Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Mahdi,Without the power of the Holy Spirit within me, I promise you, I do not have it in me to forgive gross wrongs committed against me.  It is not within my purely human nature to do so.  I need the grace of God.Salaam,Caringheart

Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Mahdi,Without the power of the Holy Spirit within me, I promise you, I do not have it in me to forgive gross wrongs committed against me.  It is not within my purely human nature to do so.  I need the grace of God.Salaam,Caringheart

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

so, before Jesus came, nobody could forgive anybody anything. Caringheart, please put some more thought in your replies.

Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Mahdi,Without the power of the Holy Spirit within me, I promise you, I do not have it in me to forgive gross wrongs committed against me.  It is not within my purely human nature to do so.  I need the grace of God.Salaam,Caringheart

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

so,for disciples to be able to forgive those who wronged them, they had to have the 'Holy Spirit' breathed into them? you do not need the Holy Spirit breathed into you to forgive those who wrong you, that is how i know that is not the forgiveness being referred to in those Bible verses quoted.

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke



the plain and obvious thing here is that you deliberately chose to ignore what the verse says and assigned your own unrelated belief to the verse. that you said 'The obvious and plain meaning here is not that Christians have the power to forgive sins' shows you understand the meaning. what you said after shows you are either in denial, delusional or both.

Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Mahdi, How do you know this was not the type of forgiveness Jesus was trying to lead us to?Salaam,Caringheart

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

that is not the type of forgiveness i am talking about.

Originally posted by Caringheart



Greetings Mahdi,If you forgive someone who has trespassed against you, have you not just forgiven them their sin?

Originally posted by bunter

The Bible teaches clearly that all men, both living and dead, saved and unsaved, must give an account to Christ. The Apostle Peter, in his great sermon in the house of Cornelius, said “that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead” (Acts 10:42). Later, in his First Epistle, Peter wrote that Christians “shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick (the living) and the dead” (1 Peter 4:5). 

Believers never need fear a condemnatory judgment for sin. For every Christian this judgment is already past. Jesus reassures us by His own word: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to (John 5:24). To this the Apostle Paul adds: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). 

Some scurrilous people have argued this is a licence to go on sinning but that is a total lie. How can anyone who is given such a salvation abuse God by not thereafter striving for a holy life. Indeed we read "Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us." (Hebrews 12:1)

In summary, for those who have absorbed Jesus's message, Christians confess their sins because they are forgiven not in order to obtain forgiveness.

Originally posted by Empiricist

Mahdi the hypocrite, God knows your heart.  I can forgive this.  That does not mean God does.  The disciples were given the power to forgive sins IN THE  NAME OF JESUS (not said but not needed to be said).   If it was so simple to refute there would be no Christians.  Do you think us all *****s?  You are practicing legalism as the Pharisees, as do all Muslims.  You think if you pray at the proper times, and follow all the rules, and maybe kill a few Christians, that you go to heaven and are given virgins to have sex with????  And you actually believe this hogwash?   Just another Pharisee, hypocrite.  God knows your  heart.

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke


in this case, the catholics seem to be following the Bible more closely since their belief is based on the Bible on this point. since the basis of power to forgive sins comes from the Holy Spirit and all christians have it, then they should all be able to forgive sins, according to the Bible.

Originally posted by Webber

Lol, Sorry Caringheart. I'm sure everything I say is irrelevent as well. We are not here to explain our beliefs but to defend the Catholics.

Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Mahdi,No I don't consider you to be rude, not by your simply questioning.  Now I understand.  Here we are once again talking about religious practice and of a particular church, namely the Catholic church with its practice of confession to a priest.Confession was an important thing taught by the early apostles.  Confession is a first step to repentance, and it is in repentance that we receive God's forgiveness.This is what was taught byJames, the half-brother of Jesus, and John, the beloved Apostle... so two people who were very close to Jesus and what He taught.

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.  (James)

and,

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  (John)

So while it may appear so to outsiders, it is not man that is forgiving the sins, it is the sinner making the confession, seeking to repent, and God's grace to forgive.  I think this is not much different than what muslims believe... that God forgives their sins when they sincerely ask and repent... Am I correct in this?  The teaching of Jesus you will see takes it a step further... that in order for the repentance to be genuine we must be willing to confess sins one to another.  This is a much harder thing to do and much more cleansing of the soul.  It is the purging of the evil that is allowed to live within when we do not acknowledge it.  In not acknowledging it to another it is easy to deceive ourselves and deny the sin and fool ourselves into believing we live for God.Hope this helps.Salaam,Caringheart

Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Mahdi,"There is no scripture(that I am aware of) that says that all those who
receive the Holy Spirit will have the authority to forgive sins."We do however, all have the power to forgive those who trespass against
our own selves, which is what Jesus encourages us to do."... forgive
us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."You do not think one needs the power of God's Holy Spirit to find it in ones self to forgive those who have done ill?  I do.Salaam,Caringheart

Originally posted by Caringheart


Ah, well, greetings Mahdi,This scripture was specifically Jesus speaking to His 12 Apostles.  It was to them that he gave the power to forgive sins.I wondered why you would be asking 'Christians' to forgive sins.There is no scripture(that I am aware of) that says that all those who receive the Holy Spirit will have the authority to forgive sins.  This was only spoken by Jesus to His Apostles.We do however, all have the power to forgive those who trespass against our own selves, which is what Jesus encourages us to do."...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..." - the prayer Jesus taught His disciples to say.Salaam,Caringheart

Originally posted by Webber

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

i am asking christians to forgive everybody their sins so we can all go to heaven, since they received the Holy spirit and have power to forgive sins

Originally posted by Caringheart

Is there a question here?

Originally posted by Caringheart

Is there a question here?

Originally posted by Webber



I wouldn't say that means all Christians. Some may think so...

Originally posted by bunter



The obvious and plain meaning here is not that Christians have the power to forgive sins but they do have the authority to say that one puts their trust in the atoning work of Jesus then sins are forgiven.

Originally posted by bunter



The obvious and plain meaning here is not that Christians have the power to forgive sins but they do have the authority to say that one puts their trust in the atoning work of Jesus then sins are forgiven.

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

john 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”