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Zanjabil
 
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Quote Zanjabil Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2007 at 9:45am
Originally posted by Muslim mind

1. Why is it haram to talk to psychics and get advice from them? I don't mean people who practice blackmagic ect. I mean ones who are good in thought and intention; and are simply helping you with a problem one may have.

You mean the ones who practise white magic. But white magic too is haram. All magic is haram. Because Allah ta'ala is the Exalted One, Who created us and this universe. And we turn only to Him when we need help. Not to jinns or angels or white witches...

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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 31 August 2007 at 1:33am

[Angela=quote]Well, the Church funds shouldn't be used for gain...example mine uses the money for humanitarian aid and basic upkeep of the buildings and such.  We have no paid clergy... so no one is making money.[/quote]

 

Those who do proper and rightful work, it is no different than paying a doctor or a psychologist or a psychiatrist, and either of them can play around with your mind too.

As for how God works....I don't believe an all powerful being is going to talk to Madame Lulu about someone's cheating lover.

 

I agree, and in the true sense in what I have learnt it shouldnít be about that.                               

Besides, no psychic has ever been able to adequately predict anything before the fact.

 

To be honest, and this is where people donít know or misunderstand it. Itís not there to predict the future per se, the reason why it is vague is because every single one of us makes decisions that changes things and outcomes, if something is predicted and it doesnít come through it is because we (seeker) have done something to change the outcome. As I keep saying no one knows the future and that is because we are always making decisions, changing things nothing is at a stand still, If something comes thru, then its probably meant to happen.

 

I donít understand why people have to kick up a fuss when something negative is predicted and it doesnít happen, obviously something has happened to change it, and quite frankly you should be happy that it didnít happen instead of going Ďsuch and such said this was going to happen and it didnít so now such and such is a fraud???í I sometimes feel like saying this and this is why! It doesnít make the psychic reader of some ability a fraud or a scam artist. YES there are frauds and scam artist at there and they will eventually be found out.

 

 

Look, I donít necessarily disagree with you and Israfil, and I am quite up there with you on this but you guys talk about a certain group of psychics that scam and use common knowledge as israfil puts pre-existing beliefs of society. And they do fall prey on those who are valuable and/or going through a tough time. I donít like them and I am quite skeptical of them to, I watched an episode of sean and penn when they went out to test a few tarot readers and I was with the hosts those people that come on the show I was appalled at them! The way they used just the appearance of someone that is not on! And besides I would not trust them if my life depended on it, the guy that did the tantra yoga sex I felt sick and to be honest he is a clear example of a scam artist! He wasnít even knowledgeble in what he was doing anyway!

 

Those who have the ability and abuse it, shouldnít be in that kind of work. Those guys give genuine psychics a bad name.  

 

And another thing I wonít trust is those who dress up and have a table with a crystal ball on the table! Or the guys at a cirus or fun fair! I just want to run in the opposite direction, lol!


And even a broken clock is right twice a day

 

Sure, unless itís a 24 hour clock, hehe

 

Another thing people misunderstand is, Itís not there to tell you what to do in life. Its there as a guide.  

 

I also know for a fact that some police stations around the world consult with psychics and Allison Debouis the real one, works with the Distract Attorneyís office in her home city.  Now if Allison is a fake and a fraud I highly doubt that she would be working and consulting on cases because she would be found out to a fraud along time ago before Hollywood made her popular! I was listening to an interview with Allison once and she even commented on that even among psychics themselves, get skeptical with each other because every one has a different ability &/or similar ability but different.

 

As for Sylvia Browne, I donít know her so I cannot comment.

 

 

I think why it is not a good idea or that religion forbids it is because there are bad ones and damage can be done, and also because of bad spirits. I am my self struggling is that all cannot be good, that all spirits are not good so you do need to be careful. I think this is why it is discouraged in religion.

{{israfil}}You're assuming angel without knoing the facts. Abrahamic faiths in particular agree in a consensus that going to psychics are not good because they are performing the functions that God does.If an individual participates in such actions then he or she with their action is saying they are either impatient or does not believe in God unfolding their paths for you.

Very well maybe, Look if God or the angels can communicate with Prophets (because they were specially chosen), Prophets were merely human too, if the angels can communicate with them then they can choose to communicate with other humans, It is that simple.

Saying that psychics are not good (and I am not talking about the fraud/scam artists/or those who abuse)  because they are performing the functions that God does, is an error, first they are not performing the functions that God has, that would make them God I guess and they are not. Second, why do they have that ability whichever psychic ability they have? Third, It is not always about seeing the future. Fourth it is not about not trusting God or the path God has given you. Or that you are impatient or not. In fact you have to be patient. Some things donít happen as quick as you may want them to, some things may happen in months ahead or a year or 2.   

Imagine someone saying they can show you the future in a box and let's say for argument's sake that this is true. Would you take a peek at the box or would you not? A lot of people would and some wouldn't and what if you decided to look and you die 10 years from that moment. Your lifestyle could or could not drastically change from that moment.Either way, the inevitable would not change but I think people would change themselves if they knew aforehand. I basically believe that consulting fallible human beings is not a good way to help yourself. If people are suffering from depression or have personal issues they should consult a therapist. Yes all therapy does not help but these professionals can at least refer you to either a psychiatrist (if its a biological issue) or another therapist. But someone with clinical depression (or otherwise) should not consult a psychic.

I do agree with you here. I am not totally against you even thou I may seem to be and you to be against all I share.

Itís not a substitute. And yes you should consult a medical practitioner.

I personally think Muslim_mind consults psychics and want to discuss if anyone has consulted a psychic. I as a Muslim in return am saying that Psychics are considered haram what he/she does with this information is their choice.

True. And there is nothing wrong with discussing, it does call for an interesting discussion.

Just like religion and cults its easy to make people believe in the unseen the problem is whether people can discern what is real and what is not.

I agree, thatís why education is good. And partly why I show you (anybody) otherwise with what you bring across, which I as mentioned am not entirely against. I have read and learn and keep on doing so, that is why I can say what I say and be confident with it. (and it does not mean that I believe or do, I have some knowledge (I donít claim to know everything) and will share and show others if I choose, to thatís all).   

I know you and others arenít going to believe and thatís fine or at least scientific tests proves otherwise, and you know what I donít think controlled testing will show accuracies as you want it to be, its still going to be vague for the simple fact that situations changes, life changes all around us all the time. And that there are different abilities. What is for one person will not be the same for another. I will say again: I still stand by that science doesn't have all the answers and or that science has not catched up with some things because today humans can only go so far into scientific experiments, so who knows in the future.  

For me personally, the jury is still out. And quite frankly Iíve had enough.

And anyway, I think this was suppose to be on islam point of view

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 31 August 2007 at 5:07am

People who charge money for this sort of thing should be prosecuted. And if, and I do mean IF that thing were real, it would be a gift given for the sake of God and should not be used for gain.

If you weren't one of my most loved sisters, I will fly, in the face of all odds, to the United States and sue you for wasting your time in whatever job you have.

You are gifted, with the ability to put your thought into such precise simple words and with all that depth. Plus, you are just and fair. If you were on the international circuit, teaching n training people, you will brew a lot of healthy minds.

And, that is my Angela's Plan II.

(Women have to rise and act in these interesting times to heal Society)

Sasha Khanzadeh
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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 31 August 2007 at 5:55am

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Professor Israfilus, I have no idea what you are doing out there hiding behind that tinplate badge? If someone ever asks me if Israfil could write, I will go speechless and not utter a word.

Come over here and do what you have been made for.

Sasha Khanzadeh
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 31 August 2007 at 6:30am
Originally posted by Whisper

People who charge money for this sort of thing should be prosecuted. And if, and I do mean IF that thing were real, it would be a gift given for the sake of God and should not be used for gain.

If you weren't one of my most loved sisters, I will fly, in the face of all odds, to the United States and sue you for wasting your time in whatever job you have.

You are gifted, with the ability to put your thought into such precise simple words and with all that depth. Plus, you are just and fair. If you were on the international circuit, teaching n training people, you will brew a lot of healthy minds.

And, that is my Angela's Plan II.

(Women have to rise and act in these interesting times to heal Society)



As I am a student myself Brother Sasha, you would be suing me for my pursuit of Knowledge and bettering myself.

There was a day I wished to be a teacher.  Perhaps someday I will teach computers to disadvantaged young girls.  It would be a dream of mine.
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2007 at 1:13am

Angel your post are in bold:

Itís not there to predict the future per se, the reason why it is vague is because every single one of us makes decisions that changes things and outcomes, if something is predicted and it doesnít come through it is because we (seeker) have done something to change the outcome.

This whole paragraph is the reason why psychics are skeptical. Angel I don't think you are providing the best explanation for psychics (no offense). Can you explain to me how an individual who gets a psychic reading has the mental capacity to discern what path is being explained to them? What if this individual suffers from a mild case of dementia or suffers from clinical depression? What if this individual is confused? If psychic readings are supposed to be a guide and not, predictors of the future how can a "vague" reading enable someone understand what is being explained to them?

As I keep saying no one knows the future and that is because we are always making decisions, changing things nothing is at a stand still, If something comes thru, then its probably meant to happen.

Then there is no need to see a psychic since, in essence to what you've just stated that real psychics do not predict the future. How then are psychics are guides? I believe you tried to explain this in the following:

the reason why it is vague is because every single one of us makes decisions that changes things and outcomes, if something is predicted and it doesnít come through it is because we (seeker) have done something to change the outcome.

Any helpful information that another one is trying to give is NOT vague it is direct and straight forward. the reason psychic readings are vague is to keep the psychich for being held accountable if the reading doesn't go as it was explained therefore, there may be another excuse dropped on the gullible individual. True advice is not vague. A therapist does not say this or that MAY happen rather a therapist will outline the rirectives that the individual must do  in order to reach a certain point and must continue in repetition so that the individual may acheive some sort of gratification of course this is a rough example. A psychic, not being a therapist should not offer advice in a vague way because this can be misleading especially if the individual suffers from depression this in itself can alter an individual's mindset.

Let me ask you something Angel why don't psychics offer disclaimers to individuals who possibly might have mental disorders? Why don't they take that into consideration? I'm not talking about someone who is obviously mental deficient but someone who could possibly suffer from a mood disorder.

I also know for a fact that some police stations around the world consult with psychics

LOL. Most police investigations that involve psychics usually involve difficult leads (or none) and sometimes turn to self-proclaimed psychics but usually the leads are vague and some cases end up still on file as a mystery. There are a few cases where cops have solved caes with psychics but a lot of the times it is usually police work, not psychics that solve the case.

I still stand by that science doesn't have all the answers and or that science has not catched up with some things because today humans can only go so far into scientific experiments, so who knows in the future.  

Funny, you dont believe in the social sciences of religion yet you believe in the abilities of fallible humans who call themselves psychics. This isn't about science proving everything its about people taking advantage of gullible humans. When my neuroscience professor performed like a psychic in class and convinced people that he actually could read others that let's me know that there is a tactic behind this whole business. If psychic ability was so phenomenal why is it so common? I mean, I see Sikhs on the street performing "street readings" in L.A. for God's sake.

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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2007 at 7:31pm

Originally posted by Israfil

Funny, you dont believe in the social sciences of religion yet you believe in the abilities of fallible humans who call themselves psychics.

Israfil, I NEVER said that!!! read my post again.

and who said I don't believe in the social science of religion?, I may not believe in all of religion or religions.

This isn't about science proving everything its about people taking advantage of gullible humans.

{{shaking my head}}, read again.

Actually you make it out as if it has to be proven, you say this and that has be proven you talk about your Professor... and yet when i say some things have been, i'm shut off ??.

I'm not st**id israfil on the subject! And I am not claiming to know everything but you need to let up on me about the subject. I know what i mentioned is on the right path. And quite frankly I haven't entirely been against you! but i guess you never read that several times in my post otherwise i don't think you would have continued in a response and mention your Professor again (who by the way I might be with him on his test). And again, whatever I said doesn't reflect what i believe personally, for me personally the jury is out.

I thought with the knowledge i brought across that you know I know something about it, despite you not believing in it all!

lastly I know my writing is not perfect i'm not a writer like you.

This concludes my participation in this thread, well my last post was but i guess this one will be.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Sima786
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Quote Sima786 Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2013 at 12:24am
Brother
I have an important msg for you and it relates to a topic that u posted on
About Islam psychics,reincarnation etc
I have registered on this site purely because u posted the exact question that plays on my mind regularly
I wish to share my experience with u
Although u posted this in 2007 I hope u still are registered on this site as it was in 2007 u asked this question
I do not and will not mislead u in anyway Inshallah but please get in touch
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