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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 13 March 2005 at 8:40pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu,

Sunnipath.com is a website primarily for fiqh matters not Ihsan in particular. Thus it is a misjudgement and misinterpretation of texts and audios on the website, if one states that they are all 'sufis'

When one mentions the word 'sufi', (as it has been done in one of the above posts) it usually connotates to all the wako suifs we can find on the internet. The scholars on sunnipath have actually caution the students against such sufi tariqas or masters.

It is also a fashion, these days within the ummah to read the quran and hadith and become an alim, without the help of those who have mastered the sciences of these lituratures.

A hadith says that the scholars are inheritors of the prophets. Which means the true scholars, and their sincere transmission of knowledge is that which will carry on the message of the prophet to the comming generations.

Even in the times of the sahaba not everyone was counseled for interpretations. eg, Abu Hurayrah (RAA) has been reported as the narrator of maximum number of hadith, but when it comes to deeper understanding of those, Ibn Abbas is referred.

If the scholars are not given their due position in the community, it is an unhealthy sign.

Another hadith that says ... allah will take away knowledge from among the people of later times, by taking away the scholars from amongst them.  .... this is happening, where most are not willing to accept and transmit knowledge from the scholars.

People are coming up with their own (and to their best of knowledge, self sufficient) understandings of Quran and sunnah.

There are scholars for hadith sciences, for tafsir, for fiqh and so on. In the same way there are scholars for the inner dimensions of islam, ie Ihsan, and these are the scholars of tassawwuf - they are not wako sufis!

Sunnipath is a great place to learn. If one is put off without proper investigation, he/she is surely missing out on some beneficial knowledge, which it offers. One can receive this from the comfort of very home, it is a great opportunity.

Through the online academy I had the pleasure of talking to some scholars (of fiqh) on this website, and i dont find them irrational in any way.

In fact what I learnt from there is .... necessity dictates exception, but the exception is valid only to the limit of the necessity.

Today, in the online sessions a sister asked about sisters reading the quran in front of brothers, and the shaykh says the above about neccesity. He explined, if the sister is not reciting in beautiful qirah, but in a restrained voice, and it is the discussion in which she is mentioning the ayahs, with her recitation, it is not wrong. He went further to say that if in a community, there is only a sister who can teach tajwid (quranic recitation) to brothers, or if there is only a brother who can teach tajwid to sisters, it is not only permissible, but necessary to do so, in order to transmit the knowledge - of course, with proper adab, and cautions.

I find the answers in the Q&A section of sunnipath very reasonable and applicble to todays times.

Being cautious and investigative about the source of knowlege, in matters of deen is a good trait. However, investigations and cautions must be careful and sincere. After all the matter of deen is not a light matter, it relates to our souls and its success in the hereafter, insha allah.

Allahumma aghnina bi halalika an haramika

wa bi fadlika amman siwak

wa ta'tika an ma'si a tika.

 

Maa salaama,

Nausheen



Edited by Nausheen
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Mustafaa
 
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Quote Mustafaa Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2005 at 4:51am

As-salamu alaykum,

I didn't say Sufis are outside the fold of Islam or anything like that. I am only annoyed by many of their ways and attitudes. Not only Sufis, but also many other Islamic-group members have broken my heart very badly and haughtily. And that can't be just a coincidence. The Sufi or Wahhabi, etc. doctrines that they believe in often cause them to be rude and sometimes ruthless to other Muslims.

There is no deity but Allah. Muhammad is the (last) Messenger of Allah.
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Quote Suleyman Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2005 at 2:38pm

Nausheen Wrote:

"Even in the times of the sahaba not everyone was counseled for interpretations. eg, Abu Hurayrah (RAA) has been reported as the narrator of maximum number of hadith, but when it comes to deeper understanding of those, Ibn Abbas is referred. "

 Es_Selam'un Aleykum...

  This is the table seen from our side,it is unacceptable;if we look from the inner side with caring the acute points of science of shariat,we can clearly see from the writings of the Qur'an that the Meccan and Madinan society of Islam was not  depending on an absent system.It was an organic group that bringing all of the synergy including the muslims who are the soldiers,who are the imams,who are the aleems,who are specialists in their own areas at the same time with claiming any priority between each other.When we separated this wonderful system with saying that;everyone can't be a aleem;can't be an imam;can't be an soldier,can't be an scientist,who is your teacher?,who are you?,you can't live without depending to us;with forgetting the Allah's name as Rabb;forgetting the connections between these points as being an efficient muslim that carries the ability as we also saw this dirty game in the time renaissance..then the evil succeeded on the way with putting the ideas on the minds of the muslims as an separation;because it was the way of the success which the last prophet and his companions showed us to walk with an deep dimension of discovering all of the abilities a human being can have.This is an dirty game putting the Muslims in adjectives with ending their real adjective being as an full efficient Muslim teaching them eating the heritage without not reminding that they can add something,carry this religion to the next steps with caring the objective references of the holy Qur'an......

...Qur'an's doors are all open to the everyone whether he has a scholar or not;claiming that everyone should has  a scholar will be wrong in the universality of Qur'an.Qur'an is an living book, not an history book that can be memorized in the minds;scholars are the second hands in achieving to the universality of the Qur'an...you can find so many persons in the world being as an person who memorized the fiqh books,tafseers;but you can't find so much person carrying the heritage without eating it....

 Subhan'Allah,what a great religion we have that we have been eating it from an long time and it is not finished yet with our appointments to this religion opposing to it's soul....Wa Salaam.....

 

 

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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2005 at 8:05pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah,

In a hadith it has been said that if one interprets the Quran on his own, without having the knowledge, of what Allah has intended from that portion, he is in error, even if he is correct.

This is a very serious caution against interpreting the Quran. because Quran is the word of Allah. Thus if one says "the quran says such and such" it means  he is saying "Allah says such and such". And quoting allah without proper knowledge is a serious offense against the creator.

One the other hand reflection upon the Quranic verses is a duty of every muslim, when he reads the quran. You can share your reflection with believers, and even discuss these, pertaining to your own conditions, and this is all permissible.

There are levels of meanings in the quran. you may read a verse and it strikes you in a certain way on one occasion, and when you read it again, it will inspire you of yet another dimension in it. Whenever a believer reads the Quran he is guided thru it. Because allah has said that this is a guidance to the believers.

Interpretation is more encompassing. It is more universal in meaning, applicaple to a general public in varied circumstances. Above all interpretation is done with proper knowledge of what rasul allah has said about those verses, and how the sahaba had understood them. The way nabi sallallahu alaihe wassallam had understood and taught the quran, is the perfect way. Beacuse he is the perfect exemplar.

Reflection may apply to you in particular, in your particular state. Furhter, it will deepen, as you grow in understanding of the religion, and move closer to Allah. Thus your reflection is subject to improvement till you attain perfection.

Therefore, the understanding of the quran cannot be perfected by mere reflection alone. It needs to be understood as it was lived by the prophet, and his companions.

Maa salaama,

Nausheen

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2005 at 8:24pm
Deducing rulings or meanings from the Qur’an
Answered by Sidi Hamza Karamali    

Can regular Muslims who are not scholars read the translation of the Quran and deduce/conclude from it? if not, how are we to benefit from the meaning of the Quran? or should we not read the translation at all?

In the Name of Allah, Most Merciful and Compassionate

Knowing the meaning of what one is reciting is undoubtedly praiseworthy because it helps one read the Qur'an with focus of mind presence of heart. Without knowing what one is reciting, it is difficult to bring into practice verses of the Qur'an that describe the believers as "increasing in faith" (Anfal:2) or "shivering" (Zumar:23) when verses of the Qur'an are recited to them. Reading a good tafsir is especially helpful in this regard. Probably the best tafsir available in English is Ma`arif ul-Qur'an, by the late Mufti Muhammad Shafi` (may Allah have mercy on him), available from www.alrashad.com.

As for deducing particular fiqh rulings from the Qur'an, this is the domain of specialists. If one needs to know Allah's ruling regarding a particular aspect of one's daily life--such as the prayer, the fast, or other matters--one must refer to the scholars of fiqh, not to one's own understanding of the Qur'an. Allah told us in the Qur'an, "Ask those who know well if you know not."

A good article to read on this topic is: Would you advise individuals to study hadith from al-Bukhari and Muslim on their own?, available from Mas`ud Khan's site.

And Allah knows best.

Hamza.

Source:Sunnipath.com

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Suleyman
 
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Quote Suleyman Replybullet Posted: 15 March 2005 at 11:47am

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh Sister Nausheen,

 I'll tuun back to the topic as soon as  i have found myself,today i am really so tired to discuss.Also,Jazak Allah Khair for your articles which show me that i did not take the decision with my own tight perspective,i see the support with your articles to the soul of my message,especially the last one,Alhamdulilah.Also,i did not understand why we did not meet on the same point while your articles are giving an objective reference to the issue,also while we were talking on the same language.i'll turn back as soon as possible for the full explanations to step by step;i wish you did not take the offense from the explanations i have made in the thread,they all have an meaning;not an air,so many of them has no connection with your replies,just a little bit which we will discuss on from the serious examples...Wa Salaam...



Edited by Suleyman
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 15 March 2005 at 4:05pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rehman ir rahim,

Wa laikum assalam wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu Brother Suleyman

Originally posted by Suleyman

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh Sister Nausheen,

 I'll tuun back to the topic as soon as  i have found myself,today i am really so tired to discuss.Also,Jazak Allah Khair for your articles which show me that i did not take the decision with my own tight perspective,i see the support with your articles to the soul of my message,especially the last one,Alhamdulilah.Also,i did not understand why we did not meet on the same point while your articles are giving an objective reference to the issue,also while we were talking on the same language.i'll turn back as soon as possible for the full explanations to step by step;i wish you did not take the offense from the explanations i have made in the thread,they all have an meaning;not an air,so many of them has no connection with your replies,just a little bit which we will discuss on from the serious examples...Wa Salaam...

It is alright brother, even I am quite busy, till the end of this week. I think I did not read your post as carefully as I should.

Insha allah I will tend to it more closely when my mind is less occupied.

I would wish to respond to Mustafa as well. Dont want him to think am ignoring his last message insha allah.

Maa salaama,

Nausheen

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 20 March 2005 at 2:37am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

[QUOTE]sunnipath.com Note that this website is produced by Sufis. Sufis are mostly Sunni Muslims but many Muslims do not agree with some of their doctrines which are mostly in secondary issues not related to the main principles of Islam. What is also annoying about them is that they want to get a monopoly on the Sunni understanding of Islam. So many Muslims like myself are Sunnis but have no relationship with many things that the Sufis believe in or accept[/QUOTE]

Sunni path is not a sufi site claiming that it is shows the level of investigation you have carried out and how inacurate your claim really is.

It is a Fiqh bassed site answering questions from the hannafi and Shafii madhabs. All the answers given on that site are according to those madhabs. Sufism is the science of Ihsan which is an islamic science seperate from Fiqh.

All the answers on the site are according to traditional islamic scholars ie the four madhhabs they are not giving there own personel opinions these are the rulling of the madhahabs.

I think you should properly understand what sufism/tasawuf is and its place in islam rather than simply saying "this group made me angry so i dont like them" this is an unaccptable approach to understanding anything let alone an established islamic science ie tassawuf.

Tasawuf is the science developed by the scholars to teach moral excelence or rather Ihsan. It is a well established science rooted in the quran and sunnah simply becouse there somegroups out there who call them selves sufi and have wierd practices does not mean this is the normal behaviour of every person who practices this science.

Please dont generalise, look to the traditional schools of tasawuuf then judge, becouse all of the great scholrs of islam practised tasawwuf how else could they achieve the high moral standards.

Ibn `Abidin relates in his al Durr al mukhtar that Imam Abu Hanifa said: "If it were not for two years, I would have perished." Ibn `Abidin comments:

For two years he accompanied Sayyidina Ja`far al-Sadiq and he acquired the spiritual knowledge that made him a gnostic in the Way... Abu `Ali Daqqaq (Imam Qushayri's shaykh) received the path from Abu al-Qasim al-Nasirabadi, who received it from al Shibli, who received it from Sari al-Saqati who received it from al Ma`ruf al Karkhi, who received it from Dawud at Ta'i, who received the knowledge, both the external and the internal, from the Imam Abi Hanifa.

Ibn `Abidin, Hashiyat radd al-muhtar `ala al-durr al-mukhtar 1:43.


Just as Abu Hanifa and Sufyan al-Thawri implicitly asserted the necessity to follow the Sufi path for acquiring perfection, Imam Malik explicitly enjoined tasawwuf as a duty of scholars in his statement:

"He who practices Tasawwuf without learning Sacred Law corrupts his faith, while he who learns Sacred Law without practicing Tasawwuf corrupts himself. Only he who combines the two proves true."
It is related by the muhaddith Ahmad Zarruq (d. 899), the hafiz `Ali al-Qari al-Harawi (d. 1014), the muhaddiths `Ali ibn Ahmad al `Adawi (d. 1190) and Ibn `Ajiba (d. 1224), and others.


Al-hafiz al-Suyuti relates in Ta'yid al-haqiqa al-`aliyya that Imam al-Shafi`i said:

I accompanied the Sufis and received from them but three words: their statement that time is a sword: if you do not cut it, it cuts you; their statement that if you do not keep your ego busy with truth it will keep you busy with falsehood; their statement that deprivation is immunity.1

The muhaddith al-`Ajluni also relates in his book Kashf al khafa wa muzil al albas that Imam Shafi`i said:

Three things in this world have been made lovely to me: avoiding affectation, treating people kindly, and following the way of tasawwuf.2
1 Suyuti, Ta'yid al-haqiqa al-`aliyya p. 15
2 al-`Ajluni, Kashf al-khafa wa muzil al-albas 1:341 (#1089).

I will not make this post any longer but i can easily quote more islamic scholars on this subject. The situation is as Imam Malik said those who practice Tassawuf with out knowing Fiqh are those who have been corupted and we see these people all over the muslim world claiming to be sufi's.

From Imam Maliks words we can also see the standard of scholars at Sunnipath.com they are the ones who have combined the two.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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