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khairullah
 
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Quote khairullah Replybullet Topic: Does God beget ?
    Posted: 18 August 2007 at 2:03am

The Begotten Son of God

 

By Sami Zaatari

 

One rather strange and insulting verse we find in the Bible is that of John 3:16, which reads:

 

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 

 

So as you can see, the verse says that God gave his begotten son, this is indeed strange, since begetting children is not an act done by God, because the word beget/begotten infers that this came about through sexual intercourse.

 

The word begotten that is used here is called monogenes {mon-og-en-ace'} in the Greek language. The basic definition of this word refers to daughters and sons in relation to their parents through sexual intercourse!

 

So basically when John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten son of God it actually means that God had sex and hence Jesus was begotten!

 

Lest a Christian claim I am twisting things, let us see the word 'monogenes' used again in the Bible, notice the context this time:

 

Hbr 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

 

So notice the word begotten (monogenes) is used here referring to Abraham's son! So therefore as you can see, in context the word monogenes refers to a son of a father which is created through the sexual act between a man and a women. So there is no escaping the fact that word monogenes which means begotten refers to a son or daughter which is produced through sexual intercourse, as you saw in Hebrews 11:17 it says that Abraham gave his only BEGOTTEN son referring to Ishmael, hence this word begotten refers to children produced through a sexual act. So my question is this, does the God of John 3:16 have sex?!

 

This verse is an insult to God, and Christians must either get rid of this blasphemous verse, or they should change the wording, and Christians should have no problem in changing the wording since many words and whole chapters in the Bible have been altered, changed, or even deleted! So Christians should have no problem in making a simple word change, this will be something normal for the Bible!

 

And I end this article with a lovely verse from the Quran which refutes such insults by the Bible:

 

YUSUFALI: He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;112.003

 

And indeed Allah Knows Best!

1:"The TRUTH stands out clear from error"2:256

2:"When comes the Help of God, and Victory And thou dost see the people enter God's Religion (ISLAM) in crowds".110:01-2.
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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 27 August 2007 at 1:20pm

So as you can see, the verse says that God gave his begotten son, this is indeed strange, since begetting children is not an act done by God, because the word beget/begotten infers that this came about through sexual intercourse.

 

To us it looks like sexual intercorse. What does the word "beget" mean? You have to also use the word in context. Jesus was begotten because he was born INTO this world.

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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2007 at 1:08pm

Buddyman...

Being begotten doesn't necessarily mean "born into" it does have reference to sexual intercourse the following will help you

beget

One entry found for beget. < name=entry =/cgi-bin/dictionary method=post>
< = value=beget name=hdwd>< = value=begotten name=listword>< = value=Dictionary name=book>
Main Entry: be·get
Pronunciation: bi-'get, bE-
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): be·got /-'gät /; also be·gat /-'gat/; be·got·ten /-'gä-t&n /; or -got; -get·ting
Etymology: Middle English begeten, alteration of beyeten, from Old English bigietan -- more at GET
1 : to procreate as the father : SIRE
2 : to produce especially as an effect or outgrowth
- be·get·ter noun
 
You'll notice in bold procreate in this term let's see what procreate means (so you have no future doubts):

procreate

One entry found for procreate. < name=entry =/cgi-bin/dictionary method=post>
< = value=procreate name=hdwd>< = value=procreate name=listword>< = value=Dictionary name=book>
Main Entry: pro·cre·ate
Pronunciation: -"At
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -at·ed; -at·ing
Etymology: Latin procreatus, past participle of procreare, from pro- forth + creare to create -- more at PRO-, CREATE
transitive verb : to beget or bring forth (offspring) : PROPAGATE
intransitive verb : to beget or bring forth offspring : REPRODUCE
- pro·cre·ation /"prO-krE-'A-sh&n/ noun
- pro·cre·ative /'prO-krE-"A-tiv/ adjective
- pro·cre·ator /-"A-t&r/ noun
 
Any questions?
 
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 08 September 2007 at 1:00am
Originally posted by khairullah

The Begotten Son of God

 

By Sami Zaatari

 

One rather strange and insulting verse we find in the Bible is that of John 3:16, which reads:

 

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 

 

So as you can see, the verse says that God gave his begotten son, this is indeed strange, since begetting children is not an act done by God, because the word beget/begotten infers that this came about through sexual intercourse.

 

The word begotten that is used here is called monogenes {mon-og-en-ace'} in the Greek language. The basic definition of this word refers to daughters and sons in relation to their parents through sexual intercourse!

 

So basically when John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten son of God it actually means that God had sex and hence Jesus was begotten!

 

Lest a Christian claim I am twisting things, let us see the word 'monogenes' used again in the Bible, notice the context this time:

 

Hbr 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

 

So notice the word begotten (monogenes) is used here referring to Abraham's son! So therefore as you can see, in context the word monogenes refers to a son of a father which is created through the sexual act between a man and a women. So there is no escaping the fact that word monogenes which means begotten refers to a son or daughter which is produced through sexual intercourse, as you saw in Hebrews 11:17 it says that Abraham gave his only BEGOTTEN son referring to Ishmael, hence this word begotten refers to children produced through a sexual act. So my question is this, does the God of John 3:16 have sex?!

 

This verse is an insult to God, and Christians must either get rid of this blasphemous verse, or they should change the wording, and Christians should have no problem in changing the wording since many words and whole chapters in the Bible have been altered, changed, or even deleted! So Christians should have no problem in making a simple word change, this will be something normal for the Bible!

 

And I end this article with a lovely verse from the Quran which refutes such insults by the Bible:

 

YUSUFALI: He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;112.003

 

And indeed Allah Knows Best!

On a lighter note, I would say that John is confirming that he was not the real son of God. If God really had a son, His own son then John would have said that God gave his own and only son. 

Now who really begot or begat that son miraculously? It was in fact Mary who had actually begotten Jesus by the Command of God, for the miracle was shown by God.



Edited by BMZ
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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 10 September 2007 at 9:57am
Originally posted by BMZ

Originally posted by khairullah

The Begotten Son of God

 

By Sami Zaatari

 

One rather strange and insulting verse we find in the Bible is that of John 3:16, which reads:

 

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 

 

So as you can see, the verse says that God gave his begotten son, this is indeed strange, since begetting children is not an act done by God, because the word beget/begotten infers that this came about through sexual intercourse.

 

The word begotten that is used here is called monogenes {mon-og-en-ace'} in the Greek language. The basic definition of this word refers to daughters and sons in relation to their parents through sexual intercourse!

 

So basically when John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten son of God it actually means that God had sex and hence Jesus was begotten!

 

Lest a Christian claim I am twisting things, let us see the word 'monogenes' used again in the Bible, notice the context this time:

 

Hbr 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

 

So notice the word begotten (monogenes) is used here referring to Abraham's son! So therefore as you can see, in context the word monogenes refers to a son of a father which is created through the sexual act between a man and a women. So there is no escaping the fact that word monogenes which means begotten refers to a son or daughter which is produced through sexual intercourse, as you saw in Hebrews 11:17 it says that Abraham gave his only BEGOTTEN son referring to Ishmael, hence this word begotten refers to children produced through a sexual act. So my question is this, does the God of John 3:16 have sex?!

 

This verse is an insult to God, and Christians must either get rid of this blasphemous verse, or they should change the wording, and Christians should have no problem in changing the wording since many words and whole chapters in the Bible have been altered, changed, or even deleted! So Christians should have no problem in making a simple word change, this will be something normal for the Bible!

 

And I end this article with a lovely verse from the Quran which refutes such insults by the Bible:

 

YUSUFALI: He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;112.003

 

And indeed Allah Knows Best!

On a lighter note, I would say that John is confirming that he was not the real son of God. If God really had a son, His own son then John would have said that God gave his own and only son. 

Now who really begot or begat that son miraculously? It was in fact Mary who had actually begotten Jesus by the Command of God, for the miracle was shown by God.

Hi BMZ,

Actually, that is exactly what he says in John 3:16. "For God so loved the World that He gave is ONLY begotten son, that who so ever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life".

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Quote Jocko Replybullet Posted: 11 September 2007 at 4:25pm

 

   Hello,

       This is my first post on this forum. I am a lover of Christ and a believer in the New Testament.

        I read the Quran off and on because I felt that if I wished that Moslems would read the New Testament it was fitting that I should know what is in the Quran also.

        Concerning Jesus being begotten - the New Testament does not only refer to Jesus as the Onlybegotten Son of God. It also refers to Him as the Firstborn Son of God.

        Only begotten Son would emphasize His uniqueness as the only Son of God. Firstborn Son of God indicates that there are other sons of God to follow the First.

       Both Only begotten Son and Firstborn Son reveal that God desires to join with man so that man and God have the closest possible intermingled union of life and nature.

       When we think of Son of God or sons of God we should grasp God's deep desire to impart His being into man's being so that God indwells man and man indwells God. God and man are united in His eternal purpose according to the New Testament.

      The work that Christ has done in redemption bridges the horrible gulf and deep divide seperating a Holy God from the sinful and fallen man. The joining of God's life with man's life can only take place because of redemption of the Son of God is so extensive and effective solving all our problems which seperate us from God.

      I promise that you will find me a respectful and listening participant though I have strong beliefs. So if there is dialogue to take place I am opened to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!
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Jocko
 
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Quote Jocko Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2007 at 3:51am

 

    John 3:16 speaks of God becomming a man. It has to in light of Isaiah's prophecy in 9:6. And His giving of eternal life is the giving of Himself as the divine uncreated Being as man's life.

    The human language is limited in speaking of the nature and doings of God. When the Bible calls God "Eternal Father" it doesn't mean that He had eternal sex with an eternal female. It means that He is the eternal source of all lives. It means that He is the uncreated life.

     All forms of life in the universe were created. God alone is uncreated. And He is the Source of all lives. So He is called Eternal Father. 

      The rules on this forum suggest that participants steer away from making offensive statements. It seems strange that with this rule a senior participant would try to derive from the very words of the Bible highly provocative concepts as were expressed.

      Furthermore Isaiah's prophecy states that the "child" born will be called "the Mighty God". And it states that the son given" will be called the "Eternal Father".

     When you put these utterances together with John 3:16 you should realize that God giving His onlybegotten Son involves God Himself becomming a man. Remember, the created human "child" is the "Mighty God" according to Isaiah 9:6. And the son given is the eternal Father.

  Rather than speaking of sexual begetting the Bible is talking about the "begetting" of God being born into humanity. It is without question mysterious and "Wonderful". In fact Isaiah says that His name shalled firstly be called "Wonderful". Anything Wonderful is difficult to comprehend and hard to understand.

 Though the Eternal Father incarnating as a man to become the given Son is hard for human language to express and for man's mind to grasp, it is nevertheless for man's enjoyment and experience. For the prophecy is "unto us". That means for our enjoyment and experience.

  "For a child is born to us, A son is given to us, And the government is upon His shoulder; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace ..." (Isa. 9:6)

   If the Son is the Father and the Father is the Eternal Father than the Bible is not speaking of begetting in the typical human sexual sense in John 3:16. It is using limited human language to communicate to us something exceedingly profound about God becomming a man in the Son Jesus Christ.

  The Father and the Son are distinct. But they are not separated. One lives in the Other. Where one is the other lives in and with Him. There is a mutual coinherance of the Father in the Son and the Son in the Father. They are distinct. They are not separated.

   The Moslem desires a relationship with God. But the Moslem disbelieves the closeness of the relationship which God intends to have. The Moslem also sees the distance between man and God but does not appreciate the power of God to close the gap in the redemption of Jesus Christ. God can close the distant where we cannot.

 And of course God can cause the Firstborn Son Jesus to be the Elder Brother of more sons of God to come:

 "Because those whom He foreknew He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers." (Romans 8:29)

  Of course this is not the invention of the Apostle Paul. Jesus Himself in His resurrection was eager to inform His "brothers" that His God was now their God and His Father was now their Father:

 "Jesus said to her, Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brothers and say to them, I ascend to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God." (John 20:17)

 Human beings becomes sons of God not through the sex act of God but rather through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead:

 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has regenerated us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." (1 Peter 1:3)

 We are therefore man sons of God initially by receiving into our hearts the resurrected Christ through faith. We are begotten again in regeneration through the resurrection of Christ from the dead. We are born of God by receiving the resurrected Christ into our spirit.

 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name.

 Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12,13)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 15 September 2007 at 3:42pm
Jocko,

When was Jesus ever referred to as "Eternal Father" in the New Testament?  Besides that, when was he ever called "Wonderful Counselor", "Mighty God" or "Prince of Peace"? 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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