IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : G-d Does NOT Change! http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum This is an XML content feed of; IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Interfaith Dialogue : G-d Does NOT Change! Sat, 25 May 2013 08:33:45 +0000 Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:53:22 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 8.04 360 www.IslamiCity.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=24841 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_images/ICForum_Logo.gif http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum G-d Does NOT Change! : Greetings Hasan,42Saying,... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174248#174248 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 24841
Posted: 14 February 2013 at 3:53pm

Greetings Hasan,

42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.  (Luke)

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.  39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.  40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.  42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?  (John)

Yes, He questioned the people, but never His Father who sent Him.  He gave His life, at the hands of the Jews and the Romans, in obedience to the will of the Father who sent Him.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.


30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.  33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.

36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.



Edited by Caringheart - 14 February 2013 at 4:01pm]]> Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:53:22 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174248#174248 G-d Does NOT Change! : Originally posted by Caringheart Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174242#174242 Author: Mahdi The Seeke
Subject: 24841
Posted: 14 February 2013 at 1:11pm

Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart

I can only go by the fact that Jesus came, and what He said and revealed about Himself, and those things which he first spoke about and then came to pass, and those who were with Him saw the Truth, the good news, and went out into the world to share this good news, the Truth from God, even at the price of death.

DYING FOR SOMETHING DOES NOT MAKE IT REAL/TRUE
Greetings Mahdi,Would you die for something without having an awfully powerful belief in its truth?but yes, I guess your statement would be correct, there are people dying today because they believe they will receive 72 hourris' in their afterlife.What were the Apostle's dying for?Salaam,Caringheart
caringheart, use your head/brain.

but yes, I guess your statement would be correct, there are people dying today because they believe they will receive 72 hourris' in their afterlife.What were the Apostle's dying for?Salaam,Caringheart
you already believe people can die for something false, so do not ever use that nonsensical argument again.]]> Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:11:15 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174242#174242 G-d Does NOT Change! : Carinheart, The funny thing is... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174239#174239 Author: honeto
Subject: 24841
Posted: 14 February 2013 at 11:56am

Carinheart,
The funny thing is that he did not die, at least not by choice (remember his cries to God quoted in the Bible "...why have you forsaken me. He was killed, if we assume that for a second. There is a difference when someone kills someone vs someone giving his life willfully and that is called a suicide. I have not come across any verse in the OT yet that says that the Messiah will be killed!
There is a difference when someone asks for money from you nicely, vs rob you at gunpoint! According to your version he was killed at gunpoint or it's equivalent of that time. And do not forget he questioned his persecution. John 7:19
Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Thus we consult the Qruan, the only reliable, unchanged and true account of this matter:
"..but they killed him not, nor crucified him,.." 4:157
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 14 February 2013 at 12:07pm]]> Thu, 14 Feb 2013 11:56:03 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174239#174239 G-d Does NOT Change! : Originally posted by Mahdi... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174207#174207 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 24841
Posted: 13 February 2013 at 11:07am

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart

I can only go by the fact that Jesus came, and what He said and revealed about Himself, and those things which he first spoke about and then came to pass, and those who were with Him saw the Truth, the good news, and went out into the world to share this good news, the Truth from God, even at the price of death.

DYING FOR SOMETHING DOES NOT MAKE IT REAL/TRUE


Greetings Mahdi,

Would you die for something without having an awfully powerful belief in its truth?

but yes, I guess your statement would be correct, there are people dying today because they believe they will receive 72 hourris' in their afterlife.

What were the Apostle's dying for?

Salaam,
Caringheart
]]> Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:07:18 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174207#174207 G-d Does NOT Change! : Originally posted by 786... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174168#174168 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 24841
Posted: 12 February 2013 at 11:17am

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2BNwZk6Wi4&list=WLFHdUBKWxT2GrSQs5SIbA2wS6QDa3W4VJ


Greetings 786SalamKhan,

Yes, I have watched that debate before, and I found Evans to be more compelling than Ehrman.  I elaborated my reasons why at that time.  I don't know if it was posted on the forum, or if I kept my notes.  I do know what conclusion I reached.

Regardless, I still ask... Have you read the words of Jesus as they are recorded?
Is there anything in Jesus words as recorded that is not good?

I repeat myself;
"There have been many things said about Jesus and I have delved deeply into every thing that is said(and continue to do so), to weigh carefully whether the views I have held are clear and true.
It is this that allows me to realize that any one of us could find, in the end, that we have been wrong.
If anything saves me it may be my humility to accept this truth.
What is not wrong is what I find in God's Word... the Bible.
With Muhammad I gain nothing that I don't already have, without Jesus I lose everything."

I still conclude that;
"The only conclusive thing that I can always say is, who can argue with the teaching of Jesus?  Is there a single thing He taught, and brought to the world, that is not good?"

I find nothing of relevance that is disputable in the teaching, or life of Jesus, as it is recorded in the new testament.  If we follow the teaching, and way, of Jesus we are led to God.
If Muhammad was a prophet of God, then he too follows the teaching of Jesus, and thus is able to lead his people to God.  But you must know Jesus.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 12 February 2013 at 11:21am]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:17:14 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174168#174168 G-d Does NOT Change! : Originally posted by CaringheartI... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174159#174159 Author: Mahdi The Seeke
Subject: 24841
Posted: 12 February 2013 at 10:12am

Originally posted by Caringheart

I can only go by the fact that Jesus came, and what He said and revealed about Himself, and those things which he first spoke about and then came to pass, and those who were with Him saw the Truth, the good news, and went out into the world to share this good news, the Truth from God, even at the price of death.

DYING FOR SOMETHING DOES NOT MAKE IT REAL/TRUE]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2013 10:12:57 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174159#174159 G-d Does NOT Change! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174154#174154 Author: 786SalamKhan
Subject: 24841
Posted: 12 February 2013 at 8:06am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2BNwZk6Wi4&list=WLFHdUBKWxT2GrSQs5SIbA2wS6QDa3W4VJ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:06:31 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174154#174154 G-d Does NOT Change! : Originally posted by RationalIt... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174110#174110 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 24841
Posted: 11 February 2013 at 3:49pm

Originally posted by Rational


It upsets me to see you talking like this about our beloved prophet Mohammad (Salla Allah Allaihi wa Sallam). If the prophet heard you speak about him like this, I'd imagine he would turn his cheek and pray that Allah forgives you and guides you away from the darkness you live in.

"On the Day their tongues, their hands, and their feet will bear witness against them as to their actions." (24:24)

May Allah forgive you Caringheart.

Greetings Rational,

I'm sorry, and I know it does, and I am glad that you expressed it so civilly, but it should not be a source of injury to you.  We are all truth-seekers are we not?  What can Muhammad bring to me that I do not already have?  He brought his own people to belief in one god, which is good, but I already had that.
If God thinks I need His forgiveness, then I too, pray that I will receive it, but I am pretty certain that I live in the Light.

Salaam and blessings to you,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 11 February 2013 at 3:50pm]]> Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:49:13 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174110#174110 G-d Does NOT Change! : Originally posted by CaringheartWith... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174105#174105 Author: Rational
Subject: 24841
Posted: 11 February 2013 at 3:17pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

With Muhammad I gain nothing that I don't already have, without Jesus I lose everything.Salaam,Caringheart

It upsets me to see you talking like this about our beloved prophet Mohammad (Salla Allah Allaihi wa Sallam). If the prophet heard you speak about him like this, I'd imagine he would turn his cheek and pray that Allah forgives you and guides you away from the darkness you live in.

"On the Day their tongues, their hands, and their feet will bear witness against them as to their actions." (24:24)

May Allah forgive you Caringheart.

Edited by Rational - 11 February 2013 at 3:19pm]]> Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:17:54 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174105#174105 G-d Does NOT Change! : Originally posted... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174080#174080 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 24841
Posted: 10 February 2013 at 9:51pm

Originally posted by 786SalamKhan

Originally posted by Caringheart

I can only go by the fact that Jesus came, and what He said and revealed about Himself, and those things which he first spoke about and then came to pass, and those who were with Him saw the Truth, the good news, and went out into the world to share this good news, the Truth from God, even at the price of death.

http://knowingallah.com/index.php/en/articles/category/233

 "but none of us can convince each other, we can only take the information and try to convince ourselves."
I agree.
"I go by the fact that Muhammad(SAW) came, and what he said and revealed. This does not mean that the Bible is wrong or corrupt but men do make mistakes and after a long period of time when the original authors (Moses and Jesus) are no longer present G-d himself must correct it with the Quran."
I understand the logic applied in that statement, but I do believe it is a faulty statement.  Scrutiny shows that the scriptures have been meticulously preserved.

The only evidence needed for the trinity is in what Jesus Himself said.  Have you read the words of Jesus?

I have been doing some reading at the link you shared.   There is an awful lot of misinformation there.
There is no doubt of the similarities between all religions.  They all begin in Mesopotamian myth and there is unquestionably a thread of truth that connects them all.  Man has been seeking to understand their Creator, who has given them signs, ever since time began.

The only conclusive thing that I can always say is, who can argue with the teaching of Jesus?  Is there a single thing He taught, and brought to the world, that is not good?

There have been many things said about Jesus and I have delved deeply into every thing that is said, to weigh carefully whether the views I have held are clear and true.
It is this that allows me to realize that any one of us could find, in the end, that we have been wrong.
If anything saves me it may be my humility to accept this truth.
What is not wrong is what I find in God's Word... the Bible.
With Muhammad I gain nothing that I don't already have, without Jesus I lose everything.

Salaam,
Caringheart



Edited by Caringheart - 11 February 2013 at 10:21am]]> Sun, 10 Feb 2013 21:51:18 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174080#174080 G-d Does NOT Change! : Originally posted by CaringheartI... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174042#174042 Author: 786SalamKhan
Subject: 24841
Posted: 10 February 2013 at 1:44am

Originally posted by Caringheart

I can only go by the fact that Jesus came, and what He said and revealed about Himself, and those things which he first spoke about and then came to pass, and those who were with Him saw the Truth, the good news, and went out into the world to share this good news, the Truth from God, even at the price of death.



http://knowingallah.com/index.php/en/articles/category/233
What Jesus(PBUH) taught about himself however was not that he is divine but none of us can convince each other, we can only take the information and try to convince ourselves.

I go by the fact that Muhammad(SAW) came, and what he said and revealed. This does not mean that the Bible is wrong or corrupt but men do make mistakes and after a long period of time when the original authors (Moses and Jesus) are no longer present G-d himself must correct it with the Quran.

Try to imagine it from the other side of the argument, just consider Muhammad(SAW) as a Prophet. I would sometimes imagine without taking Quran and Muhammad into consideration(May Allah forgive me) that Jesus did die on the cross for our sins and that would not convince me. But I would never believe in the Trinity as there is not enough evidence to imagine that. Although Satan would try to force the idea into my head when I wake up before Fajr, but he would also try to force idolatry such as the Moabite "god" Chemosh, Praise Allah that I would fight off these thoughts.

May Allah Guide us all and grant us Jannah through his mercy only.

Edited by 786SalamKhan - 10 February 2013 at 1:50am]]> Sun, 10 Feb 2013 01:44:52 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174042#174042 G-d Does NOT Change! : I can only go by the fact that... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174016#174016 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 24841
Posted: 09 February 2013 at 11:38am

I can only go by the fact that Jesus came, and what He said and revealed about Himself, and those things which he first spoke about and then came to pass, and those who were with Him saw the Truth, the good news, and went out into the world to share this good news, the Truth from God, even at the price of death.]]> Sat, 09 Feb 2013 11:38:41 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174016#174016 G-d Does NOT Change! : Dear Trinitarians, Please consider... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174008#174008 Author: 786SalamKhan
Subject: 24841
Posted: 09 February 2013 at 9:45am

Dear Trinitarians,

Please consider the following verse:

Malachi 3:6
"I the Lord do not change...."

Some contend that the Trinity is not G-d changing but revealing himself more. Yet why do you believe in the Trinity when G-d already revealed:
"God IS not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" Numbers 23:19

Jesus was considered both man and son of man in the New Testament so this means Jesus(PBUH) is not God and the Trinity is false.


Edited by 786SalamKhan - 09 February 2013 at 10:10am]]> Sat, 09 Feb 2013 09:45:21 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24841&PID=174008#174008