Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Current Events
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Politics : Current Events
Message Icon Topic: Psychic contact with Angels Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 4 Next >>
Author Message
Muslim mind
 
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 11 August 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9
Quote Muslim mind Replybullet Topic: Psychic contact with Angels
    Posted: 27 August 2007 at 7:06am

Salam alikum brothers and sisters.

 

Can someone please help me with the subject heading?

 

I will number the questions and then Inshallah someone can get back to me and advise me on this.

 

1. Why is it haram to talk to psychics and get advice from them? I don't mean people who practice blackmagic ect. I mean ones who are good in thought and intention; and are simply helping you with a problem one may have.

 

2. Ok, often I have heard many muslims tell me psychics work with Jinns and this is how they get all the advice about people and their future. I have done some research up myself and spoke to some of them and asked them if this is true.

and they said no..that they actually work with God's angels for love, guidance and help. When I spoke to some muslims about this, they said no, this is not true..they are tricked into believing they are angels.

 

3. The other question is there are people out there who have been borne with this gift aome with Telepathy(Mind reading) Some with the ability to see in the future, sense ect. So if it is haram to see them; then why did Allah swt give them this gift?

 

4. The second part of the question is to do with past lives(Reincarnation)

I know In Islam that we have only one life here and then we die and are returned to Allah swt.

But often I have been hearing that we have many past lives, that we have lived before and this can be understood by the memory cell in the back of our heads. Which stores all our memories. 

There is a sufi group that often quotes a verse from the Quran "How can you deny Godwhen you were dead and God gave you life? Then God will cause you to die, and then revive you and then you will be returned to God." (2:28)

Some sufis claim this to mean Reincarnation....there was some sufi teacher called: Hazrat Talal-ad-Deen Rummi, who talked about how we go from Human form, to the soul, then to Angelhood and then beyond.

Personally I don't believe that.

5. In Christanity and the Jewish faith apparently Reincarnation was a solid belief.  In almost all references were deliberately deleted in 3rd Centur AD. (inregards to reincarnation.)  I am not sure if this is true.

 

I read up on one Muslim writer..saying that under hypnosis clients have talked about "Past live experiences." He said this is how Jinns whisper into the minds of man and make lies.

 

It is said we each have a spirt guide that guides us all our lives, which is a angel.

So how do we know that contact with the angels is not part of the AL-Ghayb? (the unseen.)

 

I would appricate any advice on this  please.

 

Many thanks.

 

Imran.

 

IP IP Logged
Israfil
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3984
Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 27 August 2007 at 8:47am

I'll go down the list

1) Because there is no proof of telepathy in the first place as far as science as concerned. Most psychics operate from information volunteered beforehand and then, with that information unbeknowesth to the individual, will use that information to give off readings. My neuroscience professor demonstrated to us how this is done. Regardless whether the intention is good or bad one is still being deceived without the influence of angels or jinn.

2) This is false. Even is telepathy even existed it would be an innate faculty given by God and not necessarily something that is received. Angels, according to Islamic theology converse with prophets not average humans. Psychics are not prophets therefore, it is not assumed that they are guided (in the psychic sense) by angels.

3) From the way you worded your question it seems as if you believe psychics are real. Much like the proof of the existence of God, there is no proof that telepathy exist at least clinically. There have been studies where supposed psychics were tested but most have proven to be either very vague in their readings or fake. Ever heard of the $1,00,0000 challenge? James Randi challenge the famous Sylvia Browne and other psychics under scientific study to prove their abilities. So far no psychics have stepped up.

4) This is mainly a dialetical thing where Sufis and other schools of thought  may differ. If one believes in reincarnation then all that is in the Qur'an is wrong. First off, if reincarnation exist then hell and heaven are not infinite destinations since, the former self can change bodies. Since the soul is an unchangable form, reincarnation can also be misinterpreted as the soul as being infinite (See Al-Ghazali). The soul in this instance would not undergo any type of chage only matter which the soul is encapsulated in. With that being said reincarnation is not believed in.

5) This seems like a repeated question. The main thing you should be aware of is that Islam does not condone psychic readings or psychic beliefs. To do such is to lose faith in the path Allah has set for you. To consult a psychic is like an impatient act as if you cannot live life and let the path unfold for you. I know people who consult psychics and card readers who claim they work however one thing people don't realize (which is something all psychology/philosophy majors know-or at least grqaduate students) is that psychics operate on the pre-existing beliefs of society.

Psychics obviously cannot fortell a future they cannot prove so they make vague statements so as to make the individual believe that the psychic is predicting elements that may change their life or lead them to certain things in life. A psychic will not predict someones death and even if they do it is coincidental. My advice to you is to stay away from them because they are deceivers. Christians call them devil worshippers but I call them clever scam artists. when I saw my professor mimic a psychic and people in my GRADUATE class believing my professor I was amazed how even so-called intellectual and smart people can be duped.

IP IP Logged
Muslim mind
 
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 11 August 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9
Quote Muslim mind Replybullet Posted: 27 August 2007 at 9:27am

Thank you for your reply.

 

I agree with most of what you say.

But I didn't understand what you meant by Angels decieving men...why would angels decieve men?

I thought it was Jinns that done that?

 

Science genrally in this day and age doesent like to believe anything that dosent match up to its own ideology; especially when it comes to Psychics; and so on.

 

But its true that most psychics do operate on the Pre- existing beliefs of society; in the sense that before their was religion and religious texts- I think. So the claim is Psychics have been around well before Religion came along.

 

Telepathy does exist, I am not sure how the science of it works. if i get some more Info on it, Inshallah I will put it up.

 

You say most Psychics are fake..its true there are many many scammers about. But there are genuine ones about..the scammers give them a bad name.

 

For example, I persoanlly know of people who have had readings with one psychic..and they have not said anything or given one thing away about themselves; yet the psychic gave them pinpoint accuracy about their lives; and what their problems were.

 

I spoke to these people afterwards; and they were well impressed. Even down to their careers paths and what their hobbies were; what problems they had; did have and are still having ect. 

 

My point is that there are some good ones out there, who are genuine.

Ps...Brother I noticed you put "Graduate" in caps, was this to lay emphasis on university students somehow being super integellent?

 

I also know of psychics personally; who have helped people with real crippling problems..people I have spoken to and have seen the diffrence and they didnt use NLP.

I know of people who have had horrible things happen to them; they have tried modern psychology, and not only has it been  ineffective (maybe not for all people) but they have wasted Thousands of pounds on so called experts who have done nothing but make their bank accounts bigger.)

Peace.

 

IP IP Logged
Israfil
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3984
Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 27 August 2007 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by Muslim mind

Thank you for your reply.

You're welcome.

I agree with most of what you say.

Ok.

But I didn't understand what you meant by Angels decieving men...why would angels decieve men?

Where did you see where I said this?

I thought it was Jinns that done that?

Again where did I say the above.....

Science genrally in this day and age doesent like to believe anything that dosent match up to its own ideology; especially when it comes to Psychics; and so on.

Wrong. There is no "ideology" so to speak in science because science  is a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method as well as the organized body of knowledge gained through such research.

But its true that most psychics do operate on the Pre- existing beliefs of society; in the sense that before their was religion and religious texts- I think. So the claim is Psychics have been around well before Religion came along.

You misunderstood me. When I said psychics operate on pre-existing beliefs of society I'm talking about common things we all are aware of.

Telepathy does exist, I am not sure how the science of it works. if i get some more Info on it, Inshallah I will put it up.

As far as I'm concerned telepathy as far as science, does not exist. there have been been some small research studies in a classical lab to prove whether the mind can transfer thought into physical reaction however these findings have not been widely accepted by the scientific community. Evevn if it does for argument's sake, the action of telepathy is along the lines of physics not psychic ability and in addition, it would be shown that all humans not just some, possess this ability.

You say most Psychics are fake..its true there are many many scammers about. But there are genuine ones about..the scammers give them a bad name.

Sounds like you have had personal experience with a psychic. Like I said ALL psychics to me are fake. If you can prove psychic abilities are real then you can prove that God exist as a corporeal being.

 

For example, I persoanlly know of people who have had readings with one psychic..and they have not said anything or given one thing away about themselves; yet the psychic gave them pinpoint accuracy about their lives; and what their problems were.

Again, its easy to accurate with someone's life if you have a conversation with them aforehand. This is a common tactic psychics do to gain some information on the participant.

 

I spoke to these people afterwards; and they were well impressed. Even down to their careers paths and what their hobbies were; what problems they had; did have and are still having ect. 

Ok.

 

My point is that there are some good ones out there, who are genuine.

Ok....

Ps...Brother I noticed you put "Graduate" in caps, was this to lay emphasis on university students somehow being super integellent?

No. I capitalized the "G" because its a noun and I'm describing something.

 

 

I also know of psychics personally; who have helped people with real crippling problems..people I have spoken to and have seen the diffrence and they didnt use NLP.

Sure and cult leaders have helped people with depression and look what happened?

I know of people who have had horrible things happen to them; they have tried modern psychology, and not only has it been  ineffective (maybe not for all people) but they have wasted Thousands of pounds on so called experts who have done nothing but make their bank accounts bigger.)

Maybe their issues is not as simple as going to a psychologist. If their issues are more biological maybe they need medication. Who knows? but consulting someone who predicts things is not necessarily Muslim like behavior.

Peace.

 

IP IP Logged
Muslim mind
 
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 11 August 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9
Quote Muslim mind Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2007 at 1:48am

sorwy I just reread the bit on and jinns. My mistake. Thats my dyslexia.

 

Fair enuff. we al have our views and experiences.

 

By the way..just for any other brothers and sisters..if you have had any psychic experiences or spoken to any genuine ones. It would be lovely to hear from you.

 

Feel free to Private message me.

 

Peace.

IP IP Logged
Angel
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2001
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6642
Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2007 at 3:06am

Originally posted by Israfil

Like I said ALL psychics to me are fake. If you can prove psychic abilities are real then you can prove that God exist as a corporeal being.

I know you haven't had good experience but what do you call your intuition or gut feeling? that is a psychic abitilty and everyone has that. Even picking up others energy vibrations.

I have futuristic dreams that come true, mind you i don't remember it until that moment has arrived, that too is a psychic ability. And in all honesty i probably could get trained to developed that much furthur.

I also have this certain way of sensing things, its hard to explain.

 

So for me your proposal is unrealistic (i am not sure if that is the right word) but for those who believe God is everywhere and in us, then i guess it is a little bit unrealistic. 

I still stand by that science doesn't have all the answers and or that science has not catched up with some things because today humans can only go so far into scientific experiments, so who knows in the future. 

Yes, there are some fake and irresponsible psychics (so called ones) and i wouldn't class them as psychics anyway. I really get put off by those who dress up and i just want to run in the opposite direction.

I think why it is not a good idea or that religion forbids it is because there are bad ones and damage can be done, and also because of bad spirits. I am my self struggling is that all cannot be good, that all spirits are not good so you do need to be careful. I think this is why it is discouraged in religion.



Edited by Angel
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
IP IP Logged
Israfil
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3984
Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2007 at 9:02am

Angel my response to you are in red

I know you haven't had good experience but what do you call your intuition or gut feeling? that is a psychic abitilty and everyone has that. Even picking up others energy vibrations.

Intuition has nothing to do with psychic abilities but rather, instictual thought on a particular situation. I would say having a "gut feeling" goes along the lines of activating the frontal lobe of the brain (and perhaps other areas) where this lobe is the center of the organization of thought processes. Perhaps gut feelings come from the instinctual feeling through chemical reaction from this area. Again, this could scientifically explained if I used an fMRI to study "gut feelings." Dogs for instance have reactions based on vibrations (not feeling them persay but sound vibrations) and react accordingly but humans do not have this keen sense.

Sometimes "gut feelings" are more of like guessing because we may innately feel strongly about something and could be wrong. My experiences has nothing to do with why I disagree with psychics. I disagree with them because from a religious perspective by me participating I'm saying in this act that I don't trust God so I will consult a human being who will predict (or at least give me hints on) my future for me. To me going to psychics is the lazy way to find answers. People consult horoscopes and astrologists but all of these individuals practice psuedopsychology (fake psychology).

I have futuristic dreams that come true, mind you i don't remember it until that moment has arrived, that too is a psychic ability. And in all honesty i probably could get trained to developed that much furthur.

Futuristic dreams has nothing to do with psychic ability and the fact that you have "futuristic dreams" can be explained. I would say your subconscious (not your conscious mind) would act upon  those so-called futuristic dreams and actualize the reality for you thus making it coincidental. I can tell you that humans don't remember every particular aspect of their dream just the things that stand out so whether or not you experienced something that you dreamt may not be entirely accurate but resemble something you dreamt about, that too can happen as well.

I also have this certain way of sensing things, its hard to explain.

Another intuituion?

So for me your proposal is unrealistic (i am not sure if that is the right word) but for those who believe God is everywhere and in us, then i guess it is a little bit unrealistic. 

What is my proposal? Have proposed anything? If anything I said going to a psychic is an illogical choice. I'm willing to say if you go to a psychich maybe once or twice out of curiousity I would accept that but going to a psychic out of pure belief then that is just "crazy." I told Muslim_mind that psychics are not special and because they possess this ability then all humans should possess this ability. The fact that there are fake psychics is scary because gullible humans like Muslim_mind can be taken advantage of. I also made a reference to my neuriscience professor who imitated a psychic and actually predicted accurate things about his graduate students! he basically told us how he does it.

He also explained that when consulting a psychich before the reading the psychic goes into casual conversation with the individual (of course this is not the only avenue to obtain information but the most likely) then, from whatever information is gathered can tactically, make predictions off the information that is provided. Even through the reading the psychic will ask questions to pick the gullible persons brain note the following dialogue:

 Psychic: "Who is mary and who is this cat with her?" 

 Gullible:  Mary is my next door neighbor and she has a cat!

Psychic: No I'm seeing someone named Mary and she is telling me about some money but a cat is with her. Do you have anyone in your family that is named Mary like a loved one that passed away? Did someone recently pass away or passed away within the last two years?

Gullible: Oh yea I had an aunt that passed away and her middle name is Marilou (MAREE-LOU) and she did have pets.

Psychic: Yes, she is telling me about some money you have coming through the family or some other source.

Gullible: Oh really???

Psychic: Yes.

My point here is to show how psychics even ask leading questions to make us answer inaccurate information...LOL even us police officers and District Attorneys do such things. Its a tactic that makes people admit to faults. I particularly don't do it but my T.O. (training officer) I've seen done its funny how even innocent people will admit to doing something wrong.

I still stand by that science doesn't have all the answers and or that science has not catched up with some things because today humans can only go so far into scientific experiments, so who knows in the future. 

That is my point no human knows the future and consulting a human who is as fallible as the next one is crazy. That is like a surgeon asking a psychic's advice on which part of the body he or she should operate on?

Yes, there are some fake and irresponsible psychics (so called ones) and i wouldn't class them as psychics anyway. I really get put off by those who dress up and i just want to run in the opposite direction.

I'm talking about famous psychics not crazy ones. Look at Sylvia Browne who have been on numerous shows and have made numerous books about predicting futures and stuff and have worked with the police. She has been shown to be a fraud and even James Randi challenged her and has her on video on Larry King Live admitting to accepting this challenge. If she is so confident in her ability why not perform under scientific study? According to James Randi's website it has been 5 years since Sylvia Browne accepted his challenge. By the way this is an individual who says she has seen heaven, seen God and angels and has a spiritual guide. She also says Satan is not evil but misunderstood. Basically she is a gnostic...

 

I think why it is not a good idea or that religion forbids it is because there are bad ones and damage can be done, and also because of bad spirits. I am my self struggling is that all cannot be good, that all spirits are not good so you do need to be careful. I think this is why it is discouraged in religion.

You're assuming angel without knoing the facts. Abrahamic faiths in particular agree in a consensus that going to psychics are not good because they are performing the functions that God does. If an individual participates in such actions then he or she with their action is saying they are either impatient or does not believe in God unfolding their paths for you. Imagine someone saying they can show you the future in a box and let's say for argument's sake that this is true. Would you take a peek at the box or would you not? A lot of people would and some wouldn't and what if you decided to look and you die 10 years from that moment. Your lifestyle could or could not drastically change from that moment.

Either way, the inevitable would not change but I think people would change themselves if they knew aforehand. I basically believe that consulting fallible human beings is not a good way to help yourself. If people are suffering from depression or have personal issues they should consult a therapist. Yes all therapy does not help but these professionals can at least refer you to either a psychiatrist (if its a biological issue) or another therapist. But someone with clinical depression (or otherwise) should not consult a psychic.

I personally think Muslim_mind consults psychics and want to discuss if anyone has consulted a psychic. I as a Muslim in return am saying that Psychics are considered haram what he/she does with this information is their choice.



Edited by Israfil
IP IP Logged
herjihad
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2473
Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2007 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Israfil

I'll go down the list

1) Because there is no proof of telepathy in the first place as far as science as concerned. Most psychics operate from information volunteered beforehand and then, with that information unbeknowesth to the individual, will use that information to give off readings. My neuroscience professor demonstrated to us how this is done. Regardless whether the intention is good or bad one is still being deceived without the influence of angels or jinn.

2) This is false. Even is telepathy even existed it would be an innate faculty given by God and not necessarily something that is received. Angels, according to Islamic theology converse with prophets not average humans. Psychics are not prophets therefore, it is not assumed that they are guided (in the psychic sense) by angels.

3) From the way you worded your question it seems as if you believe psychics are real. Much like the proof of the existence of God, there is no proof that telepathy exist at least clinically. There have been studies where supposed psychics were tested but most have proven to be either very vague in their readings or fake. Ever heard of the $1,00,0000 challenge? James Randi challenge the famous Sylvia Browne and other psychics under scientific study to prove their abilities. So far no psychics have stepped up.

4) This is mainly a dialetical thing where Sufis and other schools of thought  may differ. If one believes in reincarnation then all that is in the Qur'an is wrong. First off, if reincarnation exist then hell and heaven are not infinite destinations since, the former self can change bodies. Since the soul is an unchangable form, reincarnation can also be misinterpreted as the soul as being infinite (See Al-Ghazali). The soul in this instance would not undergo any type of chage only matter which the soul is encapsulated in. With that being said reincarnation is not believed in.

5) This seems like a repeated question. The main thing you should be aware of is that Islam does not condone psychic readings or psychic beliefs. To do such is to lose faith in the path Allah has set for you. To consult a psychic is like an impatient act as if you cannot live life and let the path unfold for you. I know people who consult psychics and card readers who claim they work however one thing people don't realize (which is something all psychology/philosophy majors know-or at least grqaduate students) is that psychics operate on the pre-existing beliefs of society.

Psychics obviously cannot fortell a future they cannot prove so they make vague statements so as to make the individual believe that the psychic is predicting elements that may change their life or lead them to certain things in life. A psychic will not predict someones death and even if they do it is coincidental. My advice to you is to stay away from them because they are deceivers. Christians call them devil worshippers but I call them clever scam artists. when I saw my professor mimic a psychic and people in my GRADUATE class believing my professor I was amazed how even so-called intellectual and smart people can be duped.

Salaamu Alaykum Muslimind,

The only thing I would emphasize from Brother Israfil's excellent Islaamic answer to you is to say that it is Jinn that are communicating with these psychics, if there is any supernatural communication at all, and it is not just skilled scamming.

Jinns have knowledge of our pasts and therefore can predict things based on that.

Salaams

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
IP IP Logged
Page  of 4 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com