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Abdul-Azeem'876
 
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Quote Abdul-Azeem'876 Replybullet Topic: Israel and Palestine a Muslim’s view
    Posted: 01 November 2007 at 10:44pm
I seek Refuge with Allah from shaytan the Accursed,
In the Name of Allah the Most gracious Most merciful,
All Praise be to Allah the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds,
I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah,
And I bear witness that Muhammed is his last and Final Messenger,
May Allah Send Blessings upon Muhammad, His Family, His Companions,
And All those who follow Him until the Last Day,
And who ever Allah guides then none can misguide them
And who ever Allah leaves to stray then no one can guide them,
 
The land of Palestine was inhabited by Palestinian Arabs. In 1850 these consisted of approximately 400,000 Muslims, 75,000 Christians, and 25,000 Jews. For centuries these groups had lived in harmony: 80 percent Muslim, 15 percent Christian, 5 percent Jewish.(according to www.ifamericansknew.com) But now everyday I wake up and read about something bad happening in Israel and Palestine a conflict that has lasted since 1948 do to religious and political reasons alike; I would like to touch up on the religious ones. This conflict is supported by Jews and fundamentalist Christians alike for the Jews who think Yahweh promised them the Land and for the Christians who are waiting for the second coming of Jesus(pbuh) which they believe he will commence his reign over a re-established Jewish nation in the Middle east because of the belief that the Jews must be returned to the Biblical lands of Judaea and Samaria before the world can end as talked about in various places in the New testament and depicted in the Book of Acts 1:6-12 where it states "So When they when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?" He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." Then they returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day's walk from the city."
 
Let us Journey through the Biblical text and find out the truth of the Matter.

Genesis 17:1-8 are the Verses in the Torah the Jews Believe is what entitles them to Philistine or as written in the Torah "all the land of Canaan" please read them.

"1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.3And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, 4As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. 6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. 7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

So Who are the seed of Abraham(pbuh)? The Answer given in the Torah is in Genesis 17:19-21.

"19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. 20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year."

As we see Abraham(as) had two sons Isaac (as) and Ishmael(as); The father of the Jews is Isaac and the father of the Arabs is Ishmael. This makes it clear if what the Torah says is true then Philistine is entitled to both Arabs and Jews. Now the rhetorical question is did Abraham(as) know the laws of God according to Genesis 26:5 he did where it states: "5because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." now lets look into the laws of inheritance particularly firstborn inheritance rights in Deuteronomy 21:15-17.

Deuteronomy 21:15-17 "15If a man has two wives, one loved and the other unloved, and they have borne him children, both the loved and the unloved, and if the firstborn son is of her who is unloved, 16 then it shall be, on the day he bequeaths his possessions to his sons, that he must not bestow firstborn status on the son of the loved wife in preference to the son of the unloved, the true firstborn. 17 But he shall acknowledge the son of the unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his."

This also opens up the fact that Ishmael(as) would of got double the portion of inheritence over Isaac(as) because Ishmael(as) was Abrahams(as) firstborn! So does this solve the problem cant the Arabs and Jews share the land? Or are the Jews Ignorant of their own text, maybe they are spending too much time reading the Talmud regardless here comes the next point.

How do we know Genesis 17:1-8 is even from Allah or not? Well there is a test given in the Torah in Deuteronomy.

Deuteronomy 18:21-22 "21And if you say in your heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken? 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him."

Now let us look at Genesis 25:9-10

Genesis 25:9-10 "9And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, which is before Mamre, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, 10 the field which Abraham purchased from the sons of Heth. There Abraham was buried, and Sarah his wife."

So when Abraham(as) died according to the Torah he did not have all the land of Canaan but only the field of Ephron what he "PURCHASED" from the sons of Heth so that thing did not come to pass as stated in Genesis 17:8 so according to Deuteronomy 18:21-22 that is a thing which the Lord has not Spoken. Because the absolute reality of the matter is the Torah is not authentic or reliable as stated in the Book of Jeremiah in chapter 8 verse 8 where it says "How can you say we are wise, and the law of the lord is with us? But behold the lying pen of the scribes have made into a lie." and for my English speaking friends Torah is translated into English as law and a message to the Christians who support the state of Israel read what Paul said in the Book of Hebrews 11:13 "All these great people died in faith. They did not get the things that God promised his people, but they saw them coming far in the future and were glad. They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth."
 
As For us Muslims Allah(swt) Makes it very clear in the Glorious Qur'an in Surah Ma'idah Ayat 11-14 and Ayah 82

Surah 5:11-14 "O ye who believe! Call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you when certain men formed the design to stretch out their hands against you, but ((Allah)) held back their hands from you: so fear Allah. And on Allah let believers put (all) their trust. Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And Allah said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my apostles, honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude." But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done."

Surah 5:82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

Allah(swt) tells us in this verse no one hates the Muslims more than the Jews and the Mushrikeen but the Christians are the closest to us because among them are men devoted to learning and they are not arrogant; its time to read between the lines.

What is Arrogance? The dictionary defines it as "offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride. The fall of Shaytan was do to his arrogance he was too proud to bow down before Adam(as) because he felt he was better than him because he was made from fire and Adam(as) was made from clay. It was Shaytan's Pride and Arrogance that led to his destruction. The Jews are the same way they feel that Islam and Christianity came from them and that they are better because they where around first, its arrogance but it gets worse let me open your eyes to some of the teachings of the Talmud.
 
(sources tooken from www.answering-christianity.com)

"The Talmud is a sacred book of religious laws and regulations governing the life of Jews worldwide. The following excerpts shed some light on why the Jews, who are the product of such teachings, find it so hard to assimilate in their host societies:

"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. THEY ARE BEASTS." TALMUD: Baba Mezia, 114b (page referrals)."The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture says to honor the dog more than the non-Jew." TALMUD:Ereget Raschi Erod, 22 30. "Even though God created the non-Jew they are still ANIMALS in human form. It is not becoming of a Jew to be served by an animal. Therefore he will be served by animals in human form." TALMUD: Midrasch Talpioth, p 225, Warsaw 1855. "A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant ANIMAL." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat 405. "Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew as a monkey to a human." TALMUD: Schene luchoth haberuth, p 250b. "The souls of non-Jews come from impure spirits and are called PIGS." TALMUD: Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b. "If you eat with a non-Jew it is the same as eating with a dog." TALMUD: Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b. "If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his animals had died."" TALMUD: Jore Dea 377. "Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals." TALMUD: Sanhedrin 74b. "IT IS PERMITTED TO TAKE THE BODY AND LIFE OF A GENTILE." TALMUD: Sepher Ikkarim III c 25. "It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat, Hagah 425. "A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands." TALMUD: Abodah Zara, 4b. "Every Jew who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." TALMUD: Bammidber raba c 21 & jalkut 772. This is all from: http://www.jews-for-allah.org"

Need I say more? But let us see what Isa Ibn Maryam(as) said according to the New Testament in the Gospel of Matthew about the Pharisees who have transformed into what is now known today as Rabbinic Judaism.
 
Matthew 23:13-39
 
"13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. 23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord"
 
And I end with the some words from Allah(swt) and our beloved Prophet Muhammad(saw).

Surah 62:5-7 "The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah. and Allah guides not people who do wrong. Say: "O ye that stand on Judaism! If ye think that ye are friends to Allah, to the exclusion of (other) men, then express your desire for Death, if ye are truthful!" But never will they express their desire (for Death), because of the (deeds) their hands have sent .. them! and Allah knows well those that do wrong!"

Surah 47:38 "Behold, ye are those invited to spend (of your substance) in the Way of Allah: But among you are some that are niggardly. But any who are niggardly are so at the expense of their own souls. But Allah is free of all wants, and it is ye that are needy. If ye turn back (from the Path), He will substitute in your stead another people; then they would not be like you!"
 
Surah 5:54 "O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things."

Surah 3:110 "Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
 
Surah 60:8 "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just."
 
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

May Allah(swt) help the Muslims in Philistine with their struggles their hardships and give them strength against those who resist faith May Allah(swt) make it easy for them to overcome the injustices they are facing and let nothing stop them and give them victory over the tyrant state of Israel and May Allah(swt) forgive me for any mistakes I have made in writing all this and most of all forgive me & all the Muslims for the sins we have committed and grant all his believing servants Jannah, and May Allah(swt) unite us all under the banner of Islam, and strengthen our unity. Ameen

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rhmatullahi wa Barakatu,
Your Brother in Islam, Abdul'Azeem Mujahid.

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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 7:53am

Originally posted by Abdul-Azeem'876

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

Dear Brother,

Wa alaikum assalaam,

I don't know whether I should  or  on above. Our dear prophet could not have said that. I trust prophet more than Abu Hurairah and this is my personal view. Prophet had many Sahabas who were Jews and they had embraced Islam. There were many Jews who had embraced Islam in the life of our dear prophet.

Can we think our prophet was really saying that in front of his ex-Jew Sahabas? So far there is no confirmed report that Israel has planted and grown more than 3.8 million Gharqad trees to protect each Israeli Jew from us.

Please remember that if two friends fight, they can sit down, talk it out, have peace and be friends again. However, if two brothers fight, it is a different matter. Only the brothers can sit down and talk it out, without outsiders.

Palestinians need Gandhis, not elder brothers who are the leaders of Islamic states. Please think hard on what I said. This is my view to which I am entitled.

BMZ

 

 

 

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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Quote Abdul-Azeem'876 Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 10:24am

Assalamu alaikum, that Hadith is Authentic. I know the truth can hurt sometimes but we have to be realistic you think a peace conference is going to put an end to this conflict, all i have to say is Jihad will continue until the day of judgment and im tired of apologetic Muslims not wanting to face the facts. Prophet Muhammad peace and blessing be upon once said "Who ever of you sees an evil act let him change it with his hands, if he is unable to do that then let him change it with his tounge, and if he is unable to do that then let him curse it with his heart and that is the weakest of faith." So if we are not going to fight against this injustice it is probably because of fear, then we should speak out against it as much as possible and if we dont do that it is probably because of laziness or apathy or both and if you just curse it with your heart then know you are weak in faith and I remind myself this before anyone else so inshaa'Allah no Muslim will get offended by this, Assalamu alaikum wa rhmatullah

Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6981-85

Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him.

Ubaidullah has reported this hadith with this chain of transmitters (and the Words are):" There is a Jew behind me."

Abdullah b. 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.

Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5sDa5FjkTA


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Daniel Dworsky
 
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Quote Daniel Dworsky Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 10:25am
This might help: I meant to send you the link but I'm aparently too st**id to
figure out how to do that with out Brother Suleymans help or a real eleven
year old child handy so just follow this on Google the way this old guy
does...
1: Type in Gush Shalom
2. When you get to the home page search for: Truth vs. Truth
3. It's a pamphlet that Uri Avnery put together in English, Hebrew and
Russian. Its a PDF file -downloadable if you like but you can read it on site.
Peace
Danny

Cousin Abdul if you read it let me know what you think

Edited by Daniel Dworsky
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Quote Abdul-Azeem'876 Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 11:42am
I will do so Inshaa'Allah and let me make it clear and hopefully the ayat from the Qur'an already did; I dont think all Jews are an evil race of people or anything of that nature for Allah(swt) says "If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors." So Among them the people of the book there are good people. And when Allah(swt) says "nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind." and The Verse in Surah Mumthama Ayah 8 "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just." and to help explain this I go to Tanwr al-Miqbs min Tafsr Ibn Abbs and it states "(Allah forbideth you not) to help and have relations with (those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes) i.e. from Mecca, nor helpe those who drove you out of it, (that ye should show them kindness) that you should have relations with them and help them (and deal justly with them) by honouring your pledges to them. (Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers) the just ones who honour their pledges. The latter are Khuza'ah, the people of Hilal Ibn 'Uwaymir, and Khuzaymah and the Banu Mudlij who signed a treaty with the Prophet (pbuh) before the year of the al-Hudaybiyyah and which stipulated that they will not fight against him, drive him out of Mecca or help anyone to drive him out of Mecca. It is for this reason that Allah did not forbid him from having relations with them."



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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:16pm

 

 I am not an anti Hadith person. I have rad both sides of the story above. The case from BMZ is quite strong. On the other side is the Hadith posted by Abdul, quite a few of them, pointing to a bloody battle.

 Can I suggest to Abdul sahib, that if we leave the Hadith alone for a while, could he please indulge and return to the Quran and find out something on this subject. i.e. of a fight between the Muslims and the Jews mentioned in the Quran. I hope he will not find any such thing at all.

 Now a reminder, please. It is an agreed principle of the religion of Islam that any great matter of much importance, say Haraam and Halaal, or life and death cannot be decided on the basis of Hadith  only. The proof for them must come from Quran.

 Since this matter is very serious and it involves killing of many people, I would suggest that the matter be sought in the text of the Quran. If not found there then please leave this idea. It will then have no value or importance. Even if there are 100 Hadith on this subject, if there is nothing about it in the Quran then I may not trust it. No hard feelings. Thanks

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Quote Abdul-Azeem'876 Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:44pm

The word Sunnah linguisticly means: a path or a way. The Sharia meaning has many. The Scholars of fiqh define it as an act that is not obligatory to do but if you do it you will get reward for doing so. The Scholars of Hadith define it as all the statements, actions, approvals, and characteristics of the Prophet(saw). The Scholars of Aqeedah define it as what a Muslim believes, following the beliefs of the Prophet(saw) and the companions. The word hadith linguisticly means Something new. The sharia meaning of hadith is the statements of the Prophet, so the Sunnah is perserved in the Ahadith. Now what is the status of the Sunnah in Islam there are three views held # 1. The Sunnah in Islam is second to Al'Qur'an. # 2. Al-Qur'an and Sunnah are equivalent in weight in terms of law. # 3. You can not understand the Qur'an without the Sunnah. and the last two views are regarded the most. But when certain ahadith dont sit well with you is not an excuse to turn a blind eye to them.


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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by minuteman

 

 I am not an anti Hadith person. I have rad both sides of the story above. The case from BMZ is quite strong. On the other side is the Hadith posted by Abdul, quite a few of them, pointing to a bloody battle.

 Can I suggest to Abdul sahib, that if we leave the Hadith alone for a while, could he please indulge and return to the Quran and find out something on this subject. i.e. of a fight between the Muslims and the Jews mentioned in the Quran. I hope he will not find any such thing at all.

 Now a reminder, please. It is an agreed principle of the religion of Islam that any great matter of much importance, say Haraam and Halaal, or life and death cannot be decided on the basis of Hadith  only. The proof for them must come from Quran.

 Since this matter is very serious and it involves killing of many people, I would suggest that the matter be sought in the text of the Quran. If not found there then please leave this idea. It will then have no value or importance. Even if there are 100 Hadith on this subject, if there is nothing about it in the Quran then I may not trust it. No hard feelings. Thanks

Why are you torturing me, minuteman? You are huting my eeeyyyyeees.

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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