
the Jesus theory is baseless.

Christianity is used by many politicians, emperors, kings, presidents,
dictators, tyrants as a cover up to blind their people into joining their
causes, which are almost always based on greed. Practically any religion
not soley Christianity. You see it today with Islam. It is being used by
monsters to spread fear and intimidation. I have my doubts on Islam as
most of you know but I draw the line where it's innocent faithfull are
forced to live in fear and face persecution by there neighbors. Any
religion has good and bad seeds. I am honored to hold very close life
long friendships with many muslims (one of my best man by my side on
my wedding was a Muslim and he gave me the best advice of still
have time to run away

I will ask my questions on Islam as I hope you ask me on Christianity. It's
time for our sides to seriously TALK and hear each other. Were hidding
behind this "Iron Curtain" for the last 1400 years it's about time we start
understanding each other. As I was raised in Middle East, I know more
about Islamic culture and was surrounded by it to the point where I refuse
to eat bacon. I don't know why maybe it's the layer of fat that pulls me
away I don't know. The point I'm making here is that I understand it and
what your trying to convey to me because I know the culture more then
my adopted country's. That should help your end knowing and
understanding your message because Islam is practically a Middle Eastern
religion and with that part of the world comes all it's positive and
negative points. Gentle souls but blood boiling over the kettle.
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 23 December 2007 at 10:31am


You have raised some good points with your above message.

I also never thought Hitler was Christian and I have always been  of the opinion that he persecuted the Jews because of their wealth. Hitler despised anyone that just didnt fit in with his views. Which pretty much included everyone. He hated the blacks, muslims, asians,Christians and so on. He was pure evil. Just being alive threatened him.

Am I right in thinking that as a child Hitlers best friend was a Jew? Am sure it was in his biography. (no I didnt read it)

Greed is the basis behind  invasions. Religion does not play a part in politics at all, though we are supposed to believe this. If all religions acted as they should then there would be no wars.

As a Christian I never had to feel fear from anyone else. However, I have faced many obstacles since I became muslim. I recently told a forum friend of mine that I am no longer  free to outwardly practice Islam. And that is very sad, and unfair. Strangely enough, I told her just 3 days back that I feel in the same league as the Jews that hid in fear of Hitler. So your comments today have said the very same thing .....'I draw the line where it's innocent faithfull are
forced to live in fear and face persecution by there neighbors.'
I dont feel I can fight anymore the obstacles that are constantly presented to me. I get it from muslims and CHristians alike. So I am a secret muslim. That is FACT. But my faith in Islam is ever strong. I enjoy reading about the Prophet Muhammed (pbuH). It keeps me going in a world that is full of trouble and contention. The Prophet kept his teachings simple, so others could understand. Much in the same way that Jesus taught in parables. I would have had a far better life had I been born into a muslim family. But that was not meant to be. But I feel very fortunate that I embraced Islam when I did.

I hope for the time when all religions can come together and calmly discuss. There are many good Christians and muslims in the world, but these are greatly outnumbered. I will refrain from saying what kind of people they are. It wouldnt be polite. 

I always look forward to any forum conversation that might produce good, intelligent and mature responses from all faiths. It is always good to learn 'good'


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