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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by Abdul-Azeem'876

The word Sunnah linguisticly means: a path or a way. The Sharia meaning has many. The Scholars of fiqh define it as an act that is not obligatory to do but if you do it you will get reward for doing so. The Scholars of Hadith define it as all the statements, actions, approvals, and characteristics of the Prophet(saw). The Scholars of Aqeedah define it as what a Muslim believes, following the beliefs of the Prophet(saw) and the companions. The word hadith linguisticly means Something new. The sharia meaning of hadith is the statements of the Prophet, so the Sunnah is perserved in the Ahadith. Now what is the status of the Sunnah in Islam there are three views held # 1. The Sunnah in Islam is second to Al'Qur'an. # 2. Al-Qur'an and Sunnah are equivalent in weight in terms of law. # 3. You can not understand the Qur'an without the Sunnah. and the last two views are regarded the most. But when certain ahadith dont sit well with you is not an excuse to turn a blind eye to them.


Qur'aan stands Supreme over Hadith and other material. If anything does not stand correct in the light and shade of Qur'aan, it is not obligatory.

The Jahils, the brutes and the ruthless of Al' Aa'raab (Desert of Arabia), turned to Almighty Lord Allah within 23 years of hearing Qur'aan only with it's message piercing into their hearts, minds and souls. There was no hadith collection, etc then. It was the Message of Qur'aan.

In terms of being faithful to God Almighty, only the Jews are fiercely monotheistic as Muslims. And that is why Allah saved them from the Pharoah and delivered them because of their unfalteirng faith and full belief. Hitler and Nazi Germany wanted to finish them and in turn they were finished. The Jews survived.

While we are on this subject, how come there is no hadith to finish the Christians, who believe in a triune God, a "God" that neither the Jews nor the Muslims believe in?   

Please show me a single verse of Qur'aan that would support that Hadith from Abu Huraira.

Just because some ahaadith are in collections, it does not mean they are accepted and applicable. They are considered Da'eef meaning weak, defective or not solid. It is just unfortunate that they were not thrown out of the collections, resulting in miseries for Islam and the Muslims in the modern world. I am sorry to write that but that is the truth.




Edited by BMZ
Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by BMZ

Originally posted by minuteman

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks

Why are you torturing me, minuteman? You are huting my eeeyyyyeees.

Bro BMZ: Use Mozilla Firefox as your browser, will make zooming in on minuteman's mini fonts a piece of cake!

I would like to add my 2 cents but will wait couple of days, let bro A-A'876 respond first!

Edited by Sign*Reader
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 1:21am


 Sorry BMZ I disturbed you with my font. But I am reading with some difficulty. So please bear with me.

 Now about Abdul Azeem, he did well in building up his post, i.e. historically and biblically. But in the end  I feel that he entered into wrong field. I personally do not believe that any bloody Mahdi will come and Jesus will land to assist Mahdi to kill all the disbelievers. Never any prophet has ever come for that purpose in the world.

That theory is against the peaceful mission of Islam and also against the tolerant view of Islam. "There is no compulsion in religion".

 I had known that some Ulema (I do not name them here), on the basis of some Ahadith, have set up a battlefield. They are even manouvering the forces of Imam Mahdi too.

Mod-Edit: changed the font size, with due respect to minuteman.

Edited by BMZ
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Quote Daniel Dworsky Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 3:41am
Originally posted by Abdul-Azeem'876

I seek Refuge with Allah from shaytan
the Accursed,In the Name of Allah the Most gracious Most merciful,All
Praise be to Allah the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds,I bear witness
that there is none worthy of worship except Allah,And I bear witness that
Muhammed is his last and Final Messenger,May Allah Send Blessings
upon Muhammad, His Family, His Companions,And All those who follow
Him until the Last Day,And who ever Allah guides then none can misguide
themAnd who ever Allah leaves to stray then no one can guide them,[/

The land of Palestine was inhabited by Palestinian Arabs. In 1850
these consisted of approximately 400,000 Muslims, 75,000 Christians,
and 25,000 Jews. For centuries these groups had lived in harmony: 80
percent Muslim, 15 percent Christian, 5 percent Jewish.(according to
rel=nofollow><SPAN =yshortcuts id=lw_1193981887_0>
[COLOR=#003399">[/COLOR"></SPAN> ;
But now everyday I wake up and read about something bad happening in
<SPAN =yshortcuts id=lw_1193981887_1 style="CURSOR: hand;
BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">Israel</SPAN> and Palestine a
conflict that has lasted since 1948 do to religious and political reasons
alike; I would like to touch up on the religious ones. This conflict is
supported by Jews and fundamentalist Christians alike for the Jews who
think Yahweh promised them the Land and for the Christians who are
waiting for the second coming of Jesus(pbuh) which they believe he will
commence his reign over a re-established Jewish nation in the <SPAN
=yshortcuts id=lw_1193981887_2 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-
BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">Middle east</SPAN> because of the
belief that the Jews must be returned to the Biblical lands of Judaea and
Samaria before the world can end as talked about in various places in the
New testament and depicted in the Book of Acts 1:6-12 where it states
"So When they when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at
this time going to restore the kingdom to <SPAN =yshortcuts
id=lw_1193981887_3 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc
1px dashed">Israel</SPAN>?" He said to them: "It is not for you to know
the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will
receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my
witnesses in <SPAN =yshortcuts id=lw_1193981887_4 style="CURSOR:
hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">Jerusalem</SPAN>, and
in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." After he said this,
he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their
sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when
suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galilee,"
they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus,
who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same
way you have seen him go into heaven." Then they returned to <SPAN
=yshortcuts id=lw_1193981887_5 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-
BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">Jerusalem</SPAN> from the hill called
the <SPAN =yshortcuts id=lw_1193981887_6 style="CURSOR: hand;
BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">Mount of Olives</SPAN>, a
Sabbath day's walk from the city."


Let us Journey through the Biblical text and find out the truth of the
Matter.Genesis 17:1-8 are the Verses in the Torah the Jews Believe is
what entitles them to Philistine or as written in the Torah "all the land of
Canaan" please read them."1And when Abram was ninety years old and
nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty
God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2And I will make my covenant
between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.3And Abram fell
on his face: and God talked with him, saying, 4As for me, behold, my
covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be
Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. 6And I will make
thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall
come out of thee. 7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee
and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant,
to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8And I will give unto
thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all
the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their
God."So Who are the seed of Abraham(pbuh)? The Answer given in the
Torah is in Genesis 17:19-21."19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear
thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish
my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after
him. 20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him,
and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve
princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21But my
covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at
this set time in the next year."As we see Abraham(as) had two sons Isaac
(as) and Ishmael(as); The father of the Jews is Isaac and the father of the
Arabs is Ishmael. This makes it clear if what the Torah says is true then
Philistine is entitled to both Arabs and Jews. Now the rhetorical question
is did Abraham(as) know the laws of God according to Genesis 26:5 he
did where it states: "5because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My
charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." now lets look into
the laws of inheritance particularly firstborn inheritance rights in
Deuteronomy 21:15-17.Deuteronomy 21:15-17 "15If a man has two
wives, one loved and the other unloved, and they have borne him
children, both the loved and the unloved, and if the firstborn son is of her
who is unloved, 16 then it shall be, on the day he bequeaths his
possessions to his sons, that he must not bestow firstborn status on the
son of the loved wife in preference to the son of the unloved, the true
firstborn. 17 But he shall acknowledge the son of the unloved wife as the
firstborn by giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he is the
beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his."This also opens
up the fact that Ishmael(as) would of got double the portion of
inheritence over Isaac(as) because Ishmael(as) was Abraham’s(as)
firstborn! So does this solve the problem cant the Arabs and Jews share
the land? Or are the Jews Ignorant of their own text, maybe they are
spending too much time reading the Talmud regardless here comes the
next point.How do we know Genesis 17:1-8 is even from Allah or not?
Well there is a test given in the Torah in Deuteronomy.Deuteronomy
18:21-22 "21And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word
which the LORD has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the
name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is
the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it
presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him."Now let us look at
Genesis 25:9-10Genesis 25:9-10 "9And his sons Isaac and Ishmael
buried him in the cave of Machpelah, which is before Mamre, in the field
of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, 10 the field which Abraham
purchased from the sons of Heth. There Abraham was buried, and Sarah
his wife." So when Abraham(as) died according to the Torah he did not
have all the land of Canaan but only the field of Ephron what he
"PURCHASED" from the sons of Heth so that thing did not come to pass as
stated in Genesis 17:8 so according to Deuteronomy 18:21-22 that is a
thing which the Lord has not Spoken. Because the absolute reality of the
matter is the Torah is not authentic or reliable as stated in the Book of
Jeremiah in chapter 8 verse 8 where it says "How can you say we are wise,
and the law of the lord is with us? But behold the lying pen of the scribes
have made into a lie." and for my English speaking friends Torah is
translated into English as law and a message to the Christians who
support the state of Israel read what Paul said in the Book of Hebrews
11:13 "All these great people died in faith. They did not get the things
that God promised his people, but they saw them coming far in the future
and were glad. They said they were like visitors and strangers on


As For us Muslims Allah(swt) Makes it very clear in the Glorious
Qur'an in Surah Ma'idah Ayat 11-14 and Ayah 82Surah 5:11-14 "O ye
who believe! Call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you when
certain men formed the design to stretch out their hands against you, but
((Allah)) held back their hands from you: so fear Allah. And on Allah let
believers put (all) their trust. Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the
Children of <SPAN =yshortcuts id=lw_1193981887_7 style="CURSOR:
hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">Israel</SPAN>, and we
appointed twelve captains among them. And Allah said: "I am with you: if
ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my
apostles, honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan,
verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with
rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath
truly wandered from the path or rectitude." But because of their breach of
their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they
change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the
message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a
few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their
misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. From those, too, who call
themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good
part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with
enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of
judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have
done."Surah 5:82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt
thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the
believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because
amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have
renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. Allah(swt) tells us in this
verse no one hates the Muslims more than the Jews and the Mushrikeen
but the Christians are the closest to us because among them are men
devoted to learning and they are not arrogant; its time to read between
the lines.What is Arrogance? The dictionary defines it as "offensive display
of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride. The fall of Shaytan
was do to his arrogance he was too proud to bow down before Adam(as)
because he felt he was better than him because he was made from fire
and Adam(as) was made from clay. It was Shaytan's Pride and Arrogance
that led to his destruction. The Jews are the same way they feel that Islam
and Christianity came from them and that they are better because they
where around first, its arrogance but it gets worse let me open your eyes
to some of the teachings of the Talmud.


(sources tooken from
Talmud is a sacred book of religious laws and regulations governing the
life of Jews worldwide. The following excerpts shed some light on why the
Jews, who are the product of such teachings, find it so hard to assimilate
in their host societies: "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-
Jews are not humans. THEY ARE BEASTS." TALMUD: Baba Mezia, 114b
(page referrals)."The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture says
to honor the dog more than the non-Jew." TALMUD:Ereget Raschi Erod,
22 30. "Even though God created the non-Jew they are still ANIMALS in
human form. It is not becoming of a Jew to be served by an animal.
Therefore he will be served by animals in human form." TALMUD:
Midrasch Talpioth, p 225, <SPAN =yshortcuts id=lw_1193981887_8
style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px
dashed">Warsaw</SPAN> 1855. "A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a
pregnant ANIMAL." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat 405. "Although the
non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the
Jew as a monkey to a human." TALMUD: Schene luchoth haberuth, p
250b. "The souls of non-Jews come from impure spirits and are called
PIGS." TALMUD: Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b. "If you eat with a non-Jew it is
the same as eating with a dog." TALMUD: Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b. "If a
Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express
sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss',
just as if one of his animals had died."" TALMUD: Jore Dea 377. "Sexual
intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."
OF A GENTILE." TALMUD: Sepher Ikkarim III c 25. "It is the law to kill
anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones
of the Torah." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat, Hagah 425. "A heretic
Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands." TALMUD: Abodah
Zara, 4b. "Every Jew who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is
doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." TALMUD: Bammidber raba
c 21 & jalkut 772. This is all from:
<SPAN =yshortcuts id=lw_1193981887_9>[COLOR=#003399">http://[/COLOR"></SPAN>
"Need I say more? But let
us see what Isa Ibn Maryam(as) said according to the New Testament in
the Gospel of Matthew about the Pharisees who have transformed into
what is now known today as Rabbinic Judaism.


Matthew 23:13-39


"13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut
up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves,
neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14Woe unto you, scribes
and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a
pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater
damnation. 15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye
compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye
make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16Woe unto
you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it
is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a
debtor! 17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the
temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18And, Whosoever shall swear by the
altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he
is guilty. 19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar
that sanctifieth the gift? 20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar,
sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21And whoso shall swear by the
temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22And he that
shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that
sitteth thereon. 23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye
pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier
matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have
done, and not to leave the other undone. 24Ye blind guides, which strain
at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees,
hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter,
but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26Thou blind Pharisee,
cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of
them may be clean also.27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees,
hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear
beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all
uncleanness. 28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men,
but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29Woe unto you, scribes
and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets,
and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30And say, If we had been in
the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in
the blood of the prophets. 31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves,
that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32Fill ye up
then the measure of your fathers. 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers,
how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34Wherefore, behold, I send
unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall
kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues,
and persecute them from city to city: 35That upon you may come all the
righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel
unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the
temple and the altar. 36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come
upon this generation. 37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the
prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I
have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens
under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you
desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye
shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord"


And I end with the some words from Allah(swt) and our beloved
Prophet Muhammad(saw).Surah 62:5-7 "The similitude of those who were
charged with the (obligations of the) <SPAN =yshortcuts
id=lw_1193981887_10 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM:
#0066cc 1px dashed">Mosaic</SPAN> Law, but who subsequently failed
in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but
understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the
Signs of Allah. and Allah guides not people who do wrong. Say: "O ye that
stand on Judaism! If ye think that ye are friends to Allah, to the exclusion
of (other) men, then express your desire for Death, if ye are truthful!" But
never will they express their desire (for Death), because of the (deeds)
their hands have sent .. them! and Allah knows well those that do
wrong!"Surah 47:38 "Behold, ye are those invited to spend (of your
substance) in the Way of Allah: But among you are some that are
niggardly. But any who are niggardly are so at the expense of their own
souls. But Allah is free of all wants, and it is ye that are needy. If ye turn
back (from the Path), He will substitute in your stead another people; then
they would not be like you!"


Surah 5:54 "O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from
his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will
love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting
in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find
fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He
pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things."Surah
3:110 "Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is
right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People
of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who
have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."


Surah 60:8 "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you
not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly
and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just."


Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as
saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight
against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would
hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say:
Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill
him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.May
Allah(swt) help the Muslims in Philistine with their struggles their
hardships and give them strength against those who resist faith May Allah
(swt) make it easy for them to overcome the injustices they are facing and
let nothing stop them and give them victory over the tyrant state of Israel
and May Allah(swt) forgive me for any mistakes I have made in writing all
this and most of all forgive me & all the Muslims for the sins we have
committed and grant all his believing servants Jannah, and May Allah(swt)
unite us all under the banner of Islam, and strengthen our unity.
AmeenAssalamu Alaikum wa Rhmatullahi wa Barakatu, Your Brother in
Islam, Abdul'Azeem Mujahid.

This is not what is written in the Talmud. A Human being is a human
being regardless of faith. We are not allowed to kill. Period. My brother
and I are cantors (Hazanim) I studied Torah Talmud Gemara in Yeshiva
(Midrash). You know full well that these same sort of lies are generated
about Islam.Like: "The word of a Muslim to an infidel is not binding" I
know that is not true. I do business with Muslims. I had heard so much
nonsense about Islam when I was growing up that I could not equate with
the actions of my Muslim friends who have always been just as truthful or
full of *****as my Jewish or christian friends. Our religions govern who
our parents let us marry what we are fed or taught to prepare as food and
answer our spiritual questions. I can't speak for the Quran because I'm
still trying to get through it But I have lapped the Torah Talmud and the
Gemorah No where in any of these books does it say that bearing false
witness to or killing non jews is less a catastrophe than to our own

There is much injustice. It has to be remedied. The solution is not
through alliance of jews and christians against Muslims or Jews and
Muslims against christians (although Salcahadin served us pretty well
during that crusade thing)

Again the solution starts with us being honest with ourselves first
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 4:17am
Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Originally posted by BMZ

Originally posted by minuteman

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks

Why are you torturing me, minuteman? You are huting my eeeyyyyeees.

Bro BMZ: Use Mozilla Firefox as your browser, will make zooming in on minuteman's mini fonts a piece of cake!

I would like to add my 2 cents but will wait couple of days, let bro A-A'876 respond first!

Thanks, Sign*Reader. You read it well. minuteman is having reading problem and he has promised to do something about it. In the mean time, Fire-Fox has confirmed that minuteman is using font size 1.

Can I have the two cents as soon as AZ posts.  



Edited by BMZ
Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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