IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Why war on ISLAM??

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Diagoras

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Posted: 15 December 2007 at 1:45pm

Raymond,

I am an atheist as well, however, I am not a jerk about it. Randomly insulting people and acting like a general troll has given atheism a bad name, and your actions aren't helping.

If you want to discuss the issue of intolerance in Islam, I would suggest making a reasoned, sensitive post in the Interfaith Dialogue forum.

A proud constitutional democratic republican.

The board's friendly neighborhood atheist.

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The Guided One

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Joined: 20 November 2006
Location: United States
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Posts: 101

Posted: 15 December 2007 at 2:32pm

Asalamu aleykum warah matulahi wa baraktuh, Bismilahi Rahmani Rahiim.

My follow Musilim i s2 islam, I was just thinking about this matter 15 minutes ago. I thought about how peaceful the Muslims are, and how law obydient we are, yet there is still enemies of the Muslims. I believe the Enemies of the Muslim don't hate us personally as people but they hate our fate, they Hate Islam and Allah, in their souls they believe Islam is the right religion yet they have no wisdom and understanding, how can they hate a religion they believe is the right one? they are damb, deaf, and blind and they are not returning to Allah.

They hate us because of our faith not that we are violant or threat to them, they are the enemies of Allah and his religion, so they are clearly fighting Allah's religion and they hate his followers. They will never accept us till we disbelieve, even we become their slaves, they will never accept our peace and love. So My follow Muslims be aware of the Enemies of Allah and never obey them, let us not aid the enemies of Allah by dividing the Believers, let us not lose our patience, let us ask Allah to guide us to his path and let us ask him to make us faithful believers who invite people to the way of Allah. Allah does not change the condtion of people till they change their own condtions, the key to success is following Our Messenger Mohammed Aleyhi Salaam and his way of faith, let us follow Allah's religion Islam and be true Muslims, We are Muslims and our faith is Islam! let us never add any other name after Islam and Muslim.

Let us Unite our brothers and sisters under one banner Muslims and Islamic faith, let us hold firm the (rope) faith of Our Lord Islam and be true Muslims, let us be patient and he will make us Victorious, Asalamu aleykum warah matulahi wa barakatuh

A. Suleiman

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Sign*Reader

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Joined: 02 November 2005
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Posted: 16 December 2007 at 2:09am

Originally posted by raymond

i dont think anyone is trying to convert me..

Not until God blesses you to see the right from wrong! No body is converted by others, it is just the recollection and reiteration of the promise & contract your soul made at the time of it's creation and receiving when you took the first breath to become a human being. And it is all recorded.

Originally posted by raymond

I dislike ALL religions and wonder about the righteous people that follow all of them.

Most people dislike a binding contract accept those who are conscious of their obligations whether written or not verbal contract is also binding with witness you know! That differentiate man / woman from the juveniles! There is huge industry to keep the people true to their obligations in their lives --called contract attorneys.
I don't know what you meant by-- follow all of them

Originally posted by raymond

I understand my own beliefs very well but thats very easy for me as they are my beliefs and not just ones I read in a book or learnt from a priest/preacher/prophet/conman etc

You need to elaborate briefly what your beliefs are and what you intend to gain by your altercations here!

Edited by Sign*Reader

Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.

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OSCAR

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Posts: 33

Posted: 04 January 2008 at 3:11pm

Maybe you could explain why there is so much violence, cruelty & a lack of tolerance involved with Islam ie lashing a rape victim 200times or rioting over a cartoon etc..... I think all religions are manmaid to control people and no of them are "correct" but if I was forced to pick one then it definately wouldn't be Islam as its the most intolerant one.

[/QUOTE]

ISLAM AND THE QURAN RECOGNIZES AND ACCEPTS THAT CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM AND OTHER RELIGION CAME FROM GOD.

NO OTHER RELIGION OFFICIALLY ON EARTH ACCEPTS THAT ISLAM IS FROM GOD.

ISLAM IS INTOLERANT OF INJUSTICE, SO THE UNJUST WILL HATE IT

Edited by OSCAR

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Duende

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Location: Spain
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Posts: 651

Posted: 06 January 2008 at 4:57am

Non-muslim attitudes towards Islam are mostly based on what people
observe Muslim society to be doing, without seeking to find out whether
what Muslims do is directly because of the Koran, or more to do with their
own interpretation and understanding of it, their cultural environment, or
even their social history.

Anyway, those who come here to berate Muslims for applying capital
punishment or state-sanctioned beatings or stoning, do so from a
position of "you say this, but you DO this". A position of assumed
superiority. I just don't understand why they don't apply the same degree
of critical analyses to Christianity or Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism.

Could it be that these religions have not been demonised by the
mainstream media, in accord with their political masters ... ?

I don't understand why they don't question WHY they are compelled to
judge Islam and Moslems, and not any other Abrahamic faith.

Oscar says: "Maybe you could explain why there is so much violence,
cruelty & a lack of tolerance involved with Islam"- maybe he could
explain why there is so much violence, cruelty and institutionalised
torture exported via films and the 'entertainment' media, or why there is
so much cruelty, violence and lack of tolerance towards the inhabitants of
Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, Darfur, the Congo, Ethiopia ...

"I think all religions are manmaid to control people and no of them are
"correct" but if I was forced to pick one then it definately wouldn't be
Islam as its the most intolerant one"- Fine, but what's the point in telling
Muslims on an Islamic forum this?

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mariyah

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Joined: 29 March 2006
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Posts: 1283

Posted: 06 January 2008 at 7:36pm

Originally posted by raymond

Originally posted by Cassandra

I am unsure as to where you live, but have you looked at Fundamentalist Propaganda in the US lately? Tolerance there? I live in Spain. Islam here was tolerant enough of other religions to allow all to worship freely...

...until the Catholic Monarchs threw them out. And the Inquisition moved in.

Please do, check your facts, and don't throw the Islamic Baby out with the Propagandistic Bathwater. You have chosen to visit here. If you stop and listen carefully enough, you might learn something that will challenge your ideas. No-one is asking you to convert (I am more Christian Gnostic than anything else) but you might be able to understand your own beliefs better if you are open to those of others. It is not as you have been told.

I have been on here plenty of times and read alot of extreme views from both sides. I just don't bother posting as everyone is so singleminded & righteous that they're manmade religion is right that its pointless trying to 'reason' with them.

With regards to Spain all those many years ago...... I am all to aware how holding onto history can generate hatred of cultures or countrys so I think I'll stick to the here and now and not go back through time to say "well the christians did this" or "the muslims did that" etc.

As for the propaganda bit .. ... could a western women walk down a street in a muslim country ie Iraq, Iran, wearing a mini skirt etc ..... nope.... Is it propaganda that an english teacher was arrested for calling a teddy bear mohammed?? nope. Is it propaganda that muslims rioted after a cartoon was drawn of mohammed ? nope. Are you trying to suggest that Muslims extremist are not worse, more extreme than christian fundamentalists?? coz if you are then it is you that is spreading the propaganda.

i dont think anyone is trying to convert me..I dislike ALL religions and wonder about the righteous people that follow all of them. I understand my own beliefs very well but thats very easy for me as they are my beliefs and not just ones I read in a book or learnt from a priest/preacher/prophet/conman etc

Peace be to you Raymond.

In the Quran it states :29:46 And do not argue with the followers of earlier revelation otherwise than in a most kindly manner - unless it be such of them as are bent on evildoing <>Asad(29,42)^[42] and say: “We believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you: or our God and your God is one and the same, and it is unto Him that We [all] surrender ourselves.”

I believe that God allows all religions to exist for a purpose, that we may learn to tolerate each other's differences and learn to accept each other beliefs without judging them or downgrading the value of each other's differences.
Certainly, each person of one faith seems to believe that God or access to God can only be attained through the participation of a person in that one faith only. I do not believe this is the case.
God has projected one continuing theme through all his messengers and prophets: Love your neighbor as you would love for yourself, desire for your neighbor what you would desire for yourself. Give to charity, be charitable, give of your excess to those who are in need or have less than yourself. Honor God, respect what He has provided for you, be respectful of your fellow people of the book.
One thing in common, we All believe that God, Allah, Yahweh is the final judge and that We will stand before Him on the Last Day to be Judged.
I am sorry for those who do not have the hope, the hope of a life after this one that can be better and less painful. What does one hope for or have to attain to if you only believe in what you have now and that you are the descendant of a guppy.
True, from dust we are and to dust we must return, but where does the essence, the essence of the spirit we are or the personality we are, go to after physical death? Why make the effort to better ourselves if all we are is to be ash. I believe that Allah Subanallah wa taala will raise all who are worthy to a better place.

May you find what you desire in this life.

Mariyah

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.

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Whisper
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Location: United Kingdom
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Posts: 4752

Posted: 06 January 2008 at 10:54pm

As for the propaganda bit .. ... could a western women walk down a street in a muslim country ie Iraq, Iran, wearing a mini skirt etc

My absolutely brilliant sisters, please, just spare him. He is just a man. For him the ultimate of see wee lie zation is to see a woman walking down a street in a mini skirt or preferably with nothing on at all!!

Sasha Khanzadeh

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Whisper
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Joined: 25 July 2004
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Posts: 4752

Posted: 06 January 2008 at 11:00pm

ISLAM IS INTOLERANT OF INJUSTICE, SO THE UNJUST WILL HATE IT

You deserve an Oscar for this line, my friend.

Sasha Khanzadeh

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Author	Message
Diagoras Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 115	Posted: 15 December 2007 at 1:45pm
	Raymond, I am an atheist as well, however, I am not a jerk about it. Randomly insulting people and acting like a general troll has given atheism a bad name, and your actions aren't helping. If you want to discuss the issue of intolerance in Islam, I would suggest making a reasoned, sensitive post in the Interfaith Dialogue forum.
	A proud constitutional democratic republican. The board's friendly neighborhood atheist.
	IP Logged

The Guided One Senior Member Joined: 20 November 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 101	Posted: 15 December 2007 at 2:32pm
	Asalamu aleykum warah matulahi wa baraktuh, Bismilahi Rahmani Rahiim. My follow Musilim i s2 islam, I was just thinking about this matter 15 minutes ago. I thought about how peaceful the Muslims are, and how law obydient we are, yet there is still enemies of the Muslims. I believe the Enemies of the Muslim don't hate us personally as people but they hate our fate, they Hate Islam and Allah, in their souls they believe Islam is the right religion yet they have no wisdom and understanding, how can they hate a religion they believe is the right one? they are damb, deaf, and blind and they are not returning to Allah. They hate us because of our faith not that we are violant or threat to them, they are the enemies of Allah and his religion, so they are clearly fighting Allah's religion and they hate his followers. They will never accept us till we disbelieve, even we become their slaves, they will never accept our peace and love. So My follow Muslims be aware of the Enemies of Allah and never obey them, let us not aid the enemies of Allah by dividing the Believers, let us not lose our patience, let us ask Allah to guide us to his path and let us ask him to make us faithful believers who invite people to the way of Allah. Allah does not change the condtion of people till they change their own condtions, the key to success is following Our Messenger Mohammed Aleyhi Salaam and his way of faith, let us follow Allah's religion Islam and be true Muslims, We are Muslims and our faith is Islam! let us never add any other name after Islam and Muslim. Let us Unite our brothers and sisters under one banner Muslims and Islamic faith, let us hold firm the (rope) faith of Our Lord Islam and be true Muslims, let us be patient and he will make us Victorious, Asalamu aleykum warah matulahi wa barakatuh
	A. Suleiman
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Sign*Reader Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3352	Posted: 16 December 2007 at 2:09am
	*Originally posted by raymond* i dont think anyone is trying to convert me.. Not until God blesses you to see the right from wrong! No body is converted by others, it is just the recollection and reiteration of the promise & contract your soul made at the time of it's creation and receiving when you took the first breath to become a human being. And it is all recorded. *Originally posted by raymond* I dislike ALL religions and wonder about the righteous people that follow all of them. Most people dislike a binding contract accept those who are conscious of their obligations whether written or not verbal contract is also binding with witness you know! That differentiate man / woman from the juveniles! There is huge industry to keep the people true to their obligations in their lives --called contract attorneys. I don't know what you meant by-- follow all of them *Originally posted by raymond* I understand my own beliefs very well but thats very easy for me as they are my beliefs and not just ones I read in a book or learnt from a priest/preacher/prophet/conman etc You need to elaborate briefly what your beliefs are and what you intend to gain by your altercations here! Edited by Sign*Reader
	Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
	IP Logged

OSCAR Newbie Joined: 29 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 33	Posted: 04 January 2008 at 3:11pm
	Maybe you could explain why there is so much violence, cruelty & a lack of tolerance involved with Islam ie lashing a rape victim 200times or rioting over a cartoon etc..... I think all religions are manmaid to control people and no of them are "correct" but if I was forced to pick one then it definately wouldn't be Islam as its the most intolerant one. [/QUOTE] ISLAM AND THE QURAN RECOGNIZES AND ACCEPTS THAT CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM AND OTHER RELIGION CAME FROM GOD. NO OTHER RELIGION OFFICIALLY ON EARTH ACCEPTS THAT ISLAM IS FROM GOD. ISLAM IS INTOLERANT OF INJUSTICE, SO THE UNJUST WILL HATE IT Edited by OSCAR
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Duende Senior Member Joined: 27 July 2005 Location: Spain Online Status: Offline Posts: 651	Posted: 06 January 2008 at 4:57am
	Non-muslim attitudes towards Islam are mostly based on what people observe Muslim society to be doing, without seeking to find out whether what Muslims do is directly because of the Koran, or more to do with their own interpretation and understanding of it, their cultural environment, or even their social history. Anyway, those who come here to berate Muslims for applying capital punishment or state-sanctioned beatings or stoning, do so from a position of "you say this, but you DO this". A position of assumed superiority. I just don't understand why they don't apply the same degree of critical analyses to Christianity or Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism. Could it be that these religions have not been demonised by the mainstream media, in accord with their political masters ... ? I don't understand why they don't question WHY they are compelled to judge Islam and Moslems, and not any other Abrahamic faith. Oscar says: "Maybe you could explain why there is so much violence, cruelty & a lack of tolerance involved with Islam"- maybe he could explain why there is so much violence, cruelty and institutionalised torture exported via films and the 'entertainment' media, or why there is so much cruelty, violence and lack of tolerance towards the inhabitants of Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, Darfur, the Congo, Ethiopia ... "I think all religions are manmaid to control people and no of them are "correct" but if I was forced to pick one then it definately wouldn't be Islam as its the most intolerant one"- Fine, but what's the point in telling Muslims on an Islamic forum this?
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mariyah Senior Member Joined: 29 March 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1283	Posted: 06 January 2008 at 7:36pm
	*Originally posted by raymond* *Originally posted by Cassandra* I am unsure as to where you live, but have you looked at Fundamentalist Propaganda in the US lately? Tolerance there? I live in Spain. Islam here was tolerant enough of other religions to allow all to worship freely... ...until the Catholic Monarchs threw them out. And the Inquisition moved in. Please do, check your facts, and don't throw the Islamic Baby out with the Propagandistic Bathwater. You have chosen to visit here. If you stop and listen carefully enough, you might learn something that will challenge your ideas. No-one is asking you to convert (I am more Christian Gnostic than anything else) but you might be able to understand your own beliefs better if you are open to those of others. It is not as you have been told. I have been on here plenty of times and read alot of extreme views from both sides. I just don't bother posting as everyone is so singleminded & righteous that they're manmade religion is right that its pointless trying to 'reason' with them. With regards to Spain all those many years ago...... I am all to aware how holding onto history can generate hatred of cultures or countrys so I think I'll stick to the here and now and not go back through time to say "well the christians did this" or "the muslims did that" etc. As for the propaganda bit .. ... could a western women walk down a street in a muslim country ie Iraq, Iran, wearing a mini skirt etc ..... nope.... Is it propaganda that an english teacher was arrested for calling a teddy bear mohammed?? nope. Is it propaganda that muslims rioted after a cartoon was drawn of mohammed ? nope. Are you trying to suggest that Muslims extremist are not worse, more extreme than christian fundamentalists?? coz if you are then it is you that is spreading the propaganda. i dont think anyone is trying to convert me..I dislike ALL religions and wonder about the righteous people that follow all of them. I understand my own beliefs very well but thats very easy for me as they are my beliefs and not just ones I read in a book or learnt from a priest/preacher/prophet/conman etc Peace be to you Raymond. In the Quran it states :29:46 And do not argue with the followers of earlier revelation otherwise than in a most kindly manner - unless it be such of them as are bent on evildoing <>Asad(29,42)^[42] and say: “We believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you: or our God and your God is one and the same, and it is unto Him that We [all] surrender ourselves.” I believe that God allows all religions to exist for a purpose, that we may learn to tolerate each other's differences and learn to accept each other beliefs without judging them or downgrading the value of each other's differences. Certainly, each person of one faith seems to believe that God or access to God can only be attained through the participation of a person in that one faith only. I do not believe this is the case. God has projected one continuing theme through all his messengers and prophets: Love your neighbor as you would love for yourself, desire for your neighbor what you would desire for yourself. Give to charity, be charitable, give of your excess to those who are in need or have less than yourself. Honor God, respect what He has provided for you, be respectful of your fellow people of the book. One thing in common, we All believe that God, Allah, Yahweh is the final judge and that We will stand before Him on the Last Day to be Judged. I am sorry for those who do not have the hope, the hope of a life after this one that can be better and less painful. What does one hope for or have to attain to if you only believe in what you have now and that you are the descendant of a guppy. True, from dust we are and to dust we must return, but where does the essence, the essence of the spirit we are or the personality we are, go to after physical death? Why make the effort to better ourselves if all we are is to be ash. I believe that Allah Subanallah wa taala will raise all who are worthy to a better place. May you find what you desire in this life. Mariyah
	"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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Whisper Male Other Senior Member Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4752	Posted: 06 January 2008 at 10:54pm
	As for the propaganda bit .. ... could a western women walk down a street in a muslim country ie Iraq, Iran, wearing a mini skirt etc My absolutely brilliant sisters, please, just spare him. He is just a man. For him the ultimate of see wee lie zation is to see a woman walking down a street in a mini skirt or preferably with nothing on at all!!
	Sasha Khanzadeh
	IP Logged

Whisper Male Other Senior Member Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4752	Posted: 06 January 2008 at 11:00pm
	ISLAM IS INTOLERANT OF INJUSTICE, SO THE UNJUST WILL HATE IT You deserve an Oscar for this line, my friend.
	Sasha Khanzadeh
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Topic: Why war on ISLAM??
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