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Message Icon Topic: Khamr and Sakar is alcahol the same? Post Reply Post New Topic
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2007 at 10:07am

 

 I know nothing about wine and brandy and beer etc. Would our respected BrotherMo let me know if there is any alcohol in wine??? I hope the wine may be having alcohol. What about beer??  Does that have alcohol?? Please indicate.

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2007 at 7:12pm

As'Salamu Alaikum,

Before starting up to the topic, lets pray Allah swt, to open our hearts to seek with the true knowledge and keep us away from the whisperings of satan

Dear brother if you are thru the Quran alone. then its not possible for you to grasp the subject of the verse.  One needs to know many details about the time and occasion on which a particular verse was revealed. For this people refer to tafsir - and one cannot understand tafsir if one is going to reject all hadith, as these documents are based a great deal on the authentic hadith. Tafsir is nothing but commentary.

Now coming up to the order of the verses revealed, lets have a look.There are three verses in the Quran connected to intoxicants.

It is narrated in Musnad Ahmad  that Abu maysarah said that Umar (ra) once said "O Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala give us a clear ruling regarding al-khamr!" Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala sent ayaat of Surah Baqarah, '2:219] They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit. And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say: What you can spare. Thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, that you may ponder'. Umar was then summoned and the ayah was recite to him.

Yet, he still said "O Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala give us a clear ruling regarding al-khamr!" Then second time this verse  in surah Nisa was revealed, [4:43]'O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say, nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath-- unless (you are) travelling on the road-- until you have washed yourselves; and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving'.

Then, when the prayer was called for, a person used to herald on behalf of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala's Messenger PBUH, "No drunk person should attend the prayer" Umar was summoned again and the ayah was recited to him, Yet, he still said "O Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala give us a clear ruling regarding al-khamr!" Then the Ayah that is in Surah Ma'idah was revealed, '5:91] The Shaitan only desires to cause enmity and hatred to spring in your midst by means of intoxicants and games of chance, and to keep you off from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. Will you then Resist?
On hearing this he said, "we did obstain, we did obstain" The ayaah in Surah Ma'idah is the one which forbids all forms of gambling and intoxicants. 

 In the first verse cited above, the word for "intoxicated" is sukara which is derived from the word "sugar" and means drunk or intoxicated. That verse doesn't mention the drink which makes one so. In the next verses cited, the word which is often translated as "wine" or "intoxicants" is al-khamr, which is related to the verb "to ferment." This word could be used to describe other intoxicants such as beer, although wine is the most common understanding of the word. Muslims interpret these verses in total to forbid any intoxicating substance -- whether it be wine, beer, gin, whiskey, or whatever. The result is the same, and the Qur'an outlines that it is the intoxication, which makes one forgetful of God and prayer, which is harmful. Over the years, the list of intoxicating substances has come to include more modern street drugs and the like.

I hope this may now stop u take any type of intoxicants be it before or after salah brother.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Khadija1021
 
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Quote Khadija1021 Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2007 at 10:16pm

Salam BrotherMo

I beg you to be careful when you read studies.  Yes, there have been some studies which show that wine...red wine...drank in small amounts...may have a beneficial affect on the heart.  HOWEVER, these studies do not show what drinking every day will do to the rest of your body.  Alcohol…from wine or other forms…takes its toll on the liver because it is the liver that must filter it out of our bodies.  Alcohol itself has not nutritional value yet when consumed, the liver must process the alcohol out of our system right away because alcohol is very harmful to the body.  This means that when a person consumes alcohol, the liver is put to work doing something other than what it was meant to do since alcohol is not a substance which is natural for our bodies to consume.  If it were, it would have some sort of nutritional value, yet it does not.  When you drink wine, it is not the alcohol that provides any nutritional value but rather the grapes in it. 

Did you know that there is only one organ in the human body which is not affected by alcohol consumption and that is the ear drum.  It erodes the lining off both your esophagus and your stomach, it ages the skin and kills brain cells which can leave a person with permanent brain damage known as dementia.  Why would anyone want to drink a substance that will combust if it comes into contact with fire?  I could go on and on about the negative affects of alcohol consumption but the point is, you should not rely upon reports which contain studies that are only done on one part of the body while ignoring the affects on other parts of the body.  When I see people doing this, it is a red flag to me that they are using the reports to justify what they desire to be do instead of seeking the whole truth of the matter at hand.

Do you know what is beneficial about drinking red wine?  What is beneficial is not the alcohol in the red wine but rather the affect of the resveratrol that is in it.  Resveratrol comes form the skin and seeds of red grapes when they are crushed.  Studies have shown that the same benefits from drinking red wine can be obtained by drinking red grape juice which is made from concord grapes.  The positive thing about drinking red grape juice instead of wine is that you are not risking committing a haram act and you keep from stressing out your liver by making it process something which is harmful to it.  What does it matter if your heart is strong if your liver is sick????  If your liver gets sick, your heart will also become sick because the liver is responsible for cleaning the blood before it goes back to the heart. 

I don’t take these facts to be something out of line with Islam but as true signs of Allah’s Wisdom and Mercy.  Modern science never contradicts Islam, it only reinforces what Allah has revealed to us already.  If only we were wise enough to simply accept that He knows what is best for us instead of questioning His authority.

BrotherMo, you can find out more information of the benefits of drinking red grape juice by simply doing a web search.  Just type in “red wine and heart disease” or you can go to the Mayo Clinic’s web page at the following link:

        http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-and-nutrition/AN00576

I pray to Allah that you will be guided to see the truth and to accept what is best for you.  Ameen!

Allah Hafiz

Sister Khadija



Edited by Khadija1021
Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2007 at 2:39pm
Good responses by seekshidayat and minuteman.  BrotherMo, I suggest you not try to rationalize this sinful behavior by trying to reinterpret the ayats which have been unanimously agreed upon as completely forbidding all intoxicants, whether it is wine, beer, cocaine, marijuana, morphine, opium etc.  Can you demonstrate that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or the Sahabah drank wine?  If not, how do you reconcile your recreational use of wine, when Allah's final Messenger did not do that?  Ponder very carefully on this subject.
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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brotherMo
 
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Quote brotherMo Replybullet Posted: 03 September 2007 at 5:53am

Assalam Alekom,

Bism ALLAh,

Dear friends,

Do you agree that we suppose to follow the prophet in the the things that we have to do and not to do from the Orders given to him by almighty GOD. and the prophet could not make something Haram unless if God ordered him that. That is why if you read in any Hadith that there is something haram and ALLAH swt did not mention in the Quran that means that this teaching is wrong.

Please people wake up...I do not interpret what God says more than a direct message. I say ALLAH and you say Man. which is better??

     Do Not Prohibit Lawful Things

[5:87]  O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.

[66:1]  O you prophet, why do you prohibit what GOD has made lawful for you, just to please your wives? GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.

I still ask the memberd who has an Arabic toungue to observe that AYAT of the Khamr and Sakar and then talk about the things that God orders us to do.

still NOTE:

I still don't drink Wine.

 

 

Brother Mohammed
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 08 September 2007 at 5:18am

Wa Alaikum Assalaam,

My apologies to everyone for not responding to this as I am usually busy with polemical evangelists on other sites.  Just saw your post today. I have formed a precis of your post in my mind and I would answer off that memory.   Let us understand the simple message of the verses by understanding in simple beautiful language of Qur'aan, what is being told:

In V2:219, we are being told that people asked the Prophet about Drinking and Gambling. It is understood that the people were not asking about drinking water, milk and other fruit juices. Thus the drinking here refers to consumption of intoxicating drinks such as wine, toddy, etc. They are told that there is more to lose than gain, for people. It is left to us to imagine what do we gain and what do we stand to lose more. Simply put, the result is more evil. there is nothing wonderful about the letter " wau" there and it is just a conjunction.  All it says is that drinking along with gambling is a serious hazard and a double killer.

In V4:43, we are told not to go for prayers when DRUNK (Wa antum sukaraa, which means when you are drunk) and to go when we are back in senses. And not to pray when we have had sex until we perform a ghusl.

Bro Minuteman is right in saying that this verse has not been abrogated. I agree with him. What about some Muslims who drink but still pray? They will be "finished", if this verse was treated as abrogated and would have been condemned forever by not having a chance to pray. Please note that this is my own conclusion.

You quoted V5:90 but you forgot to add 5:91 which has the real answer. After Allah tells us in 5:90 that intoxicating drinks, gambling and naming/consecrating idols and drawing lots were abominations, Allah tells us in V5:91 that all these are evil and keep us away from remembrance of Allah and prayers to Allah.

Then comes the big question: "Fa-hal antum muntahoon?", which means Allah is asking us,"Would you not abstain from them?" or "Would you then not desist or stay away from them?"

What will be our answer? Of course it will be, "Yes, Lord Almighty! I will refrain or keep myself away from these evils You have mentioned."

"Fa-hal antum muntahoon?" is the verse which was accepted by all the Muslims who were there with our dear Prophet and that was the day, all stopped drinking liquors, wines, intoxicants, etc. There is no direct order of prohibition. This is how intoxicants became forbidden.

For the life in the Hereafter, the word used is Sharaab, which does not mean intoxicating liquors. In the Indo-Pak Sub-Continent and Iran/Afghanistan, the word Sharaab is alcoholic drink in Persian, Hindi, Bangla and Urdu.

There is a huge difference between the words Sakar (sweet) and sukaraa (drunk).

Hope this helped. Salaams

BMZ



Edited by BMZ
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 08 September 2007 at 5:59am
Originally posted by brotherMo

Assalam Alekom,

Bism ALLAh,

Dear friends,

Do you agree that we suppose to follow the prophet in the the things that we have to do and not to do from the Orders given to him by almighty GOD. and the prophet could not make something Haram unless if God ordered him that. That is why if you read in any Hadith that there is something haram and ALLAH swt did not mention in the Quran that means that this teaching is wrong.

Please people wake up...I do not interpret what God says more than a direct message. I say ALLAH and you say Man. which is better??

     Do Not Prohibit Lawful Things

[5:87]  O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.

[66:1]  O you prophet, why do you prohibit what GOD has made lawful for you, just to please your wives? GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.

I still ask the memberd who has an Arabic toungue to observe that AYAT of the Khamr and Sakar and then talk about the things that God orders us to do.

still NOTE:

I still don't drink Wine.

Glad to know that you don't drink wine but then can I take your sentence to mean you are drinking whisky, gin, rum and brandy?  Of course, not.

V5:87 is addressed to all of us. For example all seafood has been declared Halaal. Some Muslims insist that the fish must have scales. They would not eat Mackerel or Pomfret as these do not have scales. God Almighty did not tell us about the scales. This is where people exceeded the limits and declared crab, lobster and prawns as Makrooh, which has nothing to do with Halaal or Haraam. Makrooh is simply what one does not like. You will not find the word Makrooh in Qur'aan regarding food.

V66:1 should be understood by reading from 66:1 to 66:3 and then one can understand that the Prophet forbade himself, not to others, something for a period or swore not to touch something. If you get angry or displeased with another and you forbid yourself from eating or touching some food for a while, there is no act of making it Haraam.

In order to understand this, you need to refer to ahaadith. Prophet said something confidential to one of his wives, who told it to another and prophet came to know. Perhaps it was over honey exclusively from one wife, I believe. So the Prophet decided not to touch it again. At this juncture the verse was revealed and Prophet was told that he did not have to do that. Prophet did not make honey Haraam for all of us.

Salaams

BMZ 



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lovesakeenah
 
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Quote lovesakeenah Replybullet Posted: 08 September 2007 at 7:57am

As-salaam alaykum

 

I ordinarily would not respond to questions like this because it seems you've got your mind made up irrespective of the explanations& clerifications you've been given&am so glad my dear sister&brothers are doing a fine job here.Am not giving you any facts as they've already done that.I'd just like to ask what your 'aim' of this topic really is(take it as a rhetorical question).Are you in a'knowledge battle' or are you trying to say Rasulllah(s.a.w) did not deliver the message Allah sent him?Or that the Revelation was tampered with?Or that we're blind followers& do not even know what we're doing?

 

if you "Still don't drink wine',then why bring up this controversy?Are you aware what damage  it could cause to people who're just coming up& have little understanding of Islam?

If you understand &believe in the Prophet(s.a.w),you'd desist from 'controversy as he said,"what is lawful is clear and what is unlawful is clear.Alcohol is 'unlawful'.The fact that some people would claim this otherwise to suit their argument for whatever purpose does not make it'lawful'.May Allah open your heart to accept the truth!

"I have conviction that Allah has power over everything.Verily!Allah's knowledge includes and encompasses everything".
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