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Message Icon Topic: Whose the Terrorist Muslim or Christian? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Chelle
 
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Quote Chelle Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2007 at 6:24pm

I'm assuming that the reason Christians would not want me to study Islam is because you don't believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, which kind of blows Christianity out of the water.

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Quote OSCAR Replybullet Posted: 25 November 2007 at 11:58am

the jesus issue is one of the thing that is discussed, there is a lot more. 

and yes i have read the Quran, but im not trying to pass judgement on any religion only what i know.

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Quote Anatolian Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2007 at 11:39pm
Oscar you have this issue that you need to clear before you go on
demonizing Christianity.

If you've read the Bible, which I doubt you have. Read the Sermon on the
Mount. If you don't have a Bible here I'll post it for you. From Mathew
Chapter 5

1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat
down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to teach them saying:
3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
      for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
      for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
      for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
      for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
      for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
      for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
      for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
      for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say
all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad,
because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they
persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Salt and Light

13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how
can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be
thrown out and trampled by men.
14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.
15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they
put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the
same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good
deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I
have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth,
until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least
stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until
everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of
these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called
least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these
commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you
that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the
teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Murder

21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not
murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I
tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to
judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable
to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the
fire of hell.
23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there
remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift
there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then
come and offer your gift.

25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court.
Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to
the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may
be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you
have paid the last penny.[d]

Adultery

27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I
tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already
committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you
to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part
of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if
your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better
for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into
hell.
Divorce

31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a
certificate of divorce.'[f] 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his
wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an
adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits
adultery.
Oaths

33"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not
break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34But I
tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or
by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the
Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even
one hair white or black. 37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,'
'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
An Eye for an Eye

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g]
39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on
the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to
sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If
someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the
one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to
borrow from you.
Love for Enemies

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your
enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who
persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He
causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the
righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what
reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if
you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do
not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father
is perfect.
Matthew 6

Giving to the Needy

1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen
by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as
the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by
men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But
when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your
right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your
Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Prayer

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray
standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men.
I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you
pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is
unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward
you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they
think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like
them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9"This, then, is how you should pray:
   " 'Our Father in heaven,
   hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
   your will be done
      on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
      as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
   but deliver us from the evil one.[j]' 14For if you forgive men when they
sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you
do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Fasting

16"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they
disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth,
they have received their reward in full. 17But when you fast, put oil on
your head and wash your face, 18so that it will not be obvious to men
that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your
Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Treasures in Heaven

19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and
rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for
yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and
where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is,
there your heart will be also.
22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole
body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will
be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is
that darkness!

24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the
other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot
serve both God and Money.

Do Not Worry

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or
drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important
than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the
birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet
your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than
they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[k]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field
grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in
all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God
clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown
into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So
do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or
'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and
your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his
kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you
as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will
worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Matthew 7

Judging Others

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you
judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be
measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay
no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your
brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is
a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your
own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your
brother's eye.

6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If
you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear
you to pieces.

Ask, Seek, Knock

7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the
door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who
seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if
he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are
evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will
your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12So in
everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this
sums up the Law and the Prophets.

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the
road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is
the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
A Tree and Its Fruit

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize
them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad
fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear
good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and
thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of
heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in
your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many
miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from
me, you evildoers!'

The Wise and Foolish Builders

24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them
into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The
rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against
that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them
into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain
came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that
house, and it fell with a great crash."
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Quote OSCAR Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2007 at 9:38am

i am defiantly not demonizing Christianity, my question is very simple why are openly committed Christian leaders (bush Blair) and their majority Christian populations taken part in murder and to this day done nothing to stop Innocent Muslim civilians deaths, or admit their behavior was immoral according to the bible, or do they still think they were right to do so like in a recent TV interview with Blair.

if the Christian west cant even see what they did was wrong what bible have they been reading. is there a verse in the bible that says create lies about a another nation and there religion and then bomb them until they accept democracy    



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Chelle
 
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Quote Chelle Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2007 at 10:09am
Originally posted by OSCAR

if the Christian west cant even see what they did was wrong what bible have they been reading. is there a verse in the bible that says create lies about a another nation and there religion and then bomb them until they accept democracy    

It sure seems that way, doesn't it?  I, for one, am deeply ashamed of the things my current president has done and continues to do in the name of religion.  Hopefully, our next president won't be another religious fanatic.

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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2007 at 10:16am

I think what is confusing is the fact that the bible continually is being altered.

Anatolian, the bible verses you have written down for us are not of The Bible St James version. The one you have quoted from has been interpreted differently, and so can change the meaning of the original St James version. (The original version is also not complete and has many authors)Surely many Christians then are confused with so many versions circulating? Perhaps it is the cause for misunderstanding amongst Christian leaders/politicans? Oscar you said 'if the Christian west cant even see what they did was wrong what bible have they been reading. I dont know which version/s they were reading to be honest.

The Quran however, has never been altered. (Seekshidayath also pointed this out, as have others)It has only been translated into other languages so others can understand it. There is a big difference bewteen translation and alteration. Christians tell others to not read the Quran. Islam is an easy religion to understand. Christians seem to think that religion must be complicated as they have indeed made it so.

 

 

 

 

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Quote Anatolian Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2007 at 12:28am
Who cares if it's not St. James version? Does it really matter? Will you sit
here and demonize this wonderfull message? What are you getting at?

Martha I do not know where you give your information. My father, a
Catholic, handed me a Qu'ran himself when I asked him for one. This is
comming from a man who lost his grand father at the hands of Muslims.
Priests study the Torah AND the Qu'ran as a course in order for them to
become priests.

I explained to Salams Wife in a previous reply about religion. Go and read
it under the General Discussion. Religion is not meant to be understood
so easily. Your basically saying that God and humans must have the same
level of thinking? Religion is a long process to understand. Christianity IS
simple. If you basically follow the Sermon on the Mount you will be
blessed with God's everlasting love yet you chose not to. You ask for
more and more. You expect to know the secrets of this life yet you can't.
Nobody can't. It relies on faith and a bit of common sense to know if this
is decent enough to believe in or if it will make me into a better human. A
better mother, father, brother or sister, friend or husband, wife or
neighbor, son or daughter. If Islam does that for you fine. But just
because something is "easy" to understand and that your satisfied with
the simplest of answers that would make you a simpleton in mind. One is
suppose to seek the truth and study and compare and experiance and
learn EVERYTHING about his/her religion including it's history and the
acts of its prophets. Simple answers are not always a safe route to follow.
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Quote martha Replybullet Posted: 21 December 2007 at 2:15am

Dear Anatolian,

We should 'care' which version of the Bible we read. Thats why I said the St James Version. It is the one which contains the truths as far as we know the Bible to be correct. I have studied different versions,of some Christian religious groups and they can and do interpret differently. So the message therefore is different. I certainly dont demonise the 'wonderful message' The Bible is important to me, and goes hand in hand with the Quran as far as I'm concerned.

Religion is not difficult to understand if we listen to God. It becomes difficult when people get confused. That then does not help the questioning mind. It is important to learn as much as we can in this life, to the best of our ability. I didnt realise that my message was misunderstood in this way.It is not enough to say 'I believe' and do nothing more. Of course we must progress. We have been blessed with an enquiring mind so with thankful heart to God we should use it. And of course what we dont understand we accept in all faith, knowing that our God will one day, at the right time reveal to us more. We are all at different stages of learning.I didnt imply othewise.  What might be simple for one to accept, might not apply to another. When you understand a Heavenly principle it is simple isnt it? But I certainly dont believe for one minute that God would want us to be so wrapped up in trying to unravel all things. It is most likely to turn the well intending believer into one that no longer feels he can try his best, and so not bother at all. And I dont believe God is like this with us.

I apologise if you felt I seemed uncaring. I would not knowingly wish to upset another. But my belief in God carries me through each day. I have a very enquiring mind about Him. Because of Him I am in the world at this important time of its history. I dont prophess to be any different, or do anything different to anyone else. I do the best I can, and always try to go 'the extra mile'. If you have read some of my other posts you will know that I was a Christian for most of my life. I respect everyone and all faiths. I could happily discuss any aspect with you. My mind is not so blinkered that I turn away from others. Only my heart is set, to serve God the best way I can. And I believe that is what you do also. I hope we can continue our conversations. I would like that. Any unintended misunderstandings can be cleared along the way.

 

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