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Introduction: Who am I?
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2007 at 7:01pm

Originally posted by Diagoras

And to the Constitution, right?

You mean how it allowed slavery and didn't give the vote to women and blacks?

No.  I think I'll bravely say that we could use a new one.  We have way too many loopholes allowing for systemic human rights abuses in and outside of America.

If a bunch of ethnocentric, slaveowning white guys could do it, I'd say that we'd have a good chance of doing a better job today with women, blacks, asians, hispanics, arabs contributing to the process.

Peace

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Diagoras
 
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Quote Diagoras Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2007 at 9:01pm
The fact that both of those horrors were abolished shows that the system works, it self-corrects. But anyway, what in particular would you rewrite?

Oh, by the way, it's not the American Constitution in particular that my sig talks about but rather a constitutional form of government. Namely, a representative democracy with separation of powers and enshrined individual liberties.
A proud constitutional democratic republican.

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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 21 November 2007 at 6:09am

Originally posted by Diagoras

The fact that both of those horrors were abolished shows that the system works, it self-corrects. But anyway, what in particular would you rewrite?

Oh, by the way, it's not the American Constitution in particular that my sig talks about but rather a constitutional form of government. Namely, a representative democracy with separation of powers and enshrined individual liberties.

Salaams,

Enshrining something is akin to worshipping it.  The Constitution is a piece of paper written by the people I mentioned previously, a bunch of nasty white guys who cared for their own freedoms but not that of people of color or women.

They did a few things right.  We should keep those things.  It is not self-correction when the blood and lives of hundreds of thousands is spilled to change it.  And right now it is an embarrassing, evil shame on all of us.  We sit here quietly discussing this while millions of people suffer because of its inadequacies. 

Now, if the people of this land -- where I and my family have lived for a couple hundred years -- rise up, as Tom Jefferson recommended we do, and overthrow this tyranical, evil, culture-and-country-destroying machine, then I may say that it is eventually self-correcting.  I am ashamed of this government and those of my people who are in power today who allow this evil empire that it has become, to continue, while all we do is say:  This is bad!  We need to do something!  Let's DO something!

Wait.  Maybe the people who are relatively comfortable in our homes, even though we struggle with all of the torture and deaths, are just sitting here saying:  As long as they don't come for Me, it's better not to really do anything.  (We know that this lack of principle has not worked in the past of course.  They'll come for us whenever it suits them.)

We should have stood up to Bush and thrown him out long ago!  We are responsible, and so is our constitution, which I consider completely unenshrinable.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Quote Diagoras Replybullet Posted: 21 November 2007 at 12:42pm
Okay, what would you change about the Constitution?

And by the way, do you support a constitutional democratic republic?
A proud constitutional democratic republican.

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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2007 at 10:21am

Originally posted by Diagoras

Okay, what would you change about the Constitution?

And by the way, do you support a constitutional democratic republic?

Salaams,

To answer your first question, I would need to sit down with that paper, the constitution, and go over it in detail to tell you the necessary changes, which I'm not interested in doing.  When I am asked to be a part of a committee that would undertake that, that might be a different story.

As to your second question, I kind of feel like a Czech during the Second World War being questioned by the Nazis during occupation as to my loyalties to the Fuhrer.  Do you know how bad that question sounds during these times of the UnPatriotic Act and liberal suspension of your hallowed "Bill of Rights"? 

People are shocked when I tell them that DHS could come into anyone's homes here in good ole USA and search, seize, and take you away without charging you or informing anyone of your whereabouts.

When you haven't seen me post for months at a time, you'll know I'm banned, dead or taken prisoner for being a believer in Allah, and a believer in human rights and freedom, and an outspoken critic of your hallowed system of government and finances!

Allah, the Most Loving, does not take human rights away ever.  Allah, The Glorious, gives us rights and responsibilities, and our loyalites as Muslims lie with Allah, The Most Righteous, not a government system or a paper that destroys humanity, and especially those who love Allah.

Allah, The Just, embued women and people of all races with inherent dignity.  It is only blind loyalty to systems not inspired by Allah that creates agony among humanity.  We need to know that all cultures, all races, all people can return to Allah's mercy through listening to the wisdom that Allah, The Wise, has provided for us.  Really, we need to start by stopping the destruction and by taking real, positive action that makes a difference in this world.  And I say that last sentence to you as a fellow American.

Peace

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Quote Diagoras Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2007 at 12:18pm
Erm...the United States is the way it is today precisely because it didn't follow its constitutional origins.  As you pointed out, the Bill of Rights specifically prohibits many currently existing laws and is being violated.

I'm not asking if you support America, or its Constitution. I'm asking if you support a system built on the principles of a constitutional republic (institutional checks and balances, power comes from the people, separation of church and state, etc.) From your reply I'm guessing you support a theocratic state, is this true?
A proud constitutional democratic republican.

The board's friendly neighborhood atheist.
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2007 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by Diagoras

Erm...the United States is the way it is today precisely because it didn't follow its constitutional origins.  As you pointed out, the Bill of Rights specifically prohibits many currently existing laws and is being violated.

I'm not asking if you support America, or its Constitution. I'm asking if you support a system built on the principles of a constitutional republic (institutional checks and balances, power comes from the people, separation of church and state, etc.) From your reply I'm guessing you support a theocratic state, is this true?


Salaams,

I disagree with you Diagoras.  The problem rests in the fact that the US government was founded by people who owned slaves and didn't regard women as intelligent beings with the right to vote.  A foundation of such evil matters can only bring evil into it. 

However, Islaam came into an idol worshiping, misogynistic, corrupt, class conscious, slave trading society and turned it around with some immediate laws, and some that were eased in over time to end all of these evil practices. 

Many people have twisted the laws of Allah, The Evolver, and they will meet the judgment of Allah, The All-Powerful for their deeds.  However, the basic ideals of how a society should operate do lie within the tenets of Islaam.  And that is a much better place to start to make a document designed to govern with peace, fairness, and respect for human and animal life and property.
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Quote Diagoras Replybullet Posted: 24 November 2007 at 9:30pm
The United States also grew out of its slave-trading, misogynistic background. However, theocracies such as Afghanistan and Iran have intensely oppressive laws regarding women and civil liberties.

Where in the tenets of Islam are checks and balances, or democracy, or unalienable liberties enumerated? And how is a government built on Muslim principles fair to all of its non-Muslim citizens?

Democracy and republicanism - including respect for human rights - only arose out of the Enlightenment when the power of religious, autocratic authorities was replaced with secular, democratic ones. Christofascist here in the United States are trying to return us to a Dark Ages civilization, I do not wish to follow them.
A proud constitutional democratic republican.

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