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Jocko
 
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Quote Jocko Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2007 at 5:27pm

 

  The  christians claim  taht they have in their  possession  over 24,000 so called - originals of their Holy writ in the Greek language  and yet not a single parchment has jehovah written in it.

    Please be careful to check your facts.

    I have years ago heard the number of 24,000 but it was not in connection to the number of original autograph manuscripts, but ancient copies.

   

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Quote Jocko Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2007 at 6:15pm

 

  I wanted to bring your attnetion to the fact that its of no use when u meaninglessly utter words. Even if u feel any effect its just psycological effect.

    Our God is a living God. For you to make a blanket statement that all such speaking to God is meaningless uttering of words might only reflect that God is not real to you.

    Besides "O Lord Jesus" are not meaningless words.  We are confessing that Jesus is the center of our lives. We are confessing that He is on the throne by calling "Lord".

    Since He told us that we should love the Lord our God with our whole mind and whole heart and whole will it is not meaningless in and of itself that calling "O Lord Jesus" focuses our psychology on God.

  You see one half is our calling. The other half is His answering us. Our faith is responded to by His faithfulness. God delights to have fellowship with us in an intimate way.

  Would you tell your spouse that uttering "I love you" is meaningless?  

   Jesus is a living Person who responds to our faith and our love. And when we call "O Lord Jesus" with the sincerity (not mechanically) to touch the Spirit of Chrirst, He is there within us bearing withness:

  1.) "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our Spirit that we are the children of God" (Romans 8:6)

         No mocking of any unregenerated person with no experience of the living God can desuade the caller from inner witnessing of the Holy Spirit. He bears witness with the one calling "Lord Jesus" that he is now intimately in union with God.

  www.regenerated.net

 2.) " ... in Him also you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise, Who is the pledge of our inheritance unto the redemption of the acquired possession" (Eph. 1:14)

      The elegant arguments of unbelievers in Christ are not as real as the inward sealing of the Holy Spirit. God sets a living "seal" in the heart of the calling one. This seal is a foretaste of more enjoyment to come. This seal is a pledge of a greater inheriting of God to come. He is like an appetizer. He is a inward preview that we are indeed on the right track to call "O Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus come into me".

 3.)  Those that turn their hearts to call on the Lord Jesus God fills with His Spirit of reality. And the self satisfied who will not call on the Lord Jesus He sends away empty. So spiritual hunger is a pre-requisite to calling on the Lord Jesus to substantiate His living presence.

    "The hungry He has filled with good things, and the rich He has sent away empty"  (Luke 1:53)

 4.)  We should come to Jesus sick of dead religion and thirsty for the living God. Dead religion has nothing but it forms and rituals to offer. Christ came to give us life, that is the divine life flowing out of our innermost being.

    "Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If anyone thirst, let him come unto Me and drink. He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.

    But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed ino Him were about to receive ..." (John 7:37-39a)

    Religion with its dead rituals can cause our inner being to be thirsty for God. More rituals even if they are right, will not quench the spiritual thirst within man.

    But if we come to Christ calling on His name the Spirit of Christ will begin to flow out of our innermost being. He will flow out as rivers of living water. That is many rivers.

 He has a river for our mind to make it clear and bright and full of hope. He has a river for out emotion to turn us from idols and all things that replace God TO the living God as our deepest enjoyment. He has a river for our will to make it no longer stubburn but soft toward God. The Spirit of the resurrected Jesus will flow out of our innermost being quenching our thirst for God, for reality.

   God alone has the authority to establish the way to come to Him. He says that we come to Him under the covering of the redeeming blood of the Son of God.

 He had to be a man in order to die. And He had to be God to make the meaning and effectiveness His death have eternal significance. God has not overlooked man's sins in a sloppy way. He has judged man's sins in Christ.

 From our perspective is may seem like free forgiveness. From the standpoint of God there is no such thing as free forgiveness. Christ bore the penalty for our sins in His body on the cross. This scheme was established by God. It was not the invention of any man or group of men.

   God want you and I to know that we were judged on the cross in Christ. Christ died in our place. Justice was imputed on our behalf in the Son of God. This plan is established by the authority of God. He did not consult with the wise. He did not ask advice from the scholars of the human race. He established His way of salvation based upon His own eternal authority.

    So we can contact God Himself by praying " O Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus I was judged in You. Lord Jesus justice against my transgressions was imputed upon You on Your cross on my behalf. Lord Jesus cloth me now in Yourself. You are my righteousness before God."

    We must receive Christ and then our HISTORY becomes Jesus Christ. The record of our life becomes Jesus Christ. Our legacy is made Jesus Christ. We are justified as if we had never sinned.

   But that is not all. By calling on the Lord Jesus He Himself comes into our heart to impower us live a God-man life as He lived. His resurrection power invades our soul and uplifts our living.

   So you should try calling "O Lord Jesus. O Lord Jesus cleanse me now from every sin in your precious blood. O Lord Jesus I receive you as my Lord and my Savior forever. Thankyou Lord Jesus." 

   Praying this way if very effective in saving us out of dead religion with its dead rituals into the living God.

  

 



Edited by Jocko
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JasperStone
 
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Quote JasperStone Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2007 at 6:20pm
Hallelujah is Hebrew means "praise ye Jehovah".

Ye is archaic but is simply the plural of you.

Hallelujah  is composed of hâlal and yâhh.

In Revelation 19, allēlouia is Greek, but it comes from the Hebrew
Hallelujah and means exactly the same thing. It does not come from the name of Allah.

Jesus is the Greek version of the Hebrew Jehoshua, the anglicized form of which is Joshua.
Joshua means "Jehovah is salvation".

To call on Jesus is to call on Jehovah, the only true God and the One who is salvation.


Edited by JasperStone
For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, we shall be saved in His life, having been reconciled. (Rom 5:10)
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2007 at 6:38pm

I want the meaning of hebrew word 'Alleluya" and i did present its meaning there. If u think its wrong just prove it with its originality. I don't trust the translations u make in English. Any ways answer my other two questions at the end of previous page.

Jocko. this thread of yours "simple way to experience jesus" will be well fitted at other sites which encourage chirstianity. This is an Islamic site. Being a muslim, Alhamdullilah , its part of my belief that Isa AS was one of the prophets.He was n't crucified. we don't take him as God or there;s no need for us to experience Jesus.

I shall prove 1001 mistakes in Bible. But since the guidelines and most of all Islam , asks me to respect other religions, i refrain myselves.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2007 at 6:41pm

I paste it again, Pls read it carefully

What is Alleluya then?

 Take your Book of Testament , chapter 19 wherein we are informed that John the disciple of jesus saw a vision in which he heard the angels  in heavens singing Alleluya, Alleluya"

What is Alleluya then?

Is it Hip hip hooray !" Are the angels singing - hip hip hooray to God?

Every time when God creates a galaxy, do the angels say "hip hip hooray'? How absurd

Whats Alleluya then?

The last syllable "YA" is a vocative and an exclamatory particle in both Arabic and Hebrew meaning "OH!" In other words YA = OH {the vocative} and YA - {!} - EXCLAMATORY MARK

The semite both Arab and jew , begins with the exclamatory particle or exclamation mark. The westerners in his language ends with exclamations like Stop! Go! etc

 

Now let 's repeat this word of praise {Tasbih} as an Arab or a jew :

ALLE - LU - YA with be  YA-ALLE-LU beacause as explained above  YA is always at the begining in both Arabic and Hebrew

YA ALLELU would be YA-ALLAHU   Meaning " OH ALLAH" {You are the only being who deserves worship and praise} OH ALLAH !" {You are the only Being who deserves worship and Praise}

Hope u got it now. So whenever who say 'Alleluya" remember you are saying  Oh Allah.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote Jocko Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2007 at 4:18am

 

    If you wish to repeat posts then I suppose I will do a little repeating also.

   Here are a few Hebrew names in which the Jah or Yah of Hallelujah is NOT at the beginning as you state it always must be:

   "My God is Yah"  (AdoniJAH)

   "The Lord is Yah" (BealiAH) 

   "My Lord Yah is good" (Tob-adoniJAH)

   "My king is Yah"  (MalchiJAH)

   "My father is Yah"  (AbiJAH)

   "My brother is Yah" (AjiJAH)

   "My beloved is Yah"  (DodaVAHu)

   "My portion is Yah" (HilkiAH)

   "My festival or feast is Yah"  (HaggiAH)

   "Yah is a refuge"  (MahseiAH)

   "My lamp is Yah" (NeriAH)

   "The thunder of Yah" (RaamiAH)

   "Yah is strong" (HezekiAH)

    "Yah is mighty" (AmaziAH, AzariAH)

    "Yah is exalted"  (AthaliAH)

    "My splendour is Yah" (HodiAH)

    "Yah is loving kindness" (HasadiAH)

    "Yah is wonderful"  (PeliAH)

    "My good(ness) is Yah"  (TobiAH, TobiJAH)

    "Yah is righteousness"  (ZedekiAH)

     But more of interest to me at the moment is the question of where are the Hallelujahs in the New Testament?

     If I am not mistaken all the Hallelujahs in the New Testament are reserved for the last book of the Bible - Revelation. 

     For example in Revelation 19:5-10 we have the high praises of God and the Hallelujahs because of "the marriage of the Lamb".

    "And a voice came out from the throne saying, Praise our God, all His slaves and those who fear Him, the small and the great. (19:5)

    And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty thunders, saying, Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns. (v.6)

    Let us rejoice and exult, and let us give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. (v.7)

   And it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteuosnesses of the saints. (v.8)

  And he said to me, Write, Blessed are they who are called to the marriage dinner of teh Lamb. And he said to me, These are the true words of God" (v.9).

  There are a number interesting facts surrounding the Hallelujahs of this chapter.

  1.) In verse 5 it says "And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God ...".

     The previous verse 4 informs us that it is God Who sits upon the throne:

     "And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshipped God, who sits upon the throne, saying, Amen, Hallelujah!"

   Then we are told that a voice came out of the throne.  This may be the voice of Christ Himself as the Angel of God (7:2;8:3;10:1). As the Son of the Father He is also sent by God as an Angel, a Messenger. Here this may be the God man Christ speaking from the throne of God. For by saying "Praise our God" it proves that the Speaker is one of us.

I believe that this is the God-man Jesus Christ Who is God incarnate as a man. So He sits on  the throne of God and His voice comes out of the throne of God and yet He shares our human nature so He can also say "Praise our God" refering to His Father.

    He is anointed with the oil of exultant joy above His fellows (Hebrews 1:8,9) -

     'But of the Son, "Your throne, O God is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness, therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy above Your partners" '

    This is exactly what we may see in the voice coming out of the throne of God saying "Praise our God, all His slaves".

 Since the Lamb, the Redeemer is God man we men and women can be His partners. Yet as our Head He leads our praises to His Father. The Hallelujahs are led by the God incarnate into a man Jesus Christ.

 2.) The Hallelujahs are related to reighing of God the Almighty - "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns."

        The reigning of God is sitting of the Lamb upon the throne of God. And God is in the Lamb. There are not two thrones. There is only one throne - the throne of God and of the Lamb - "... a river of water of life, bright as crystal , proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb." (Rev. 22:1).

        It is certain that the Lamb stands for the Redeemer Jesus. And it is certain that God the Almighty is in the Lamb and that they sit upon one throne.  How do I know that God is in the Lamb? How do I know that the God man Jesus Christ is a man with God Almighty living in Him? Because of Revelation 21:23:

  "And the city has no need ofthe sun or of the moon that they shold shine in it, for the glory of God illumines it, and its lamp is the Lamb."

   The light of the eternal city is the glory of God. And the lamp from which the light shines out is the Lamb.

   The man Jesus is the Redeeming God man. He is the lamp. And out from Him shines the glory of God to illumine the New Jerusalem. So God is in the Lamb of God. And the Lamb with God Almighty as His Father is seated upon the throne of God and of the Lamb.

   This is the one who leads the Hallellujahs in the New Testament in Revelation 19.

  3.) The marriage of the Lamb is the maturing and arrivals of at least a significant portion of His people to match Him. He has transformed them into His image (2 Cor. 3:17,18) so that their righteous deeds - thier righteousnesses are their wedding garment to enjoy a special marriage dinner with the Redeemer.

      The Hallelujahs therefore are also related to Christ obtaining not only a people positionally justified and forgiven, but transformed in their living and characters to flow out righteous deeds - the righteousnesses of the saints. The Hallelujahs are related to Christ being dispensed INTO man to make man MATCH Christ as His counterpart and Bride.

 4.) The Hallelujahs are also related to the judgment of the Antichrist and his false prophet because the "beast" (Antichrist) and his false prophet amass an army to physically fight against the second coming of Christ. But Christ and His Bride and Wife overcome them:

   "These will make war with the Lamb and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and they who are with Him, the called and chosen and faithful, will also overcome them. " (Rev. 17:14)

  The Antichrist is the one who is instead of Christ, a destraction from Christ, and opposed to Christ - against Christ. And the Hallelujahs in chapter 19 are because God has judged all His enemies and those who fight against Christ the Lamb.

  The False Prophet is the untrue  prophet working on behalf of the Antichrist to distract men from Christ the Redeeming Lamb to something else. Both of these are eventually thrown by Christ into the lake of fire to burn forever along with the Devil:

  "And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where also the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. " (Rev.20:10).

  It is significant to see what and why the Hallelujahs ascend in the New Testament.  They are all solidly related to the Lamb of God the Redeemer. That is the Son of God, Jesus Christ Who died and rose for the justification, regeneration, sanctification, transformation and glorification of fallen sinners.

   Back to simple way to contact Christ - it is good also to shout "Hallelujah, Amen! Lord Jesus You are the Lamb of God. Hallelujah I am redeemed forever in the precious blood of the God-man - the Lamb of God Jesus."



Edited by Jocko
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Quote JasperStone Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2007 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by seekshidayath

I want the meaning of hebrew word 'Alleluya" and i did present its meaning there. If u think its wrong just prove it with its originality. I don't trust the translations u make in English.


What Hebrew or Greek authority are you referencing for you meaning? By the way, Alleluya in the New Testament is Greek, not Hebrew, though it is derived from Hebrew. Here are some actual language authorities on Alleluya:

Strong: Of hebrew origin (imperative of [H1984] and [H3050]); praise ye Jah!, an adoring exclamation.


Thayer Definition: praise ye the Lord, Hallelujah
Part of Speech: interjective imperative
of Hebrew origin from H1984 and H3050


Webster's Dictionary: Praise to Jehovah; a word used to denote pious joy and exultation, chiefly in hymns and anthems. The Greeks retained the word in their praise to Io; probably a corruption of Jah. The Romans retained the latter word in their Io triumphe.

Please tell me what lexicon contradicts this.

Originally posted by seekshidayath

Any ways answer my other two questions at the end of previous page. "What is YHWH and what is Elohim?"


YHWH is known by Hebrew scholars as the tetragrammaton, the divine title, often rendered as Jehovah. The King James translates this word as the Lord.

Elohim (or 'ĕlôhîym) is translated God. This word is used in Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

All creatures know God as Elohim. It is also easy for men to know God as Elohim, but not everyone knows Him as Jehovah, for Jehovah is always used when He is in covenant with man.

Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as the Almighty God; but by my name Jehovah I was not made known to them.

Here God is El, the shortened form of Elohim. I'm sure you know Him as God; do you know Him as Jehovah? Have you called on the name of Jehovah as Abraham and Moses did? "Oh Jehovah!"

Originally posted by seekshidayath

Jocko. this thread of yours "simple way to experience jesus" will be well fitted at other sites which encourage chirstianity. This is an Islamic site....


I thought this was the Interfaith Dialog section. Are you suggesting that only Islamic ideas are acceptable?


Edited by JasperStone
For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, we shall be saved in His life, having been reconciled. (Rom 5:10)
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Quote Jocko Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2007 at 6:50pm

 

 Seekshidayath, 

I shall prove 1001 mistakes in Bible. But since the guidelines and most of all Islam , asks me to respect other religions, i refrain myselves.

   Friend, I do respect your Islamic faith. There are many rooms in this forums in which many have written extensively on the benefits of the Islamic faith. I do not interfere with those discussions.

    Here though is a place where I can say something on behalf of the faith and experience of Jesus Christ.

    Now for the 1001 "mistakes" of the Bible, you must realize that you do not have great deal of credibility with me on this matter.  For example if the Bible plainly says that Christ died and rose again, and you come along and say that this is one of the "mistakes" of the Bible, don't expect me to trust you on your objectivity.

   To you the resurrection of Christ a "mistake" of the Bible because your Quran teaches something diametrically opposed to what the Bible teaches. So there is a real credibility problem with me trusting your so-called Bible "mistakes".

 

  

 



Edited by Jocko
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