IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: How would you justify this...?

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peacemaker
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Posted: 06 October 2007 at 10:34am

Originally posted by Anatolian

Just a quick observation I will just make this point. This law of Allah differs
quite strongly with previous mentions of marriage and divorce compared in
the OT and NT. Jewish and Christian teachings are much different then the
Islamic. Why is it that Allah, if He is the same God of the Judeo/Christian
believers, so different not just in this aspect but others as well? How is Islam
in this way a "continuence" of the previous two faiths? It's like God changed
his mind within 600 years after the death of Christ and decided to go a
different route...

Anatolian,

Please start one topic at a time, and stick to the topic. After the discussion has been concluded on that topic, start another topic. That is the standard way of learning.

Peace

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13

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on1on5

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Posts: 72

Posted: 07 October 2007 at 11:10am

Dear Anatolian,

I think the same that happens to you now, happened to me when I was at high school. As a person born to a Muslim community(like you as I guess) I certainly believed in god but it is not easy to face the questions about Islam and sheria

especially about the issues like polygamy, marriage of the prophet Mohammed (pbuh) with Aisha, (and many similar questions follow: Is men superior to women, is it justice to cut the hand of a thief etc etc etc?)

especially in the modern world and

especially in th e breeze of globalism that turns its face to the west, western values and positivism,

especially if there are many against Islam trying to find the "soft belly" of Islam.

At these times I recommend you to turn back to the Quran and listen to what Allah tells you. And then when you read the Mohammed's life again you can understand things better and pieces will fit to their places. Mohammed (pbuh) is suggested as a model to Muslims but I believe there are many things to be discovered by us in his life beyond his daily life, his marriages etc. Of course these are also important but his being alone in world of injustice and primitive thoughts as a prophet, his debate, his invitation are worth thinking on.

I hope your heart which is being bothered with questions and with a debate of reasoning, finds peace soon. Because belief is by mind and by heart at the same time as Allah says.

As salaam.

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islamispeace
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Posted: 07 October 2007 at 12:25pm

Originally posted by Anatolian

Just a quick observation I will just make this point. This law of Allah differs quite strongly with previous mentions of marriage and divorce compared in the OT and NT. Jewish and Christian teachings are much different then the Islamic. Why is it that Allah, if He is the same God of the Judeo/Christian believers, so different not just in this aspect but others as well? How is Islam in this way a "continuence" of the previous two faiths? It's like God changed his mind within 600 years after the death of Christ and decided to go a different route...

Have you not read the Old Testament? Do you not see the many differences between it and the New Testament? The most obvious one that comes to mind is the nature of God. Why is it that the New Testament God, if He is the same God of the Old Testament, so different in His nature? Why is it that the Old Testament God strictly prohibited certain types of food and meat, but the New Testament God does not? How is Christianity in this way a continuance of the message of God to humanity? Is this not an example of God changing His mind after 3,000 years on a different route?

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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seekshidayath
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Posted: 09 October 2007 at 6:50pm

Its quite clear that you are n't here with good intentions. Else your post would not have been so ROUGH.

Its not that God has changed the mind. The Almighty knows, the capacity of the minds of people like us.

For instance, if your child intends to be a medical doctor, Will u directly admit him into a medical college, without any schooling and competitive exams. You don't right? Its quite clear that as that child may not grasp it due the incapacity, he's made capable all these years to get admitted in a medical college.

Similarly, laws were introduced accordingly. Islam is no new religion. It was right from Adam AS. Though the other rules differed but the fundamental rule of ISlam was the same. All the Prophets preached to believe in one GOD. The other rules varied according to the time. By the time of Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him, human minds reached the level of sophistication. And till today Holy Quran applies even to the new generations.

Edited by seekshidayath

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

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Anatolian

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Posted: 09 October 2007 at 11:58pm

I doubt that the Qu'ran can be applied in modern times. You tend to
forget the Qu'ran is not only a religious guide but also every other aspect
of life concerning health, politics, human rights and the sort.

1) Would you like to see a women stoned to death for adultery?
2) A thief's hand being chopped off?
3) An ex Muslim professing his new faith being intimidated and killed for
this?
4) Those rejecting Islam who are either crucified, decapitated, hands and
feet cut off?
5) Getting caught drinking and being lashed at with a wip?

Just to name a few...

If you answered yes to any of the above you should apply for perminent
residency in either Saudia Arabia, Somalia, or Kandahar, Afghanistan (The
Taliban I presume have a major presence there).

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rami
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Posted: 10 October 2007 at 12:18am

Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

These are are all prescribed punishments from god that existed in scripture prior to Islam, certainly in Christianity and Judaism, therefor your reaction to them is nothing more than preconditioned emotions that you have chosen to uphold not a true indication of the nature of these crimes in God estimation since he is the truth not yourself.

The question shouldnt be about these punishments since you will be punished for doing these wrong things according to all three faiths now or in the hereafter but which of the three faiths is correct and how you will fair in the afterlife.

Your answer thus far seems to be my faith is in European society, wrong answer according to all religions.

As spock would say Live long and propser.

Edited by rami

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

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Angel

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Posted: 10 October 2007 at 1:46am

Originally posted by rami

As spoke would say Live long and propser.

You mean Spock ?

guess someone's not a trekki fan

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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rami
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Posted: 10 October 2007 at 6:04am

Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

Spock spoke that

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

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Topic: How would you justify this...?
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Author	Message
peacemaker Male Islam Moderator Group Joined: 29 December 2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 3056	Posted: 06 October 2007 at 10:34am
	*Originally posted by Anatolian* Just a quick observation I will just make this point. This law of Allah differs quite strongly with previous mentions of marriage and divorce compared in the OT and NT. Jewish and Christian teachings are much different then the Islamic. Why is it that Allah, if He is the same God of the Judeo/Christian believers, so different not just in this aspect but others as well? How is Islam in this way a "continuence" of the previous two faiths? It's like God changed his mind within 600 years after the death of Christ and decided to go a different route... Anatolian, Please start one topic at a time, and stick to the topic. After the discussion has been concluded on that topic, start another topic. That is the standard way of learning. Peace
	Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13
	IP Logged

on1on5 Groupie Joined: 06 January 2007 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 72	Posted: 07 October 2007 at 11:10am
	Dear Anatolian, I think the same that happens to you now, happened to me when I was at high school. As a person born to a Muslim community(like you as I guess) I certainly believed in god but it is not easy to face the questions about Islam and sheria especially about the issues like polygamy, marriage of the prophet Mohammed (pbuh) with Aisha, (and many similar questions follow: Is men superior to women, is it justice to cut the hand of a thief etc etc etc?) especially in the modern world and especially in th e breeze of globalism that turns its face to the west, western values and positivism, especially if there are many against Islam trying to find the "soft belly" of Islam. At these times I recommend you to turn back to the Quran and listen to what Allah tells you. And then when you read the Mohammed's life again you can understand things better and pieces will fit to their places. Mohammed (pbuh) is suggested as a model to Muslims but I believe there are many things to be discovered by us in his life beyond his daily life, his marriages etc. Of course these are also important but his being alone in world of injustice and primitive thoughts as a prophet, his debate, his invitation are worth thinking on. I hope your heart which is being bothered with questions and with a debate of reasoning, finds peace soon. Because belief is by mind and by heart at the same time as Allah says. As salaam.
	IP Logged

islamispeace Islam Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1417	Posted: 07 October 2007 at 12:25pm
	*Originally posted by Anatolian* Just a quick observation I will just make this point. This law of Allah differs quite strongly with previous mentions of marriage and divorce compared in the OT and NT. Jewish and Christian teachings are much different then the Islamic. Why is it that Allah, if He is the same God of the Judeo/Christian believers, so different not just in this aspect but others as well? How is Islam in this way a "continuence" of the previous two faiths? It's like God changed his mind within 600 years after the death of Christ and decided to go a different route... Have you not read the Old Testament? Do you not see the many differences between it and the New Testament? The most obvious one that comes to mind is the nature of God. Why is it that the New Testament God, if He is the same God of the Old Testament, so different in His nature? Why is it that the Old Testament God strictly prohibited certain types of food and meat, but the New Testament God does not? How is Christianity in this way a continuance of the message of God to humanity? Is this not an example of God changing His mind after 3,000 years on a different route?
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
	IP Logged

seekshidayath Female Islam Senior Member Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 3337	Posted: 09 October 2007 at 6:50pm
	*Originally posted by Anatolian* Just a quick observation I will just make this point. This law of Allah differs quite strongly with previous mentions of marriage and divorce compared in the OT and NT. Jewish and Christian teachings are much different then the Islamic. Why is it that Allah, if He is the same God of the Judeo/Christian believers, so different not just in this aspect but others as well? How is Islam in this way a "continuence" of the previous two faiths? It's like God changed his mind within 600 years after the death of Christ and decided to go a different route... Its quite clear that you are n't here with good intentions. Else your post would not have been so ROUGH. Its not that God has changed the mind. The Almighty knows, the capacity of the minds of people like us. For instance, if your child intends to be a medical doctor, Will u directly admit him into a medical college, without any schooling and competitive exams. You don't right? Its quite clear that as that child may not grasp it due the incapacity, he's made capable all these years to get admitted in a medical college. Similarly, laws were introduced accordingly. Islam is no new religion. It was right from Adam AS. Though the other rules differed but the fundamental rule of ISlam was the same. All the Prophets preached to believe in one GOD. The other rules varied according to the time. By the time of Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him, human minds reached the level of sophistication. And till today Holy Quran applies even to the new generations. Edited by seekshidayath
	Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
	IP Logged

Anatolian Groupie Joined: 12 September 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 67	Posted: 09 October 2007 at 11:58pm
	I doubt that the Qu'ran can be applied in modern times. You tend to forget the Qu'ran is not only a religious guide but also every other aspect of life concerning health, politics, human rights and the sort. 1) Would you like to see a women stoned to death for adultery? 2) A thief's hand being chopped off? 3) An ex Muslim professing his new faith being intimidated and killed for this? 4) Those rejecting Islam who are either crucified, decapitated, hands and feet cut off? 5) Getting caught drinking and being lashed at with a wip? Just to name a few... If you answered yes to any of the above you should apply for perminent residency in either Saudia Arabia, Somalia, or Kandahar, Afghanistan (The Taliban I presume have a major presence there).
	IP Logged

rami Male Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 01 March 2000 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2550	Posted: 10 October 2007 at 12:18am
	Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem These are are all prescribed punishments from god that existed in scripture prior to Islam, certainly in Christianity and Judaism, therefor your reaction to them is nothing more than preconditioned emotions that you have chosen to uphold not a true indication of the nature of these crimes in God estimation since he is the truth not yourself. The question shouldnt be about these punishments since you will be punished for doing these wrong things according to all three faiths now or in the hereafter but which of the three faiths is correct and how you will fair in the afterlife. Your answer thus far seems to be my faith is in European society, wrong answer according to all religions. As spock would say Live long and propser. Edited by rami
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
	IP Logged

Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 10 October 2007 at 1:46am
	*Originally posted by rami* As spoke would say Live long and propser. You mean Spock ? guess someone's not a trekki fan
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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rami Male Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 01 March 2000 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2550	Posted: 10 October 2007 at 6:04am
	Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem Spock spoke that
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
	IP Logged