IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: A Simple Way to Experience Christ

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Israfil

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Posted: 13 November 2007 at 12:34am

You Moslems only care about a God far away in an objective way

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Angel

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Posted: 13 November 2007 at 1:26am

Jocko, I can go out into nature and sit on the earth being emersed in the life all around me, stay there long enough I can experience God and the oneness of all things.

many people go out to mediate for days and be in silence and have experienced what they call experience of God.

Moses spent time in the desert alone, Muhammad spent time along and so did jesus, in fact all the great spiritual leaders spend time mediating/praying and be in slience that is the one common thing amongst all of them and each tell the story of experiencing God, being close to and being in oneness. It is also said that to be in silence, to be still then that is when things come to you, ideas, knowledge and wisdom, answers come through.

You saying that you need this and this in order to experience Christ or God, lets face it in the end it is God to be experience, but your view is too far away and complicated, I like to have simplicity and to be honest spending time alone, in silence and be still as that which nearly all spiritual teachers teach seems to be the go.

So lets all go and mediate

Edited by Angel

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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BMZ

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Posted: 13 November 2007 at 6:27am

Originally posted by Angel

Jocko, I can go out into nature and sit on the earth being emersed in the life all around me, stay there long enough I can experience God and the oneness of all things.

many people go out to mediate for days and be in silence and have experienced what they call experience of God.

So lets all go and mediate

Well-said, Angel

Next time, when I visit Melbourne, we will spend some time together in the desert, meditating. It is a beautiful experience that I have had in the deserts of Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

BMZ

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."

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BMZ

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Posted: 13 November 2007 at 6:38am

Originally posted by Jocko

All you need to do is confess that you do not believe that the New Testament is the speaking of Jesus Christ. So I still stand beside every example JasperStone presented.

Jocko, the New Testament does contain some statements from Jesus but the bulk is written by authors about what they had heard from others. Not every word in the New testament is from Jesus. The New Testament, naturally speaks about Jesus.

Just look at John's personal opening of his gospel. Even Matthew, Mark, Luke, James, Peter and Paul had never heard an iota of that.

Originally posted by Jocko

I think that I also wrote in a discussion many examples (if not an arbitrary ten) of Christ claiming that He was God incarnate. I mean the "direct quotes" which you seem to favor.

No, Jesus never claimed that he was God incarnate. The first term coined was trinity. In order to explain trinity, hypostatic union was coined. In order to explain that God incarnate was coined and the debates and disagreements continued to rage for 300-500 years. Please trust me on this. We are not discussing Muhammad here.

BMZ

Edited by BMZ

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."

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JasperStone

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Posted: 13 November 2007 at 4:23pm

Originally posted by minuteman

Sorry, Jasper (and Jocko). Jasper has not answered properly to the question of BMZ. The question was "Where did Jesus say that he was the Almighty God?"

The examples (the verses) Jasper has quoted are not the words of Jesus. Some people are talking and saying. But where is Jesus saying himself. Now where in those verses which are presented by Jasper to help out jocko Jesus is saying that he is God??

Please read all those verses and tell any one of them only in which Jesus was saying that he was God. Do not present any more or new verses yet. I will give you the chance for new verses. For the present time re-quote the verse in which Jesus was saying that he was God. I do not see such verse. And that was the requirement. Please fulfil.

Minuteman,

You need to read some of the quotes more carefully.

Because of this therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. (Matt 5:18)

This verse points out that Jesus called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. The Jews understood very well that He was saying that He was God, and that's why they wanted to kill Him.

But of the Son [God says], “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. (Heb 1:8)

In this verse God is addressing the Son and calling Him God. How much more direct can you get?

“Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel” (which is translated, God with us). (Matt 1:23)

This verse is a quotation of God in Isa 7:14. God gave instructions that the son should be called, "God with us."

I decided to point out these things to you, but I by no means accept your arbitrary requirement that I give only direct quotations of Jesus. The entire Bible is God's speaking.

All Scripture is God-breathed.... (2 Tim 3:16)

For no prophecy was ever borne by the will of man, but men spoke from God while being borne by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:21)

Moreover, the scriptures testify concerning Christ (and these are the direct words of Jesus).

You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that testify concerning Me. (John 5:39)

Edited by JasperStone

For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, we shall be saved in His life, having been reconciled. (Rom 5:10)

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Jocko

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Posted: 13 November 2007 at 4:49pm

Concerning meditating, I am all for it.

I am for however, for the excercise of our praying organ. Our spirit is a praying organ.

Calling on the name of Jesus - "O Lord Jesus. O Lord Jesus" is an excercise of the spirit to touch the Spirit of Christ. It is effective. It is simple. It is biblical.

I have tried to demonstrate in some of the more simple portions of this discussion, how we can excercise our human spirit to pray.

But let it be clearly understood, I am all for musing, meditating, and spending time with God.

I have no debate against spending time seeking God in the desert, in the kitchen, in traffic, or wherever.

May God richly bless all your times of meditating on His reality.

Edited by Jocko

I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!

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Angel

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Posted: 14 November 2007 at 12:21am

Originally posted by BMZ

Originally posted by Angel

Jocko, I can go out into nature and sit on the earth being emersed in the life all around me, stay there long enough I can experience God and the oneness of all things.

many people go out to mediate for days and be in silence and have experienced what they call experience of God.

So lets all go and mediate

Well-said, Angel

Next time, when I visit Melbourne, we will spend some time together in the desert, meditating. It is a beautiful experience that I have had in the deserts of Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

BMZ

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Israfil

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Posted: 15 November 2007 at 8:13am

Jocko you are making progress. At least you seem to acknowledge we are worshipping the same God.

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IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue

Topic: A Simple Way to Experience Christ
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Author	Message
Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 13 November 2007 at 12:34am
	You Moslems only care about a God far away in an objective way
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Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 13 November 2007 at 1:26am
	Jocko, I can go out into nature and sit on the earth being emersed in the life all around me, stay there long enough I can experience God and the oneness of all things. many people go out to mediate for days and be in silence and have experienced what they call experience of God. Moses spent time in the desert alone, Muhammad spent time along and so did jesus, in fact all the great spiritual leaders spend time mediating/praying and be in slience that is the one common thing amongst all of them and each tell the story of experiencing God, being close to and being in oneness. It is also said that to be in silence, to be still then that is when things come to you, ideas, knowledge and wisdom, answers come through. You saying that you need this and this in order to experience Christ or God, lets face it in the end it is God to be experience, but your view is too far away and complicated, I like to have simplicity and to be honest spending time alone, in silence and be still as that which nearly all spiritual teachers teach seems to be the go. So lets all go and mediate Edited by Angel
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
	IP Logged

BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 13 November 2007 at 6:27am
	*Originally posted by Angel* Jocko, I can go out into nature and sit on the earth being emersed in the life all around me, stay there long enough I can experience God and the oneness of all things. many people go out to mediate for days and be in silence and have experienced what they call experience of God. Moses spent time in the desert alone, Muhammad spent time along and so did jesus, in fact all the great spiritual leaders spend time mediating/praying and be in slience that is the one common thing amongst all of them and each tell the story of experiencing God, being close to and being in oneness. It is also said that to be in silence, to be still then that is when things come to you, ideas, knowledge and wisdom, answers come through. You saying that you need this and this in order to experience Christ or God, lets face it in the end it is God to be experience, but your view is too far away and complicated, I like to have simplicity and to be honest spending time alone, in silence and be still as that which nearly all spiritual teachers teach seems to be the go. So lets all go and mediate Well-said, Angel Next time, when I visit Melbourne, we will spend some time together in the desert, meditating. It is a beautiful experience that I have had in the deserts of Saudi Arabia and the UAE. BMZ
	Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 13 November 2007 at 6:38am
	*Originally posted by Jocko* All you need to do is confess that you do not believe that the New Testament is the speaking of Jesus Christ. So I still stand beside every example JasperStone presented. Jocko, the New Testament does contain some statements from Jesus but the bulk is written by authors about what they had heard from others. Not every word in the New testament is from Jesus. The New Testament, naturally speaks about Jesus. Just look at John's personal opening of his gospel. Even Matthew, Mark, Luke, James, Peter and Paul had never heard an iota of that. *Originally posted by Jocko* I think that I also wrote in a discussion many examples (if not an arbitrary ten) of Christ claiming that He was God incarnate. I mean the "direct quotes" which you seem to favor. No, Jesus never claimed that he was God incarnate. The first term coined was trinity. In order to explain trinity, hypostatic union was coined. In order to explain that God incarnate was coined and the debates and disagreements continued to rage for 300-500 years. Please trust me on this. We are not discussing Muhammad here. BMZ Edited by BMZ
	Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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JasperStone Groupie Joined: 03 October 2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Posted: 13 November 2007 at 4:23pm
	*Originally posted by minuteman* Sorry, Jasper (and Jocko). Jasper has not answered properly to the question of BMZ. The question was "Where did Jesus say that he was the Almighty God?" The examples (the verses) Jasper has quoted are not the words of Jesus. Some people are talking and saying. But where is Jesus saying himself. Now where in those verses which are presented by Jasper to help out jocko Jesus is saying that he is God?? Please read all those verses and tell any one of them only in which Jesus was saying that he was God. Do not present any more or new verses yet. I will give you the chance for new verses. For the present time re-quote the verse in which Jesus was saying that he was God. I do not see such verse. And that was the requirement. Please fulfil. Minuteman, You need to read some of the quotes more carefully. Because of this therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. (Matt 5:18) This verse points out that Jesus called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. The Jews understood very well that He was saying that He was God, and that's why they wanted to kill Him. But of the Son [God says], “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. (Heb 1:8) In this verse God is addressing the Son and calling Him God. How much more direct can you get? “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel” (which is translated, God with us). (Matt 1:23) This verse is a quotation of God in Isa 7:14. God gave instructions that the son should be called, "God with us." I decided to point out these things to you, but I by no means accept your arbitrary requirement that I give only direct quotations of Jesus. The entire Bible is God's speaking. All Scripture is God-breathed.... (2 Tim 3:16) For no prophecy was ever borne by the will of man, but men spoke from God while being borne by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:21) Moreover, the scriptures testify concerning Christ (and these are the direct words of Jesus). You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that testify concerning Me. (John 5:39) Edited by JasperStone
	For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, we shall be saved in His life, having been reconciled. (Rom 5:10)
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Jocko Senior Member Joined: 11 September 2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 179	Posted: 13 November 2007 at 4:49pm
	Concerning meditating, I am all for it. I am for however, for the excercise of our praying organ. Our spirit is a praying organ. Calling on the name of Jesus - "O Lord Jesus. O Lord Jesus" is an excercise of the spirit to touch the Spirit of Christ. It is effective. It is simple. It is biblical. I have tried to demonstrate in some of the more simple portions of this discussion, how we can excercise our human spirit to pray. But let it be clearly understood, I am all for musing, meditating, and spending time with God. I have no debate against spending time seeking God in the desert, in the kitchen, in traffic, or wherever. May God richly bless all your times of meditating on His reality. Edited by Jocko
	I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!
	IP Logged

Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 14 November 2007 at 12:21am
	*Originally posted by BMZ* *Originally posted by Angel* Jocko, I can go out into nature and sit on the earth being emersed in the life all around me, stay there long enough I can experience God and the oneness of all things. many people go out to mediate for days and be in silence and have experienced what they call experience of God. Moses spent time in the desert alone, Muhammad spent time along and so did jesus, in fact all the great spiritual leaders spend time mediating/praying and be in slience that is the one common thing amongst all of them and each tell the story of experiencing God, being close to and being in oneness. It is also said that to be in silence, to be still then that is when things come to you, ideas, knowledge and wisdom, answers come through. You saying that you need this and this in order to experience Christ or God, lets face it in the end it is God to be experience, but your view is too far away and complicated, I like to have simplicity and to be honest spending time alone, in silence and be still as that which nearly all spiritual teachers teach seems to be the go. So lets all go and mediate Well-said, Angel Next time, when I visit Melbourne, we will spend some time together in the desert, meditating. It is a beautiful experience that I have had in the deserts of Saudi Arabia and the UAE. BMZ
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
	IP Logged

Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 15 November 2007 at 8:13am
	Jocko you are making progress. At least you seem to acknowledge we are worshipping the same God.
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