IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : God’s written instructions for life. http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum This is an XML content feed of; IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Interfaith Dialogue : God’s written instructions for life. Sat, 25 May 2013 15:58:32 +0000 Mon, 29 Apr 2013 20:40:55 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 8.04 360 www.IslamiCity.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=21316 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_images/ICForum_Logo.gif http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum God’s written instructions for life. : Kish writes: "God’s written... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=175758#175758 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 29 April 2013 at 8:40pm

Kish writes:
"God’s written instruction’s for LIFE:

Matthew 28: 19 Go therefore and make disciples*+ of people of all the nations,+ baptizing+ them in* the name of the Father+ and of the Son+ and of the holy spirit,+ 20 teaching+ them to observe+ all the things I have commanded YOU. (Found in the Injil) And, look! I am with YOU+ all the days until the conclusion* of the system of things.”*+

Although the Quran acknowledges Jesus resurrection, both Mary’s in the Gospel eye-witnessed the empty tomb stone that was heavily guarded and approched the resurrected Jesus and did obesiance to him.

The guards reported everything to the chief priest and the priest gave them a bribe to tell no one what they themselves have seen and heard.

Matthew 28 15 So they took the silver pieces and did as they were instructed; and this saying has been spread abroad among the Jews up to this very day. Sadly even the Quran supports this LIE!

Because of the many eye-witnesses (friends and enemies) of Jesus death and resurrection this event was never seriously debated until 1,500 centuries later. What took them so long?

When Jesus died, there was a violent earthquake, and the Roman army officer in charge of the execution was moved to say: “Certainly this was God’s Son.” (Matt. 27:54)

What the Qur’ān Says About Christ
♦ The angels announced good news from God to Mary. She would give birth to Jesus.—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:45.
♦ He was born of God’s spirit, without a human father.—Al-Anbiyā’ [21]:91.
♦ He was born holy (“faultless,” MMP).—Maryam [19]:19.
♦ God made of him a sign for mankind and a mercy from Him. —Maryam [19]:21.
♦ It was said of him that he was the Word of God and his Spirit.—Compare Āl ‘Imrān [3]:45; Al-Nisā’ [4]:171.
♦ God appointed him as prophet and apostle.—Al-Nisā’ [4]:171; Maryam [19]:30.
♦ God taught him the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Injīl.—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:48."



I answer:
Kish,
Do not forget that Quran completes that half picture that you painted. Some of the points that you missed:
1- "He (God)neither begets nor is born" (112:3)
2- "That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him"4:157
3- "so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs."4:171
4- "From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them:"(5:14)

These quotes from the Quran were some of the points that Allah clarified to mankind sent through prophet Mohammed (pbuh)for the last time so those who were following a misguided path following the departure of Jesus (pbuh) from the earth would have a chance to the truth and guidance.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 29 April 2013 at 8:47pm]]> Mon, 29 Apr 2013 20:40:55 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=175758#175758 God’s written instructions for life. : <> <> ... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=175082#175082 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 28 March 2013 at 6:30am

God’s written instruction’s for LIFE:

Matthew 28: 19 Gotherefore and make disciples*+ of people ofall the nations,+baptizing+them in* thename of the Father+and of the Son+and of the holy spirit,+ 20 teaching+ them toobserve+ allthe things I have commanded YOU. (Found in the Injil)And, look! I am with YOU+ all the daysuntil the conclusion*of the system of things.”*+

Although the Quran acknowledges Jesus resurrection, bothMary’s in the Gospel eye-witnessed the empty tomb stone that was heavilyguarded and approched the resurrected Jesus and did obesiance to him.

The guards reported everything to the chief priest and thepriest gave them a bribe to tell no one what they themselves have seen andheard.

Matthew28 15 So they took the silverpieces and did as they were instructed; and this saying has been spread abroadamong the Jews up to this very day. Sadly even the Quran supports this LIE!

Because of the many eye-witnesses (friends and enemies) ofJesus death and resurrection this event was never seriously debated until 1,500centuries later. What took them so long?

When Jesus died, there was a violent earthquake, and the Romanarmy officer in charge of the execution was moved to say: “Certainly this wasGod’s Son.” (Matt. 27:54)

What theQur’ān Says About Christ

♦ Theangels announced good news from God to Mary. She would give birth to Jesus.—Āl‘Imrān [3]:45.

♦ He wasborn of God’s spirit, without a human father.—Al-Anbiyā’ [21]:91.

♦ He was bornholy (“faultless,” MMP).—Maryam [19]:19.

♦ God madeof him a sign for mankind and a mercy from Him. —Maryam [19]:21.

♦ It wassaid of him that he was the Word of God and his Spirit.—Compare Āl ‘Imrān[3]:45; Al-Nisā’ [4]:171.

♦ Godappointed him as prophet and apostle.—Al-Nisā’ [4]:171; Maryam[19]:30.

♦ Godtaught him the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Injīl.—Āl ‘Imrān[3]:48.

 

]]> Thu, 28 Mar 2013 06:30:55 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=175082#175082 God’s written instructions for life. : How do we know that Jesus Christ... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=174925#174925 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 18 March 2013 at 8:43pm

How do we know that Jesus Christ was the most important human that ever lived outside The Holy Scriptures?

One Ḥadīth says that Christ is the only one that Satan did not touch: “When any human being is born, Satan touches him at both sides of the body with his two fingers, except Jesus, the son of Mary, whom Satan tried to touch but failed.”—The Book of the Beginning of Creation from Ṣaḥīḥ Al-Bukhārī.

God taught him the Book and Wisdom, . . . and the Injīl.—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:48.

The Injil, the most important book Jesus wanted us to follow and where God's written instructions for life live.
]]> Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:43:00 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=174925#174925 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Caringheart Greetings... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=173804#173804 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 04 February 2013 at 3:27pm

Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Hasan,
You haven't answered the question though, of why Jesus was a virgin birth?This is the only virgin birth in our faith... the Abrahamic faith.Salaam,CH


because it was the will of God. Just like Adam without mother and father, or Eve without mother or father was will of God. And the creation of even a fly or a virus, all are beyond our capability but for God, it is a matter of like saying be and it is!
Hasan ]]> Mon, 04 Feb 2013 15:27:07 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=173804#173804 God’s written instructions for life. : <> <> ... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=173360#173360 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 26 January 2013 at 10:14am

What else makes the Holy Writings of the Bible unique compared toany other Holy Writings?

Apart from it being the most widely distributed book in historyand being the best-selling book of the year, every year says a report in “TheNew Yorker” magazine. Also, in whole or in part, the Bible has been translatedinto more than 2,400 languages. At least some of the Bible is available in thelanguages spoken by over 90 percent of the human family. Truly a book fromGod!

It explains the meaning of world conditions and their outcome. 2Tim 3:1-5

It enables us to understand the purpose of life, like where didlife come from? Acts 17:24-26

Why are we here? Gen 1:27, 28

It explains that God’s Kingdom, his government will remove thepresent wicked system. Dan. 2:44

So that we can enjoy perfect health and eternal life. Rev. 21:3,4; compare Isaiah 33:24

What is the Bible?

The Bible is viewed in the East as made up of three differentbooks, namely, Tevrat (Torah), Zebur (Psalms) and Injil(Gospel). If you examine a Bible, you will find that each of these three booksis divided into several smaller books. In fact, the word “Bible” comes from theGreek word biblia, which means “little books.” In all there aresixty-six “little books” in the Bible. Tevrat, according to the way theBible is spoken of in the Qur’an, consists of thirty-nine “little books,” andincludes the book of Psalms, or Zebur. Injil consists of twenty-seven“little books.” We use the term “Hebrew Scriptures” to referto the first thirty-nine books of the Bible, since they were written in thatlanguage. And as the final part of the Bible was written in Greek, we call thatsection the “Greek Scriptures.

The twenty-seven “little books” of the Greek Scriptures (Injil)are made up of five history books, several letters written by followers ofJesus, and one book consisting almost entirely of prophecies. This section iscalled Injil, or Gospel, because the first four books are Gospels (whichword means “good news”). The writers of these Gospels were disciples of Jesus,named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Each Gospel contains an account of the lifeand death of Jesus Christ.

But why should there be four accounts of Jesus’ life? Why not justone?

In the Hebrew Scriptures (Tevrat) we are told that when animportant matter must be established, there should be more than one witness. Itsays: “At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses thematter should stand good.” (Deuteronomy 19:15) Now, the life of Jesus wasextremely important historically. Hence, God provided not three witnesses, butfour. We can be sure that what we read of Jesus, his sayings and his life, isthe truth.

]]> Sat, 26 Jan 2013 10:14:21 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=173360#173360 God’s written instructions for life. : The only version birth in all... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=173227#173227 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 23 January 2013 at 12:51pm

The only version birth in all three (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) faiths which by the way comes out of Abraham.  

But, the Quran doesn't teach why the virgin birth in the Gospel was necessary and therefore is not taught in Islam.

]]> Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:51:06 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=173227#173227 God’s written instructions for life. : Greetings Hasan, You haven't... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=173123#173123 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 21 January 2013 at 4:26pm

Greetings Hasan,

You haven't answered the question though, of why Jesus was a virgin birth?
This is the only virgin birth in our faith... the Abrahamic faith.

Salaam,
CH
]]> Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:26:28 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=173123#173123 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Caringheart Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=173119#173119 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 21 January 2013 at 3:35pm

Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by honeto

CAringheart,
all of God's prophets and their works were work of God, God living in them, so to speak, not that God was borrowing their bodies to dwell therein.
Hasan
 
Greetings Hasan,
I am led to ask this;
Was there ever another virgin birth?
Why the need for the virgin birth?
Salaam,
CH



CAringheart,
in Islam we know of only one virgin birth, the birth of Jesus or Essa (pbuh) to Mary (pbuh). And of course, if you consider, a higher miracle of birth of Adam not just without a father, but amazingly without even a mother!
I am nor sure about the Bible if there is any other virgin births. Out side of OT, NT, and FT there are some traditions in various parts and beliefs of the world that claim virgin births as well.
Hasan]]> Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:35:26 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=173119#173119 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by honetoKish, you... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172983#172983 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 18 January 2013 at 8:44pm

Originally posted by honeto

Kish,
you provide some truth, and some twists, nothing new from you.


I've provided all truths. From your lack of response however you are the one  twisting the scriptures.
]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:44:31 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172983#172983 God’s written instructions for life. : <> <> ... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172541#172541 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 10 January 2013 at 9:51am

How else do weknow that God’s written instructions for life are in the Gospel?

1)     Allof the Prophets in the New Testament and Jesus 12 Apostles agreed with it.

2)     Godwould not allow his word to be corrupted as he promised to preserve it.

Behold! Allahsaid: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee(of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who followthee SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, TO THE DAY OF RESURRECTION: Thenshall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matterswherein ye dispute." S. 3:55

TheQuran even goes as far as acknowledging Christ followers and that they wouldprevail.

O ye who believe!Be ye helpers of Allah: as said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples,"Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the Disciples,"We are Allah's helpers!" then a portion of the Children of Israelbelieved, and a portion disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believedagainst their enemies, AND THEY BECAME THE ONES THAT PREVAILED. S. 61:14

            The ones that prevailed were the Apostlessuch as Paul!

]]> Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:51:11 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172541#172541 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by honetoCAringheart, all... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172452#172452 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 08 January 2013 at 5:08pm

Originally posted by honeto

CAringheart,
all of God's prophets and their works were work of God, God living in them, so to speak, not that God was borrowing their bodies to dwell therein.
Hasan
 
Greetings Hasan,
I am led to ask this;
Was there ever another virgin birth?
Why the need for the virgin birth?
Salaam,
CH
]]> Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:08:18 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172452#172452 God’s written instructions for life. : CAringheart, all of God's... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172446#172446 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 08 January 2013 at 12:59pm

CAringheart,
all of God's prophets and their works were work of God, God living in them, so to speak, not that God was borrowing their bodies to dwell therein.
I hope what you say is true and you don't come around five minutes later to say God is a Trinity of three that are equal and Jesus is one of them, then this all will be a waste, a bluff.
And yes, I have finally checked that link, there's nothing new for me.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 08 January 2013 at 1:05pm]]> Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:59:13 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172446#172446 God’s written instructions for life. : Greetings Hasan,"Jesus... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172400#172400 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 January 2013 at 4:17pm

Greetings Hasan,
 
"Jesus said He has a God." 
Yes God the Father.  (So I do not deny what you have said)
 
"Jesus said God is greater than Him." 
Yes the Father is greater than the son.  (So again, I do not deny what you have said)
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
 
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Yes, we will be accountable.
Did you bother with the dissertation at the link that I shared?
 
Salaam,
CH


Edited by Caringheart - 07 January 2013 at 4:38pm]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 16:17:03 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172400#172400 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish, seems like in emotions you... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172398#172398 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 January 2013 at 3:20pm

Kish,
seems like in emotions you skipped what I wrote, the answer is in that verse:
" 6:157 (Y. Ali) "Or lest ye should say: "If the Book had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they.



Now then hath come unto you a clear (sign) from your Lord,- and a guide and a mercy (The Quran): then who could do more wrong than one who rejecteth Allah's signs, and turneth away therefrom?

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 07 January 2013 at 3:26pm]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 15:20:38 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172398#172398 God’s written instructions for life. : CAringheart, you say you understand... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172397#172397 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 January 2013 at 3:18pm

CAringheart,
you say you understand but then you deny in next breath. If you see him as human, there is no such thing as human and God. Those were part of Pagan myths that half God half monster or half man half God and so on. Please don't walk away from what you say in one breath that makes sense into something that does not or you will not benefit from your learning.
May God bless,
Hasan]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 15:18:47 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172397#172397 God’s written instructions for life. : There are the religious... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172362#172362 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 06 January 2013 at 3:45pm

There are the religious and there are the un-religious. That is what we should concern ourselves about.  It's not about what we are called by, it is about how we conduct ourselves... individually.

 
To reiterate from my post above... (see full post on Jan. 5th)

"What I know is this;

if we want to serve God and we fight each other we do not serve God, but the devil, and his purposes. As long as we are not embracing one another in brotherly love we are not serving God, and we can not be children of God."


Edited by Caringheart - 07 January 2013 at 1:59pm]]> Sun, 06 Jan 2013 15:45:43 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172362#172362 God’s written instructions for life. : <> <> ... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172356#172356 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 06 January 2013 at 12:39pm

Originally posted by honeto

Kish,
you provide some truth, and some twists, nothing new from you… This verse istalking about the Quran, not torah or gospel.

Hasan are you saying it should read S:6:157 "If theBook (Quran) had only been sent down to us (Muslims), we should have followedits guidance better than they(Jews and Christians).

By the way nowhere does it say here in your Quranthat the Message from the Torah or Gospel was corrupt. The allegationscame many centuries later.

]]> Sun, 06 Jan 2013 12:39:30 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172356#172356 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172318#172318 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:28pm

Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Caringheart



Do you ever stop to consider why you are against what Jesus taught of Himself?  That you are against Jesus and His message, even though you try to claim Him?
Just wondering.


Caringheart,
look who is talking. Jesus said he has a God, who deny that? you or I? Jesus said, God is grater than him. Who deny that you or I. Jesus said, every word you speak and every act you do will not go without accountability. You deny that or I?
 
Greetings Hasan,
I do not deny any of the things you have stated.
Jesus, as the human Son, answered in all things to the Father in heaven... and yet He was one with the Father.  "I and the Father are One."
'I laid aside My glory so I may come to you as you are in the flesh...'
 

8 Philip' said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” 

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

 
If you would like to read an extended dissertation on the subject there is a good one here;
 
It's not what I am here for.  I am here for conversation, understanding, and hopefully to achieve confidence in acceptance of one another, that we may all serve God and not His enemy.
 
Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 05 January 2013 at 2:37pm]]> Sat, 05 Jan 2013 14:28:31 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172318#172318 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish"Where... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172317#172317 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:21pm

Originally posted by Kish

"Where do one go for God's written instructions for life?" The answer is the The Gospel! Jesus nor Muhammad never said the Gospel was corrupt.The Cattle (Al-An`am) 6:154-157, Late Meccan.

"Then We gave Moses the Book complete as to whatever is excellent, and explaining all things in detail, and a guide and a mercy,
that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord. And this (the
Qur'an) is a Book which We have revealed, blessed: so follow it and be
righteous, that you may receive mercy: lest you should say, `The Book
was sent down to two peoples before us, and for our part, we remained
unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study;' or lest you should say: `If the Book (Torah and Gospel) had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they.'"



Kish,
you provide some truth, and some twists, nothing new from you.

By the way you give an example of what the Quran says regarding the people of the book, this fits your character and what you try to do:
"5:13 (Y. Ali) But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits:"

In the last verse, you inserted the words (torah and gospel). That is not what is meant there.
Here is that verse as it appears, and it is clear what it means.
6:157 (Y. Ali) "Or lest ye should say: "If the Book had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they." Now then hath come unto you a clear (sign) from your Lord,- and a guide and a mercy: then who could do more wrong than one who rejecteth Allah's signs, and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away. "
This verse is talking about the Quran, not torah or gospel.
Hasan
]]> Sat, 05 Jan 2013 14:21:49 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172317#172317 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Caringheart Do... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172314#172314 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:48pm

Originally posted by Caringheart



Do you ever stop to consider why you are against what Jesus taught of Himself?  That you are against Jesus and His message, even though you try to claim Him?
Just wondering.


Caringheart,
look who is talking. Jesus said he has a God, who deny that? you or I? Jesus said, God is grater than him. Who deny that you or I. Jesus said, every word you speak and every act you do will not go without accountability. You deny that or I?
It's time you revisit your ABC's dear.
Hasan]]> Sat, 05 Jan 2013 13:48:47 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172314#172314 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by KishWhere... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172297#172297 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:02am

Originally posted by Kish

Where can I find God’s written instructions for life?

That is my Question. I read, read and read but I know more is needed to please God fully. To be honest it’s quite wearisome at times reading different sacred books. From what I’ve read God does not speak to us directly as he did in the past so how does he communicate with people today? There are good people in every religion but I’m more of a spiritual person then a religious one. It seems that all the prophets did great things but that’s back then, what about now?  

I’m trying to find out which of the sacred books can stand the test of time (scrutinize). Can a person judge a religion by its followers, I guess, I really don’t know at this point. What I do know is that God is omnipotent and he offers something better and I can’t convince myself that he left it all up to chance. So, I’m concerned with the hard core facts, what his written word has to say and I guess everything else will work themselves out eventually.    

Where can I find God’s written instructions for life and please provide me with references (texts) so I can research it and compare one with the other and if I have any questions I’ll present them back here on this forum.    

Thanks in advance,

Kish

Hi KIsh,

I went back to see the opening question of this thread today.

I can't help noticing what began as a gentle question has turned into harsh arguing. :-(

I want to get back to your original question which I feels shows you are, or at least began, on a similar journey as myself.

I wrote this yesterday and thought to share it here today;

I think I'm sort of a zoroastrian. I think I decided I fit this description when I first read about it, about a year ago. I had never heard of zoroastrian before, and had never realized how many different religions there actually are. I personally do not believe in religion. I believe in God. That is why you do not see me calling myself by any religious label.

But I believe in Jesus, and I believe in the things He had to say, and I believe it is He who will be our Saviour. At least I know it is Him to whom I want to belong when it comes to it.

What I know is this

if we want to serve God and we fight each other we do not serve God, but the devil, and his purposes. As long as we are not embracing one another in brotherly love we are not serving God, and we can not be children of God.

Peace and blessings to you,
Caringheart
 
 
Every answer, to every thing, we ever needed to know, is in the Bible.
 
I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it... but because by it, I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis

　



Edited by Caringheart - 05 January 2013 at 3:13pm]]> Sat, 05 Jan 2013 10:02:59 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172297#172297 God’s written instructions for life. : "Where do one go for God's... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172274#172274 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 04 January 2013 at 1:56pm

"Where do one go for God's written instructions for life?" The answer is the The Gospel! Jesus nor Muhammad never said the Gospel was corrupt.

The Cattle (Al-An`am) 6:154-157, Late Meccan.

"Then We gave Moses the Book complete as to whatever is excellent, and explaining all things in detail, and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord. And this (the Qur'an) is a Book which We have revealed, blessed: so follow it and be righteous, that you may receive mercy: lest you should say, `The Book was sent down to two peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study;' or lest you should say: `If the Book (Torah and Gospel) had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they.'"


]]> Fri, 04 Jan 2013 13:56:43 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172274#172274 God’s written instructions for life. : Do you ever stop to consider... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172131#172131 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 30 December 2012 at 2:00pm

Do you ever stop to consider why you are against what Jesus taught of Himself?  That you are against Jesus and His message, even though you try to claim Him?
Just wondering.
]]> Sun, 30 Dec 2012 14:00:01 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172131#172131 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish, You and Caringheat play... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172128#172128 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 30 December 2012 at 1:21pm

Kish,
You and Caringheat play this cat and mouse game. I first replied to Caringheart regarding his claims that Quran does not say anything about corruption of the Bible. We have posted several verses from the Quran that clearly show that they were from God, but those who were inhcarge of them "forgot", "changed", "hide" from it. Those are the words of the Quran that you and others like you deny. And you all have a history of denials. You don't even believe your own Bible that tells you Jesus have a God, when he said "..to my God and your God". So, if you will deny your own book, imagine anything else is just waste of time.
The reason I believe and you confirmed is that Islam is not derived from Judaism and Christianity as you are teaching yourself.
Islam is from God, and so is Judaism and Christianity. That is a more appropriate statement, each through a teacher for a specified time. Now we live in the times under the teachings of prophet Mohammed (pbuh). That simple truth cannot go through your twisted thought?

May God have mercy on you and on Caringheart,
Hasan]]> Sun, 30 Dec 2012 13:21:10 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=172128#172128 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by honetoWe... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171776#171776 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 20 December 2012 at 7:30am

Originally posted by honeto

We the believers in One God do not need to use the Bible for references.
 
At least Muhammad did that as my quotes from the Quran shows. But many MODERN day Muslims on the otherhand, well, let me just say don't know what to believe when it comes to the Torah, Zabur and the Injil which is really sad. So let me just remind you all what YOUR Quran says . . . 
A1. Mary (Maryam) 19:12, Middle Meccan in -7 AH.

God says, "`Oh Yahya! (John the Baptist) take hold of the Book with might': and We gave him wisdom as a child."

A2. The Family of `Imran (Ali `Imran) 3:48, 2-3 AH.

The Angel Gabriel is speaking to Mary about Jesus before Jesus' birth and says: "And he (God) will teach him the book and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel"

A3. The Forbidding (Al-Tahrim) 66:12, 7 AH.

"and Mary (Jesus' mother)...believed in the words of her Lord and His Books"

A4. The Family of `Imran (Ali `Imran) 3:49-50, 2-3 AH.

Jesus says, "I have come to you...attesting to (the truth of) what is between my hands of the Torah, and to make lawful to you a part of that which is forbidden to you."

A5. The Battle Array (Al-Saff) 61:6, from 3 AH.

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: `Oh Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God to you, confirming that which IS between my hands from the Torah...'"

A6. The Table (Al-Ma'ida) 5:49, 10 AH.

"And in their footsteps (of Moses and the Jews) We sent Jesus the son of Mary, attesting to (the truth of) the Torah which was between his hands; and We gave him the Gospel - therein is guidance and light and attesting to (the truth of) the Torah which was between his hands: a guidance and an admonition to the righteous."

A7. 5:113.

"Then will God say, `O Jesus son of Mary! Recount my favor to you and to your mother when I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit, so that you spoke to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel...

We can only conclude from this that the True Unchanged Torah was present in the first century when Jesus lived.

Since the Sura of The Forbidding (Al-Tahrim) from 7 AH quoted above [A3] says that Mary believed in "His (God's) Books" (kutubihi), this must refer to the Books which the other Prophets brought to the Jews, as well as the Torah of Moses.

NOW LET ME SHOW YOU VERSES THAT TRUE CHRISTIANS WERE LIVING DURING THE PERIOD BETWEEN JESUS AND MUHAMMAD

B1. The Table (Al-Ma'ida) 5:113-114, 10 AH.

"Then will God say, `O Jesus son of Mary! Recount my favor to you... Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel...

"And behold! I inspired the disciples (al-hawariyun) to have faith in Me and My apostle (Jesus). They said (to Jesus), `We have faith and (you must) bear witness that we are Muslims (submitted ones)."

B2. The Family of `Imran (Ali `Imran) 3:52-53, 2-3 AH.

"When Jesus found unbelief on their part he said, `Who will be my helpers to (the work of) God?' The disciples said, `We are God's helpers. We believe in God and (you must) bear witness that we are Muslims (submitted ones). "`Our Lord we believe in what You have revealed and we follow the apostle (Jesus).'"

B3. The Battle Array (Al-Saff) 61:14, 3 AH.

"O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of God: as said Jesus the son of Mary to the disciples, `Who will be my helpers for God?' The Disciples said, `We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: but We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed."

VERSES SHOWING THAT THE TORAH AND THE GOSPEL WERE TRUE AND UNCHANGED AT THE TIME OF MUHAMMAD.

C1. The City of Saba (Saba) 34:31, Early Meccan.

"And the unbelievers say, `We will not believe in this Qur'an, nor in that which IS between his (its) hands (the Torah and the Gospel)'..."

Note: The CAPITAL LETTERS show verbs which are in the present tense for Muhammad and his people. Italics have been used for phrases speaking of groups of Jews or Christians at the time of Muhammad spoken of as believers or unbelievers in order to emphasize that there were always some true believers who would not have changed their own scriptures.

C2. The Originator of Creation (Fatir) 35:31, Early Meccan.

"That which we have revealed to you of the Book is the truth, attesting to (the truth of) that which IS between his (its) hands (the Torah and Gospel)..."

C3. Jonah (Yunus) 10:37, Late Meccan.

"This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than God; but it is a verification of that (the Torah and Gospel) which IS between his (its) hands, and the explanation of the book, wherein there IS no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds."

C4. Joseph (Yusuf) 12:111, Late Meccan.

"...It (the Qur'an) is not a fabricated story, but a verification of that (the Torah and Gospel) which IS between his (its) hands, a detailed explanation, a guide and a mercy to the people who believe."

C5. The Cattle (Al-An`am) 6:154-157, Late Meccan.

"Then We gave Moses the Book complete as to whatever is excellent, and explaining all things in detail, and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord. And this (the Qur'an) is a Book which We have revealed, blessed: so follow it and be righteous, that you may receive mercy: lest you should say, `The Book was sent down to two peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study;' or lest you should say: `If the Book (Torah and Gospel) had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they.'"

C6. The Believer (Al-Mu'min) 40:69-70, Late Meccan.

"Do you (Muhammad) not see those who dispute concerning the signs of God? How are they turned away? Those who REJECT the Book, and that (book) with which We sent our apostles, they shall know when the collars shall be around their necks, and the chains, they shall be dragged along."

C7. Winding Sand Tracts (Al-Ahqaf) 46:12, Late Meccan.

"And before this was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy: and this Book is a verification (of it) in the Arabic tongue to warn those who transgress and as glad tidings to the righteous."

C8. 46:29-30.

"Behold, We turned towards you a company of Jinns listening to the Qur'an...When the (reading) was finished they returned to their people as warners. They said, `O our people! we have heard a Book revealed after Moses attesting to (the truth of) that which IS between his (its) hands (the Torah) - guiding to the truth and to a straight path.'"

C9. The Heifer (Al-Baqara) 2:91, 2 AH.

"When it is said to them, `Believe in what God has sent down,' they say, `We believe in what was sent down to us (the Torah)': yet they reject all besides, even if it be truth attesting to (the truth of) what IS WITH THEM (the Torah)..."

C10. Family of `Imran (Ali `Imran) 3:3, 2-3 AH.

"It is He (God) who sent down to thee the Book in truth, attesting to (the truth of) what IS between its (his) hands (the Bible), and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel before this as a guide to mankind."

C11. The Women (Al-Nisa') 4:162-163, 5-6 AH.

"But those of them (the Jews) that are grounded in knowledge, and the believers, BELIEVE in that which has been revealed to you (Muhammad) and in that which has been revealed before you... We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the prophets after him, and We sent inspiration to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, and to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David we gave the Psalms."

C12. Repentance (Al-Tauba) 9:111, 9 AH.

"God has bought from the believers their selves and their wealth, and for them is the garden (of Paradise) if they fight in the ways of God: and whether they kill or are killed, the promise of God IS true in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an, and who is more faithful to his promise than God?"

C13. The Table (Al-Ma'ida) 5:51, 10 AH.

"To you (Muhammad) We revealed the book in truth, attesting to (the truth of) that which IS between his (its) hands from the scripture (the Torah and Gospel), and guarding it (wa muhaiminan `alaihi)..."

We find in these verses a strong testimony to the Torah and the Gospel as being true and present at the time of Muhammad.

In the Sura of Repentance, one of the last revelations given, it says, "The promise of God IS true in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Qur'an" [C12].

NOW THIS MIGHT SURPRISE YOU ALL -- HERE ARE VERSES WHERE MUHAMMAD ACTUALLY QUOTES OR APPEALS TO THE TORAH AND/OR THE GOSPEL.

D1. The Star (Najm) 53:33-38, Early Meccan.

"Do you (Muhammad) see the one who turns back? Gives a little, then hardens (his heart)? What has he knowledge of the unseen so that he can see? Nay, IS he not acquainted with what IS in the books of Moses and of Abraham who fulfilled his engagements? - namely that no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another."

D2. The Poets (Al-Shu`ara') 26:192-197, Middle Meccan.

"Verily this is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds. The Spirit of faith came down upon your heart with it that you might be one of the warners in the plain Arabic tongue. And truly it IS in the Scriptures (Zubur) of the former people. IS it not a sign to them that the learned of the Children of Israel RECOGNIZE it."

D3. Ta-Ha 20:133, Middle Meccan from -7 AH.

"They (the Meccans) say, `Why does he not bring us a sign from his Lord?' What! Has not a clear sign come to them in what IS in the former pages (al-suhuf al-aulla )?"

According to Baidawi's commentary on this verse - The "former pages" refers to "the Torah and the Gospel and all the divine books."

D4. The Prophets (Al-Anbiya') 21:7, Middle Meccan.

"And before thee (Muhammad), We sent no one, except men, to whom We granted revelation. ASK (plural) the people of the Scripture message, if you don't know."

D5. The Prophets (Al-Anbiya') 21:105, Middle Meccan.

"Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): `My servants, the righteous, shall inherit the earth.'"

This is a direct quotation from Psalm 37:29 which reads, "The righteous shall inherit the earth and dwell therein forever." When considered with the preceding quotation from the same Sura (21:7), it is clear that, according to the Qur'an, God is quoting from the Psalms as still present and true at the time of Muhammad.

D6. Gold Adornments (Al-Zukhruf) 43:44-45, Late Meccan.

"The (Qur'an) is indeed a message for you (Muhammad) and your people, (all of) you shall be brought to account, and ASK those of our apostles whom we sent before thee, `Did We appoint any deities other than the Most Merciful whom they should worship?'"

According to Baidawi, Jelaleddin, and Yusuf Ali, "ask those of our apostles whom we sent before thee" means enquire of their people - those learned in their writings and doctrines. Therefore those writings and doctrines were clearly available in Muhammad's time.

D7. Jonah (Yunus) 10:94, Late Meccan.

"If you (Muhammad) are in doubt regarding that which We have revealed to thee, ASK those who READ the book from before you..."

D8. The Bee (Al-Nahl) 16:43-44, Late Meccan.

"And We have not sent before you (Muhammad) other than men to whom we granted revelation. And (all of you) ASK the people of the (Scripture) Message if you don't know."

D9. The Children of Israel (Bani Isra'il) 17:101, Late Meccan from -1 AH.

"To Moses We gave nine clear signs. ASK (O Muhammad) the Children of Israel..."

Both the Jews and Christians "READ the book" [D15], and "STUDY it earnestly" [D17].

There are some righteous Jews [D14] who GUIDE with truth and JUDGE by it [D13], and among the Jews and Christians is a people on the right course [D24].

Meccans are told, "ASK the People of the Scripture message if you don't know" [D4,D8], and "ASK those of our Apostles whom we sent" - that is ask their people who are learned in their writings and doctrines [D6].

Muhammad is told, "ASK those who READ the Book from before you, if you are in doubt" [D7], and "ASK the Children of Israel" about the nine clear signs given to Moses [D9].

According to other passages God repeats commands from the Torah, warning the Jews to JUDGE by them [D22], and quotes from the Psalms of David [D5]. He appeals to worshiping as the likeness of Muslim believers which is to be found in the Torah, and alludes to growing seed in the Gospel of Jesus as the likeness of believers from the Gospel [D20].

Muhammad tells the Jews to bring the Torah that "it might JUDGE between them" [D16]. On another occasion he tells them, "BRING the Torah and READ it if you are men of truth" [D18].

God asks Muhammad why the Jews come to him for judgement when "they HAVE the Torah in which IS the command of God" [D21]; and the Christians are told to "JUDGE by what God has revealed in it (the Gospel)" [D23].

God speaks of "the Torah and the Gospel that IS WITH THEM" [D12]. And in the last Sura which came to Muhammad - the Sura of the Table (Al-Ma'ida) from 10 AH - both Jews and Christians are told "you are not (founded) on anything until you PERFORM the Torah and the Gospel, and what was revealed to you from your Lord" [D24].

One of the commentators, Ibn Ishaq, relates the following Hadith concerning this passage [D24]. He says:

"Rafi son of Haritha and Salam Ibn Mashkum and two others, came to Muhammad and said to him, `O Muhammad! do you not claim to be a follower of the religion of Abraham and of his faith, and do you not believe in that which we have of the Torah and do you not testify that it is truly from God.'

"He replied, `Yes, in truth, but you have invented new doctrines, and you deny that which is therein regarding which a covenant was taken from you; and you conceal what you have been commanded to show to mankind. Therefore, I separate myself from your new ideas.'

"They said, `And as for us, we hold by that which is in our hands, and we follow the truth and guidance; and we do not believe in you and we will not follow you.'

"Then the great and glorious God revealed, `Say, O People of the Book! You are not (founded) on anything until you perform the Torah and the Gospel and what was revealed to you from your Lord.'"

If this hadith is true then, by itself, it proves that Muhammad believed in the Torah available to the Jews in Medina in 10 AH. And, even if it is not a strong hadith, it is an important testimony to the fact that Muslims of the first and second century of the Hejira knew about a valid Torah and Gospel with them in Arabia.

With or without the above hadith, the 24 passages which we have looked at in this section and the 13 from the previous section, make a total of 37 quotations which testify to a true Torah and Gospel being available to the people of Mecca and Medina while Muhammad was alive.

Muslims may claim that the true Torah and true Gospel, which were present in Arabia, are different from those presently available. But where are they?!? Surely some Muslim would have preserved such important books in one of the many Muslim libraries found throughout the Islamic world, even if only to help the Jews and Christians obey the Quranic instruction to "perform the Torah and the Gospel". Moreover, we would then be able to compare them with the copies which have been preserved by the Jews and Christians.

In fact, this is not the case. No such ancient copies have been preserved by the Muslims. Over the whole world there is only one Torah, which IS WITH both Jews and Christians, and one book called the Gospel. which IS WITH the Christians.

BOTTOM LINE, you don't have to believe me but al leat submit to God as the SCRIPTURES tells you to do.
]]> Thu, 20 Dec 2012 07:30:46 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171776#171776 God’s written instructions for life. : <> <> ... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171605#171605 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 17 December 2012 at 4:45am

Originally posted by honeto

Our use of reference from theBible is just for those of you who claim that it is your trusted source. 

 

 . . . and you continue to put both feet inyour mouth so let me remind you “old man” Muslims belief is that Islam is builton the foundation of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, remember? The Qur'anMohammed recited claimed to agree with the Bible as per Ibn Khazim, remember.Muslims believe Allah revealed the Law to Moses, Psalms to David, messages toomany other prophets, the Gospel to Jesus, remember? Are you new to Islam?

 

Ohyea, where did the Quran get beliefs such as a single Deity, creation events,prophets, sin, righteousness, Satan, Judgment Day, heaven and hell? Where didMuhammad get Biblical characters like Noah, Abraham, Moses, Solomon and Jesusfrom, remember?

 

Originally posted by honeto

Our use of reference from theBible is just for those of you who claim that it is your trusted source. 

 

Obviously,it was everyone’s trusted source including Muhammad’s.

 

Quran 34:31 – Unbelievers (like yourself)REFUSED to believe it (The Bible)

 

Quran 4:162 – Those groundedin knowledge believe it (The Bible)

 . . . and my favorite of ALL Sura’s

Quran 40:70 – Judged forrejecting it (The Bible)

]]> Mon, 17 Dec 2012 04:45:27 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171605#171605 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish, you have a memory of a hundred... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171520#171520 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 15 December 2012 at 7:09pm

Kish,
you have a memory of a hundred year old, yet you whine like a baby.
How many times, I have mentioned it, repeated it, but seems like you do not read, or like I have said above, you just cannot remember, getting old?
Our use of reference from the Bible is just for those of you who claim that it is your trusted source. Our Muslim's) trusted source is the Final Testament, the Quran. May I suggest you make a plaque of this above statement and place it somewhere so you can see it often.
We the believers in One God do not need to use the Bible for references.
I wish I had not read the Bible because I had more respect for it then because I only knew that it was also from God. Now after knowing what it contains, I cannot give it the same respect even if I want. And we have seen it throughout our study, how much in contrast it is to the qualities of the All Knowing.
Still if you can feel comfort in it, that's your choice, there is no compulsion, you will pay for what you do as each one of us for our own deeds and choices.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 15 December 2012 at 7:14pm]]> Sat, 15 Dec 2012 19:09:51 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171520#171520 God’s written instructions for life. : Preface to the Revised Standard... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171498#171498 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 15 December 2012 at 1:15pm

Preface to the Revised Standard Version
(2nd ed., 1971)

The Revised Standard Version of the Bible is an authorized revision of the American Standard Version, published in 1901, which was a revision of the King James Version, published in 1611.


The King James Version has with good reason been termed “the noblest monument of English prose.” Its revisers in 1881 expressed admiration for “its simplicity, its dignity, its power, its happy turns of expression ... the music of it cadences, and the felicities of its rhythm.” It entered, as no other book has, into the making of the personal character and the public institutions of the English-speaking peoples. We owe to it an incalculable debt.

What a glowing tribute,but here is the shock!!!!!!

SIZE=6>Yet the King James Version has grave defects.Font Size 6
these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision

Because of unhappy experience with unauthorized publications in the two decades between 1881 and 1901, which tampered with the text of the English Revised Version in the supposed interest of the American public

Americans never seize to amaze me.

Edited by iec786 - 15 December 2012 at 1:19pm]]> Sat, 15 Dec 2012 13:15:56 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171498#171498 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by honetoThe... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171374#171374 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 11 December 2012 at 10:40am

Originally posted by honeto

The fact is that the Qur'an teaches and Muslims believe that the Bible is corrupted, changed, altered, added to, subtracted and so on.
But yet you piggy-back-off the Bible to make a point. Which means you do believe, it's ONLY what YOU think you should believe and what you think you should not believe, how convenient athough unconvincing in your argument.
 

So by using the Quran to prove the Bible is corrupt by use of the Quran, is using circular reasoning (the reasoner begins with what he or she is trying to end up with) but you're insinuating how weak and indecisive God is to preserve his book when he said he would preserve it. 

Simply using the Quran does not prove the Bible wrong just because the Quran says so, it would say the Bible is corrupted in order to promote it's Quranic's belief, dahhh. That is just what Ibn Khazim did.
 
Originally posted by honeto

So, I am not sure from where you get your information, and we need not anyone's testimony when it is all present in the Quran openly and clearly. What I presented to you is the facts, and I am a Muslim, rest is up to you.
 
Wrong! Again, again and again the Quran and Muslims uses "the book" in order to confirm it's testimony without the book or Bible they would have NONE, ZERO!
 
On the other hand I AM GLAD TO SAY, the Holy Bible does not need the Quran OR any BOOK to confirm it's testimony!
 
At the end of the day that's ALL THAT MATTERS
 
The Bible stands on it's own merit unlike the Quran which needs the Bible to stay alive and to exist.
 
Kish
 
 
   


Edited by Kish - 11 December 2012 at 10:42am]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:40:37 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171374#171374 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Caringheart The... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171265#171265 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 December 2012 at 3:47pm

Originally posted by Caringheart


The Koran and the earliest Muslims did not believe the Bible was corrupted. Muslims may be surprised to learn that, contrary to popular belief, the Koran actually says nothing about the corruption of the Bible. It may also surprise Muslims that historically, the first Muslim to trash the Bible was Ibn-Khazem, in 1064 AD.http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-koran-bible.htm(Aug. 11, 2012, notes)




Caringheart,
you are barking up the wrong tree.
The fact is that the Qur'an teaches and Muslims believe that the Bible is corrupted, changed, altered, added to, subtracted and so on. This claim is backed by so much evidence recorded in history, by material facts as well as scholarship.
I, after reading the Bible myself have confirmed it's inconsistency proving that it is no more pure word of God.
As far as your assumption that the Quran did not believe the Bible to be corrupt, I will say this. The Quran is a divine revelation, it's teachings are very clear when it comes to things that are important to each believer.
Status of previous prophets and books is clearly written in it. I will post here the verses that will make it clear to you what it teaches about them. We have done this before, but you seem to have short memory or something else is on your mind. Sorry, but I am straight forward on this matter, it is such a matter.

3:187 (Y. Ali) And remember Allah took a covenant from the people of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made!
Al Maidah (5):12 God did aforetime take a Covenant from the Children of Israel......(13) their hearts grew hard. They changed the words from their places and forgot a good part of the messsage that was sent them...........
14 From those who call themselves Christians we did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them.........soon will God show them what it is they have done.
15. O people of the Book (Jews and Christians) there hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you that you used to hide in the book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary."
There hath come to you from God a new light and a perspicuous Book.
16 Wherewith God guides all who seek His good pleasure, to ways of peace and safety, and leads them out of darkness by His will, Unto the light-guide them to a path that is straight.

So, I am not sure from where you get your information, and we need not anyone's testimony when it is all present in the Quran openly and clearly. What I presented to you is the facts, and I am a Muslim, rest is up to you.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 07 December 2012 at 4:07pm]]> Fri, 07 Dec 2012 15:47:40 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171265#171265 God’s written instructions for life. : Hi Honeto, Quote: The Quran... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171262#171262 Author: Placid
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 December 2012 at 11:57am

Hi Honeto,

Quote: The Quran also tells us that for each time (determined by God) there was a prophet and a revelation.
The Quran also confirms that in case of OT and NT, people who were given the job to guard it, distorted it, changed it words from place to place, hiding what they did not like and passed along the one that favor their agenda.
O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary. There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,-

Response: --- Yes, in studying the Quran I find that the Jews who first invited Muhammad to Yathrib (Madinah), --- became offended with his message, and then tried to discredit him in various ways.

However, it says that God guarded His Word in safety in Surah 5:
48 "To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed."
--- You see, they had the true word of God on hand, so they didn't have to listen to what the Jews wanted them to believe, but rather, --- expose them.

--- Also, I have looked at the messages that Muhammad gave in the Quran. As in Surah 2:
177 "It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness - to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Apostles; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him (God), for your kin, for orphans, for (others,) the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing."

Surah 2 was written in years 1-2 of the Hijrah, --- and he said about the same some 8 years later in year 9, in his last teaching message in Surah 9:
18 "The mosques of God shall be visited and maintained by such as believe in God and the Last Day, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity, and fear none (at all) except God. It is they who are expected to be on true guidance."

--- (These are called “the people of truth” and are comparable to the truths that Christians believe and teach, so should we not believe them?)

I realize there may be important parts of the revelations to Muhammad that I haven’t dwelt on, or understood, --- so could you list some of the new laws and regulations in the Quran, that are not written in the former Scriptures, that we should study?


Placid

]]> Fri, 07 Dec 2012 11:57:11 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171262#171262 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Placid--... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171261#171261 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 December 2012 at 10:44am

Originally posted by Placid

-- The 27 Books of the NT were 'confirmed' previous to 400 AD and were translated into many languages including Arabic, before 600 AD, --- so they, in Muhammad’s time had what we have.
--- How do you reason this out? --- If Gabriel revealed from God, to Muhammad, that the former Scriptures were true, --- can we be the judge and say, “I don’t know if I can trust what Gabriel said”?

I agree that’s what I have been saying all along. But is that what modern Muslims believe, that the Gospel Muhammad had is the same one today, not at all. They say that it has been changed AND corrupted.

Originally posted by honeto

Jesus preached Gospel, according to your own Bible,

As Placid, I and many ancient Muslims believe the Gospel we have is the same Gospel Muhammad had.

So I’ll ask this question again, can anyone on this forum show us a Gospel according to something else other than the Gospel we have now? Of course not they would have to out date the Dead Sea Scroll and other archeological AND historical evidence.

So instead some Muslims say “Jesus preached Gospel, according to your own Bible” Muslims want so bad the Gospel say and confirm the Quran. But the Quran disagrees with why Jesus was born of a virgin, his ministry, him being the son of God that salvation is only through Jesus, his death on a torture stake by his enemies and his resurrection into heaven and being Kings of Kings.

Although Jesus and his followers preached this same message Muhammad and his Quran disagrees on just these basic items.

Originally posted by honeto

may I ask, did he preach Gospel according to John, or Matthew, or Luke, or Mark, or Barnabbas , or Thomas, or Peter, or Judas.

As I’ve been saying all along on this forum Jesus and all his Apostles taught the same Gospel and preached the same message all throughout the New Testament, the same Gospel that Muhammad had in his possession and the same one we have today.

Originally posted by honeto

The problem arise when we find verses in the Bible that talk about Jesus preaching Gospel.
Matthew 4:23
"And Jesus went about in all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the Gospel of the kingdom,..."
Can you without sidetracking answer that, so I can bring back to your memory all of what you have forgotten after learning.  

The first problem is that you never read THE Gospel with any understanding. Because if you have you would actually know what the Gospel or the kingdom is and why Jesus and all his followers preached and taught it.

If you read the Gospel with understanding you would know why Jesus had to die on a stake and die a sacrificial death.

Hasan, you quoted Matt 4:23, what is the Gospel and who is King of God’s kingdom?

Originally posted by honeto

people who were given the job to guard it, distorted it, changed it words from place to place, hiding what they did not like and passed along the one that favor their agenda.

First Hasan, even your Quran says that the Gospel would be preserved although the Holy Bible said it thousands of years before the Quran. So, now you present a problem with the Quran since it is you who say it was not preserved.

Secondly, who and when was it changed since the one Muhammad had in his possession was accurate?

Third, show the forum from what was the Gospel changed from in order for your statement to be believable, can you or anyone on this forum do that? What is the Gospel supposed to say other than what we have now, can you do that for us, anybody?

Nope! Because I and many others have asked these same questions over a thousand times and no one, I mean no one comes up with any documentation to support their claim just assumptions.    

Originally posted by Caringheart

It may also surprise Muslims that historically, the first Muslim to trash the Bible was Ibn-Khazem, in 1064 AD.

YOU are Exactly Right! ! ! The sad thing about it, they rather believe this guy Ibn then their own messenger, sad, where is the loyalty.

Therefore, the present text must have been falsified by the Christians after the time of Muhammad.

Now, here is the funny thing about this statement, your guy Ibn-Khazem believes it was corrupted after Muhammad received it although many Muslims believe it was falsified before Muhammad received it, but by whom and when since many of the Bibles where already in circulation even in the Middle East, what they recalled each Bible and not one got away or lost?

Here is just ANOTHER BIG FALSE Accusation from Islam gone wrong with no proof to back it up.

But I would love to hear what their answers are.

Kish

]]> Fri, 07 Dec 2012 10:44:55 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171261#171261 God’s written instructions for life. : The Koran and the earliest Muslims... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171243#171243 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 06 December 2012 at 8:05pm

The Koran and the earliest Muslims did not believe the Bible was corrupted. Muslims may be surprised to learn that, contrary to popular belief, the Koran actually says nothing about the corruption of the Bible. It may also surprise Muslims that historically, the first Muslim to trash the Bible was Ibn-Khazem, in 1064 AD.

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-koran-bible.htm

(Aug. 11, 2012, notes)


Edited by Caringheart - 06 December 2012 at 8:05pm]]> Thu, 06 Dec 2012 20:05:06 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171243#171243 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by PlacidHi... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171232#171232 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 06 December 2012 at 3:44pm

Originally posted by Placid

Hi Kish,

As a Christian I can give you what the New Testament teaches, however, if you, --- like many others, believe that the NT has been changed, then you disbelieve in the revelations that Gabriel gave to Muhammad in 3:
3 He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

--- The 27 Books of the NT were 'confirmed' previous to 400 AD and were translated into many languages including Arabic, before 600 AD, --- so they, in Muhammad’s time had what we have.
--- How do you reason this out? --- If Gabriel revealed from God, to Muhammad, that the former Scriptures were true, --- can we be the judge and say, “I don’t know if I can trust what Gabriel said”?
--- How about 5:48 And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it.
--- Yusuf Ali: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.
--- If you don’t believe this revelation from God that He can ‘guard His Word’ --- then there is no use giving you guidance from the NT, is there?

However, --- it gives us clear instructions so I will share some directives for Christians:
--- John 4:34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.”
--- John 5:23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
--- John 5:36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. --- (Compare Surah 3:48-51.)
--- John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
--- John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

--- Ephesians 5:17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,
19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord,
20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
21 submitting to one another in the fear (reverence) of God.

--- 1 Thessalonians 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all.
15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.
16 Rejoice always,
17 pray without ceasing,
18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
19 Do not quench the Spirit.
20 Do not despise prophecies.
21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
22 Abstain from every form of evil.


Placid



Placid,
I know you are new to this forum, but his topic is not. The Quran confirms that previous prophets and the books given to them like Torah and Gospel were indeed were sent by God.
The Quran also tells us that for each time (determined by God) there was a prophet and a revelation.
The Quran also confirms that in case of OT and NT, people who were given the job to guard it, distorted it, changed it words from place to place, hiding what they did not like and passed along the one that favor their agenda.
O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary. There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,-
3:187 (Y. Ali) And remember Allah took a covenant from the people of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made!

I will be back with more as I have to leave for home now!
Hasan]]> Thu, 06 Dec 2012 15:44:34 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171232#171232 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171231#171231 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 06 December 2012 at 3:14pm

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by Placid

(Many who hide the truth of the Scripture, --- though they understand
it, have not changed it. --- And if they repent and tell the truth, they
will be forgiven.
But those who are disbelieving, or who don’t reveal the truth that they know, --- really condemn themselves, do they not?)
Very well said and welcome Placid. Like you I believe in the Old and New Testament, you cannot believe in one without believing in the other. In fact Moses, Isaiah and other Prophets spoke about the coming of Jesus and Jesus spoke of Moses and the Prophets of old, never condemning them OR their writings.However, Muslims say they believe in the Gospel given to Jesus but not the Gospel written by Jesus disciples. Where they received that information from no one knows but earlier Muslims disagree.  In fact the Dead Sea Scroll confirms the "Good News" or Gospel as being written from Jesus disciples in its entirety not that the Gospel was given to Jesus as they like to believe. What proof does Islam have that Jesus wrote or was giving the Gospel? They don't even believe that it was Jesus who was crucified they think it was Judas. So, it's apparent that the information they have on the Gospel is totally inaccurate.


Kish,
keep your eyes closed, if you think by doing so you can avert and hide from the cat eating you, we just have to see.
After learning so much on this forum, you go back to your old ways of brushing aside all the hard work replacing them with same old fantasies.
Jesus preached Gospel, according to your own Bible, may I ask, did he preach Gospel according to John, or Matthew, or Luke, or Mark, or Barnabbas , or Thomas, or Peter, or Judas. The historical record tells us that most of those were written way after Jesus.
The problem arise when we find verses in the Bible that talk about Jesus preaching Gospel.
Matthew 4:23
"And Jesus went about in all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the Gospel of the kingdom,..."
Can you without sidetracking answer that, so I can bring back to your memory all of what you have forgotten after learning.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 06 December 2012 at 3:19pm]]> Thu, 06 Dec 2012 15:14:26 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171231#171231 God’s written instructions for life. : Hi Kish, Thanks. --- God has... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171187#171187 Author: Placid
Subject: 21316
Posted: 05 December 2012 at 8:21am

Hi Kish,

Thanks. --- God has given instructions to people in various ways, --- The Ten Commandments are a “Code of Ethics” for all people.
And as this says, He gave this first instruction to the Jewish people in Deuteronomy 6:
4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.
7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.

--- And further explanation of how to live out the ten laws, plus others, like verse 18, are given in Leviticus 19:
18 “You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.”
--- Notice that in the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20, ---the first four deal with loving and worshiping God. --- And the last six deal with relationship to others, (love your neighbor as yourself).

Jesus answered a lawyer this way in Matthew 22:
35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying,
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
--- This says that if we fulfill these two commandments, in relationship to God and others, we have “fulfilled” the Old Testament laws, and the teaching and instructions of the Prophets, --- because their prophesies are “fulfilled” in our Faith in, --- and obedience to God”

However, in daily life we have many decisions to make, --- but if we first pray, --- this allows God to guide us in both small and large decisions.

I want to give you an interesting example of a student’s dilemma, some years ago.
--- He was choosing what University to go to, so the thing to do was to apply to more than one, because some might reject his application.
So he applied to five, and since his academics were good, --- he would have been accepted by all five.
--- As a Christian, he asked, how can I determine God’s will for where I will continue my education? --- Simply, how can I know God’s will, in this choice of five?

--- An unbeliever might look at the favorable living conditions, the cost, the close facilities for sports and entertainment, --- and make his choice that way.

--- Some Christians who are really close to the Lord and have a ‘Talent of Discernment’ through the Holy Spirit, may simply number each of the five and ask God to indicate which one. --- Or he might hold up his five fingers and ask the Lord to ‘indicate’ which one, as he touches the end of each finger. --- The Lord can give a ‘sensation’ in one finger. --- (I know, this may sound strange, but in the OT it was called ‘laying out a fleece,’ and leaving the choice to God, --- and God still guides people this way. --- He can do ‘exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think’ --- we just have to trust Him)

However, with the student, this is how the process could have gone. --- First, --- go over each one specifically and ask the Lord to indicate the advantages or disadvantages of each one. --- In doing that, two may be eliminated. --- Then you ask the Lord again, “Which one?” --- (Since we are not robots) He may leave the choice to you, --- but you say again, “I want You to guide me,” --- So there may be an indication that another one may be eliminated. --- So the choice is now between two that are both good. --- Again, the question, “Which one?” --- And after seeing your desire for God’s choice, He may indicate it without further delay.

Somebody said, “God chooses the best for those who leave the choices to Him.”
Life is full of choices which become ‘tests’ of our faithfulness to God. --- If we choose selfishly, there may be consequences. --- If we let Him guide by His Spirit, He knows the way ahead, so can guide us His way.

Notice that it says in the Quran, --- that we have two angels in attendance to monitor us, whether we do good or evil, in Surah 50:
16-29 --- Since He knows everything we do, --- we do the best to have Him guide us, do we not?


Placid

]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 08:21:33 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=171187#171187 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Placid(Many... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170869#170869 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 29 November 2012 at 5:31pm

Originally posted by Placid

(Many who hide the truth of the Scripture, --- though they understand it, have not changed it. --- And if they repent and tell the truth, they will be forgiven.
But those who are disbelieving, or who don’t reveal the truth that they know, --- really condemn themselves, do they not?)


Very well said and welcome Placid. Like you I believe in the Old and New Testament, you cannot believe in one without believing in the other. In fact Moses, Isaiah and other Prophets spoke about the coming of Jesus and Jesus spoke of Moses and the Prophets of old, never condemning them OR their writings.

However, Muslims say they believe in the Gospel given to Jesus but not the Gospel written by Jesus disciples. Where they received that information from no one knows but earlier Muslims disagree. 

In fact the Dead Sea Scroll confirms the "Good News" or Gospel as being written from Jesus disciples in its entirety not that the Gospel was given to Jesus as they like to believe.

What proof does Islam have that Jesus wrote or was giving the Gospel? They don't even believe that it was Jesus who was crucified they think it was Judas. So, it's apparent that the information they have on the Gospel is totally inaccurate.
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2012 17:31:39 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170869#170869 God’s written instructions for life. : Hi Kish, As a Christian I can... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170818#170818 Author: Placid
Subject: 21316
Posted: 28 November 2012 at 12:25pm

Hi Kish,

As a Christian I can give you what the New Testament teaches, however, if you, --- like many others, believe that the NT has been changed, then you disbelieve in the revelations that Gabriel gave to Muhammad in 3:
3 He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

--- The 27 Books of the NT were 'confirmed' previous to 400 AD and were translated into many languages including Arabic, before 600 AD, --- so they, in Muhammad’s time had what we have.
--- How do you reason this out? --- If Gabriel revealed from God, to Muhammad, that the former Scriptures were true, --- can we be the judge and say, “I don’t know if I can trust what Gabriel said”?
--- How about 5:48 And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it.
--- Yusuf Ali: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.
--- If you don’t believe this revelation from God that He can ‘guard His Word’ --- then there is no use giving you guidance from the NT, is there?

However, --- it gives us clear instructions so I will share some directives for Christians:
--- John 4:34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.”
--- John 5:23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
--- John 5:36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. --- (Compare Surah 3:48-51.)
--- John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
--- John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

--- Ephesians 5:17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,
19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord,
20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
21 submitting to one another in the fear (reverence) of God.

--- 1 Thessalonians 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all.
15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.
16 Rejoice always,
17 pray without ceasing,
18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
19 Do not quench the Spirit.
20 Do not despise prophecies.
21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
22 Abstain from every form of evil.


Placid

]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 12:25:14 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170818#170818 God’s written instructions for life. : Hi Kish, Sorry to be slow in... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170703#170703 Author: Placid
Subject: 21316
Posted: 26 November 2012 at 7:20am

Hi Kish,

Sorry to be slow in getting back to you about God’s instructions for our lives.
--- I hope you have found more info to guide you, but I want to add this from the Quran.

Really, knowing God, is a process, but you need to start with the basics of what you have learned, --- And I assumed you learned this from the Quran. ---That Muhammad was called of God to remove idolatry from Arabia and restore faith in our One God.

One of the earliest messages that Muhammad taught to his relatives and friends was the beginning of the Gospel, which was the first part of Surah 19. --- The miraculous birth of John the Baptist, and the Virgin Birth of Jesus. --- (I can explain that later if you want.)

This shows a connection to the Gospel --- and if we go on to what Muhammad was given not only to believe, himself, but what he was instructed to teach, --- it is found in these familiar verses. --- (This is the continuing Message, from Abraham to Muhammad.)

3:84 Say (O Muhammad): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
2:136 Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

16:123 And afterward We inspired thee (Muhammad, saying): Follow the religion of Abraham, as one by nature upright. He was not of the idolaters.
2:130 And who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself? --- Verily We chose him in the world, and lo! in the Hereafter he is among the righteous.

It was from the Patriarch Abraham that our three religions came. --- The message has always been the same, “Believe in God and follow the teaching that comes from the Faith of Abraham.
The Law was given through Moses for the Jews, --- as in this verse:
21:48 And We verily gave Moses and Aaron the Criterion (of right and wrong) and a light and a Reminder for those who keep from evil. --- (This was basically the Ten Commandments that are a ‘code of ethics’ for all generations, are they not?)

And the Gospel was given to Jesus, who was also the Messiah, and God’s special Messenger,--- as it says in these verses:
5:46 And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. --- (So you can see why Christians believe and teach the Gospel.)

Some of the Prophets and Leaders that are mentioned are in these verses:
4:163 Lo! We inspire thee as We inspired Noah and the prophets after him, as We inspired Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and as We imparted unto David the Psalms;
6:84 And We bestowed upon him (Abraham), Isaac and Jacob; each of them We guided; and Noah did We guide aforetime; and of his seed (We guided) David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward the good.
85 And Zachariah and John and Jesus and Elias. Each one (of them) was of the righteous. --- (These are from the New Testament.)

When you get to believe in all of these, --- then you are believing in the Messengers that came before Muhammad, --- and Gabriel confirmed that the former Scriptures were true, --- So it is no doubt the first step in what God requires of all believers. --- (As a Christian I believe it.)

--- And this is all from the Quran, isn’t it?


Placid

]]> Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:20:15 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170703#170703 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by KishAnd... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170670#170670 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 25 November 2012 at 3:15pm

Originally posted by Kish

And I am HAPPY to say NO Muslim have been able to show and prove by providing an original form of the Torah and Injil other than what we already have today!Until any Muslim can provide a so called uncorrupted version of the Torah and the Injil other than what we have you will never have peace.


Kish,
I am sad that before I read the Bible (one's in circulation today), I thought it was from God. After reading it, I am certain that there are things in it that cannot be from God while so many are fooled and midguided to believe that it is.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 25 November 2012 at 3:16pm]]> Sun, 25 Nov 2012 15:15:23 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170670#170670 God’s written instructions for life. : Hi Abu, Quote: So woe to those... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170652#170652 Author: Placid
Subject: 21316
Posted: 25 November 2012 at 6:02am

Hi Abu,

Quote: So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. 2:79
Indeed, those who conceal what We sent down of clear proofs and guidance after We made it clear for the people in the Scripture - those are cursed by Allah and cursed by those who curse, 2:159

Response: --- Verse 79 follows the incident of the Jews killing a man in V72, and disputing about it. --- Now let’s check the verse in its context in Surah 2:
75 Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they (the Jews) will believe in you? - Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of God, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it.
76 Behold! when they meet the men of Faith, they say: "We believe": But when they meet each other in private, they say: "Shall you tell them what God hath revealed to you, that they may engage you in argument about it before your Lord?" - Do ye not understand (their aim)?
77 Know they not that God knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal?
78 And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.
79 (Your verse) Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price! - Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
80 And they say: "The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days:" Say: "Have ye taken a promise from God, for He never breaks His promise? or is it that ye say of God what ye do not know?"
81 Nay, those who seek gain in evil, and are girt round by their sins, - they are companions of the Fire: Therein shall they abide (For ever).

--- (Those who write or teach something other than the Scriptures, have not changed the Scripture, they have just condemned themselves as hypocrite ---as V75 says, “and perverted it knowingly after they understood it.”
--- But they only wrote their ‘changed’ version, which did not change God’s word.)

And these verses also in Surah 2:
159 (Your verse) Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book, - on them shall be God's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,
160 Except those who repent and make amends and openly declare (the Truth): To them I turn; for I am Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
161 Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting, - on them is God's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;
162 They will abide therein: Their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).

--- (Many who hide the truth of the Scripture, --- though they understand it, have not changed it. --- And if they repent and tell the truth, they will be forgiven.
But those who are disbelieving, or who don’t reveal the truth that they know, --- really condemn themselves, do they not?)


Placid

]]> Sun, 25 Nov 2012 06:02:25 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170652#170652 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by PlacidHi... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170487#170487 Author: Abu Loren
Subject: 21316
Posted: 22 November 2012 at 2:07am

Originally posted by Placid

Hi Kish,

I have recently visited this forum and I find some interesting topics. --- I guess one of the basic questions for each of us, is your question, “Where can I find God’s written instructions for life?”
--- I read the first part of page 1 and page 30, so hopefully you found the answers in those many pages, --- However, I would like to comment on the first Posts, if I may.

Quote: Where can I find God’s written instructions for life and please provide me with references (texts) so I can research it

Response: --- I will give this later, but I think the second Quote is important first.

Quote: in my studies I’ve read this verse in the Quran, can someone shed a little light on it for me.
(S) 2:4 “[The righteous] trust what has been revealed to you and to others before you, and firmly believe in the life to come.”
Can someone explain to me what is meant by “what has been revealed” and also explain to me whom it was revealed to and what life it's referring to? Because this verse sounds as if it is giving advice as to how to achieve written instructions for life.

Response: --- This was spoken to Muhammad and refers to what had been ‘revealed to him,’ --- and it says this in Surah 42:
And thus have We inspired in thee (Muhammad) a Spirit of Our command. Thou knewest not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith. But We have made it (the revelation) a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our bondmen. And lo! thou verily dost guide unto a right path,
--- As the angel Gabriel revealed messages to Muhammad, he was given understanding through his intellect of the former Scriptures, and the Faith to believe them, (which was like a ‘light’ going on in his mind).

So this was the instruction given to Muhammad which was from v4, “what has been revealed to you and to others before you,” --- and because the former Scriptures of the Torah and the Gospel reveal future events and the understanding of heaven, --- they “firmly believe in the life to come.”

And Gabriel confirmed the former Scriptures in Surah 3:
3 He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, 'confirming' that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

It is often thought that in the Quran, ‘the People of the Book’ refer to both Jews and Christians, --- but there are verses that show their different attitude toward Muhammad’s teaching. --- And here is an example, which proves that what Muhammad taught was in line with what Christians already believed.

--- Check out these verses in Surah 5:
82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
83 And when they listen to the revelation received by the Apostle, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.
84 "What cause can we have not to believe in God and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?"
85 And for this their prayer hath God rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath, - their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good.
86 But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs, - they shall be companions of Hell-fire.

Quote: (from response to Islamispeace) --- Why didn’t Jesus say the Torah, Psalms and Gospel were corrupted when he was on earth? He never did, in fact he confirms the previous uncorrupted scriptures as you say Muhammad did. These are major, major, major conflicts my friend.
The Gospel (Four different writers) never said the Psalms and the Torah are in error nor the Psalms (King David and others) the Torah. This is a grave error that has been made against these "Holy Scriptures" because 2 Timothy 3:16 says " All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.

Response: --- The Quran doesn’t teach that the former Scriptures were changed or Gabriel would have revealed that to, and through, Muhammad, would he not?
--- Instead Gabriel ‘confirmed’ them in Surah 3:3 above, and here in Surah 5:
48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth 'confirming' the Scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.
--- (Is God not able to preserve His Word --- in safety, --- in spite of translations and faulty interpretations by men?)


Placid

 

Sahih International

So woe to those who writethe "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is fromAllah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for whattheir hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. 2:79

 

Indeed, those whoconceal what We sent down of clear proofs and guidance after We made it clearfor the people in the Scripture - those are cursed by Allah and cursed by thosewho curse, 2:159

]]> Thu, 22 Nov 2012 02:07:09 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170487#170487 God’s written instructions for life. : Hi Kish, I have recently visited... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170453#170453 Author: Placid
Subject: 21316
Posted: 21 November 2012 at 7:01am

Hi Kish,

I have recently visited this forum and I find some interesting topics. --- I guess one of the basic questions for each of us, is your question, “Where can I find God’s written instructions for life?”
--- I read the first part of page 1 and page 30, so hopefully you found the answers in those many pages, --- However, I would like to comment on the first Posts, if I may.

Quote: Where can I find God’s written instructions for life and please provide me with references (texts) so I can research it

Response: --- I will give this later, but I think the second Quote is important first.

Quote: in my studies I’ve read this verse in the Quran, can someone shed a little light on it for me.
(S) 2:4 “[The righteous] trust what has been revealed to you and to others before you, and firmly believe in the life to come.”
Can someone explain to me what is meant by “what has been revealed” and also explain to me whom it was revealed to and what life it's referring to? Because this verse sounds as if it is giving advice as to how to achieve written instructions for life.

Response: --- This was spoken to Muhammad and refers to what had been ‘revealed to him,’ --- and it says this in Surah 42:
And thus have We inspired in thee (Muhammad) a Spirit of Our command. Thou knewest not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith. But We have made it (the revelation) a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our bondmen. And lo! thou verily dost guide unto a right path,
--- As the angel Gabriel revealed messages to Muhammad, he was given understanding through his intellect of the former Scriptures, and the Faith to believe them, (which was like a ‘light’ going on in his mind).

So this was the instruction given to Muhammad which was from v4, “what has been revealed to you and to others before you,” --- and because the former Scriptures of the Torah and the Gospel reveal future events and the understanding of heaven, --- they “firmly believe in the life to come.”

And Gabriel confirmed the former Scriptures in Surah 3:
3 He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, 'confirming' that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

It is often thought that in the Quran, ‘the People of the Book’ refer to both Jews and Christians, --- but there are verses that show their different attitude toward Muhammad’s teaching. --- And here is an example, which proves that what Muhammad taught was in line with what Christians already believed.

--- Check out these verses in Surah 5:
82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
83 And when they listen to the revelation received by the Apostle, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.
84 "What cause can we have not to believe in God and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?"
85 And for this their prayer hath God rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath, - their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good.
86 But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs, - they shall be companions of Hell-fire.

Quote: (from response to Islamispeace) --- Why didn’t Jesus say the Torah, Psalms and Gospel were corrupted when he was on earth? He never did, in fact he confirms the previous uncorrupted scriptures as you say Muhammad did. These are major, major, major conflicts my friend.
The Gospel (Four different writers) never said the Psalms and the Torah are in error nor the Psalms (King David and others) the Torah. This is a grave error that has been made against these "Holy Scriptures" because 2 Timothy 3:16 says " All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.

Response: --- The Quran doesn’t teach that the former Scriptures were changed or Gabriel would have revealed that to, and through, Muhammad, would he not?
--- Instead Gabriel ‘confirmed’ them in Surah 3:3 above, and here in Surah 5:
48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth 'confirming' the Scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.
--- (Is God not able to preserve His Word --- in safety, --- in spite of translations and faulty interpretations by men?)


Placid

]]> Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:01:39 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170453#170453 God’s written instructions for life. : <> <> ... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170306#170306 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 18 November 2012 at 1:13pm

Originally posted by kish

Kish, 
how were you able to produce a quote from methat was not written by me, how you were able to do that fraud? 

Again, human error which I already apologized for, I guessyou will keep bringing up the same thing to avoid answering the question. 

I said earlier, The Holy Scriptures have the backing firstfrom God because he said he would preserve them, second from archaeology (DeadSea Scroll etc.) and third from eye-witnesses (historical testimonies)

Right from the start in the cave Muhammad has none of the above! So again provewhat backing the Quran has to prove it is from God  and that the Torah and Injil that we have today is not from God.

Where oh where is your burden of proof?

]]> Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:13:40 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=170306#170306 God’s written instructions for life. : And I am HAPPY to say NO Muslim... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169936#169936 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 09 November 2012 at 11:08am

And I am HAPPY to say NO Muslim have been able to show and prove by providing an original form of the Torah and Injil other than what we already have today!

Until any Muslim can provide a so called uncorrupted version of the Torah and the Injil other than what we have you will never have peace.

]]> Fri, 09 Nov 2012 11:08:38 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169936#169936 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish, how were you able to produce... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169507#169507 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 29 October 2012 at 2:09pm

Kish,
how were you able to produce a quote from me that was not written by me, how you were able to do that fraud?
Hasan]]> Mon, 29 Oct 2012 14:09:04 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169507#169507 God’s written instructions for life. : An honest mistake, sorry. But... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169408#169408 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 25 October 2012 at 3:07pm

An honest mistake, sorry. But you do agree with the statement Hason?

Originally posted by Abu Loren

It is for the Christians to produce the 'original' and since they can't and can only produce copies of copies of copies...eternally then the onus is on you.

What you have today is the corrupted words and actions of Isa (pbuh).


Huh, you are talking as if the Quran you have is not from copies, now that's really funny! And you know what is even funnier, the Old and New Testaments are older by almost a 1,000 years compared to the Quran but yet the Quran is from copies. That is why you do not have all the sura in the Quran you have now. Also, the original COPY was burned remember? Who would burn their own holy book unless their was something to hide.

On the other-hand, the Holy Scriptures have the backing first from God because he said he would preserve them, second from archaeology (Dead Sea Scroll) and third from eye-witnesses (historical testimonies)

Right from the start in the cave Muhammad has none of the above!   

Brother, it is Muslims that the burden of proof falls on since it is Muslims who is making the false assumption. Remember, innocent until proven guilty.



Edited by Kish - 25 October 2012 at 3:34pm]]> Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:07:31 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169408#169408 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by honeto Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169332#169332 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 24 October 2012 at 12:21pm

Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Hasan,Not my problem, but just my perspective...Isn't it possible it is just an honest mistake?Why do you immediately go to accusing people?I can understand addressing the confusion... maybe ask a question... correct a mistake...  [IMG]smileys/smiley24.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Ermm" />Salaam,Caringheart


Caringheart,
Kish has typed in caps words that I never typed, and then he has put them up as if I wrote them and then he is replying to them. Do you get it?
That is fraud, am I wrong to label it as such?
When someone says you said something that you have never said, what do you call it?
Hasan


I actually have made the mistake of making a reply to the wrong person once.  That person simply pointed out my mistake and I was able to correct it.
]]> Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:21:31 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169332#169332 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Caringheart Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169324#169324 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 24 October 2012 at 10:34am

Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by Honeto

ALL MUSLIMS BELIEVE THAT THE TORAH, PSALMS, INJIL ETC WERE REVEALED TO
PROPHETS. BUT THESE ARE NOT IN THEIR ORIGINAL FORM AS THEY ARE NOW C O R
R U P T E D!
And I am HAPPY to say NO Muslim have been able to show and prove by providing an original form of the Torah and Injil other than what we already have today!Until any Muslim can provide a so called uncorrupted version of the Torah and the Injil other than what we have you will never have peace.



Kish,
I did not think that you will resort to fraud when discussing religious matters on this forum.
I never use caps in my replies and those are not my words on this page anywhere. How did you write something as a quote appearing as if I wrote it. I did not write what you quoted of me above.
Care to reply my post above? or is it something that caused you to seek fraudulent ways so you could dodge some real questions and issues!
Hasan
Greetings Hasan,Not my problem, but just my perspective...Isn't it possible it is just an honest mistake?Why do you immediately go to accusing people?I can understand addressing the confusion... maybe ask a question... correct a mistake...  [IMG]smileys/smiley24.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Ermm" />Salaam,Caringheart


Caringheart,
Kish has typed in caps words that I never typed, and then he has put them up as if I wrote them and then he is replying to them. Do you get it?
That is fraud, am I wrong to label it as such?
When someone says you said something that you have never said, what do you call it?
Hasan
]]> Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:34:56 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169324#169324 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Caringheart Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169293#169293 Author: Abu Loren
Subject: 21316
Posted: 23 October 2012 at 11:24am

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Abu Loren

 What you have today is the corrupted words and actions of Isa (pbuh).


Greetings Abu Loren,

You must keep telling yourself this, for if not, you would have to abandon Muhammad.

You really ought to read the words of Jesus and then make an opinion.

Salaam,
Caringheart
 
I know what I'm talking about. I used to be Christian.
]]> Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:24:27 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169293#169293 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Abu LorenWhat... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169292#169292 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 23 October 2012 at 10:58am

Originally posted by Abu Loren

 What you have today is the corrupted words and actions of Isa (pbuh).


Greetings Abu Loren,

You must keep telling yourself this, for if not, you would have to abandon Muhammad.

You really ought to read the words of Jesus and then make an opinion.

Salaam,
Caringheart
]]> Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:58:48 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169292#169292 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Oh... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169271#169271 Author: Abu Loren
Subject: 21316
Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:27am

Originally posted by Kish

Oh stop whining will you. Abu Loren said all Muslims, so I thought you would agree with him. In any case you do agree with his statement though correct?

But what happened to this "uncorrupted version" that Muslims fantasize about? When and where did it happened?

You mean 'all' powerful Allah could not preserve one "uncorrupted version" of his word, not one version? But, now he can preserve the plagiarized Quran, what changed?

How utterly convenient then for Muhammad to use this ploy to deceive his own people to believe this false lie. I see why that wicked angel who Muslims call Gabriel clocked Muhammad many, many, many times over before he even listened.

 
It is for the Christians to produce the 'original' and since they can't and can only produce copies of copies of copies...eternally then the onus is on you.
 
What you have today is the corrupted words and actions of Isa (pbuh).
]]> Tue, 23 Oct 2012 02:27:40 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169271#169271 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by honeto Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169259#169259 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 22 October 2012 at 8:29pm

Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by Honeto

ALL MUSLIMS BELIEVE THAT THE TORAH, PSALMS, INJIL ETC WERE REVEALED TO
PROPHETS. BUT THESE ARE NOT IN THEIR ORIGINAL FORM AS THEY ARE NOW C O R
R U P T E D!
And I am HAPPY to say NO Muslim have been able to show and prove by providing an original form of the Torah and Injil other than what we already have today!Until any Muslim can provide a so called uncorrupted version of the Torah and the Injil other than what we have you will never have peace.



Kish,
I did not think that you will resort to fraud when discussing religious matters on this forum.
I never use caps in my replies and those are not my words on this page anywhere. How did you write something as a quote appearing as if I wrote it. I did not write what you quoted of me above.
Care to reply my post above? or is it something that caused you to seek fraudulent ways so you could dodge some real questions and issues!
Hasan


Greetings Hasan,

Not my problem, but just my perspective...
Isn't it possible it is just an honest mistake?
Why do you immediately go to accusing people?
I can understand addressing the confusion... maybe ask a question... correct a mistake...  Ermm

Salaam,
Caringheart
]]> Mon, 22 Oct 2012 20:29:22 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169259#169259 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169245#169245 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 22 October 2012 at 1:18pm

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by Honeto

ALL MUSLIMS BELIEVE THAT THE TORAH, PSALMS, INJIL ETC WERE REVEALED TO
PROPHETS. BUT THESE ARE NOT IN THEIR ORIGINAL FORM AS THEY ARE NOW C O R
R U P T E D!
And I am HAPPY to say NO Muslim have been able to show and prove by providing an original form of the Torah and Injil other than what we already have today!Until any Muslim can provide a so called uncorrupted version of the Torah and the Injil other than what we have you will never have peace.



Kish,
I did not think that you will resort to fraud when discussing religious matters on this forum.
I never use caps in my replies and those are not my words on this page anywhere. How did you write something as a quote appearing as if I wrote it. I did not write what you quoted of me above.
Care to reply my post above? or is it something that caused you to seek fraudulent ways so you could dodge some real questions and issues!
Hasan]]> Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:18:12 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169245#169245 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by HonetoALL... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169166#169166 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 19 October 2012 at 8:35pm

Originally posted by Honeto

ALL MUSLIMS BELIEVE THAT THE TORAH, PSALMS, INJIL ETC WERE REVEALED TO PROPHETS. BUT THESE ARE NOT IN THEIR ORIGINAL FORM AS THEY ARE NOW C O R R U P T E D!


And I am HAPPY to say NO Muslim have been able to show and prove by providing an original form of the Torah and Injil other than what we already have today!

Until any Muslim can provide a so called uncorrupted version of the Torah and the Injil other than what we have you will never have peace.


]]> Fri, 19 Oct 2012 20:35:10 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=169166#169166 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish writes: "If YOU do not... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168656#168656 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 05 October 2012 at 1:41pm

Kish writes:
"If YOU do not want to accept the 'book' fine but at least accept what Allah told you about it, read S 5:68 again and stop adding your two cents
in what it should say, example . . ."

Kish,
Allah has told us in the Quran what we have been showing to you. That it were people who changed the word of God sent previously.
Let me give you another example. Remember in the Quran it says to believers that food of the people of the book is good for them to eat. How come that can be so that now most of Christians if not all eat pork, why would Allah say to eat their food while He has made it forbidden for Muslims? The answer might help you to understand what you ask.
The answer might be that it shows that when Allah revealed the Quran, the people of the book were still following the dietary laws that were same as what God commanded them to follow in the OT. So what happened in course of time is that Christians changed that and made pork clean for themselves and thus eating something that was haram. That was a change we all can see very visible without any authority from God. That is a major alteration and change.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 05 October 2012 at 1:44pm]]> Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:41:40 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168656#168656 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by KishAbu,... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168654#168654 Author: Abu Loren
Subject: 21316
Posted: 05 October 2012 at 1:18pm

Originally posted by Kish

Abu, if you are unable to see that you have been fooled into believing that Allah's word is corrupt despite what the Quran says then so be it. The proof is in the verses that you just quoted. Are Allah's revelations corrupted? Are you saying that he failed to keep his promise?15:9     We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).      Inna nahnu nazzalna alththikrawa-inna lahu lahafithoona Believe what you may but be careful what you say, the Holy Scriptures is the WORD OF GODlike it or not!If YOU do not want to accept the 'book' fine but at least accept what Allah told you about it, read S 5:68 again and stop adding your two cents in what it should say, example . . .
Originally posted by Abu Loren

tell the Jews and Christians to really follow the Torah and the Injil and not the corrupted version that you have. . . Indeed the Torah and the injil was guidance and light for the people until it was corrupted by human hands. So therefore, it is no longer the Words of God nor are they still guidance and light.
You stand on very, very dangerous grounds by those unfounded remarks as if Allah is weak and unable to protect his word when he said he would.We can easily put this to rest, where is this so called 'uncorrupted' version of the Torah and Gospel that Islam speaks of although the early Muslims did not believe that! Tell us when this so called corruption took place and by who? Or is it because the Torah and the Gospel is not a book for Muslims and thereforedisagrees with most of it's teachings?S 4:162 But those among them who are well-grounded in knowledge, and the believers, believe in what hath been revealed to thee and what was revealed before thee:But here again you put your own two cents in by corrupting the Quran by saying . . .
Originally posted by Abu Loren

those grounded in knowledge believe in what was revealed to Muhammed (pbuh) and I acknowledge that there will be Jews and Christians who will be rewarded, no doubt about that.
But who or what was revealed Before Muhammad? You know the answer, the Holy Scriptures. It was completed 500 years before the Quran was reveled to Muhammad. But, you rather believe Ibn Khazem because because of his issues and belief. Now where is your "SUBMISSION" ONLY IN NAME?
Originally posted by kish

Oh!!!!! I love this one Muslims should believe it. Are you saying Muhammad TOLD you to believe in a corrupted Bible he himself had in his possession?
Originally posted by abu loren

Without getting emotional I wish you could have quoted the verse, so I can give you the answer. Again Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) never told me to believe in any Bible.
Must I show you everything? 3:84     Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord . .S4:136   4:136     O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Apostle, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Apostle and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.But of course you still do not believe and for that I feel sorry for.
Originally posted by abu loren

If he did then there was no point in a new revelation.
Exactly Now, we are getting somewhere!Galatians 1:8 However, even if we or an angel (Gabriel) out of heaven were to declare to ​YOU​ as good news (or Revelation) something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news (or Revelation) let him be accursed.Islam says the Quran makes no distinction between God's revelation S 2:136 but you do by making these false charges. Until then Islam will neverhave peace much like Israel, for murdering Jesus on Nissan 13, 33 C. E. Kish



Mr. Kish it seems you don't read any of my replies, so I will go through again what you have written. I will do it so hopefully you will understand it as a pupil learns from a teacher (no offence intended).

Abu, if you are unable to see that you have been fooled into believing that Allah's word is corrupt despite what the Quran says then so be it.Are you saying that he failed to keep his promise?

I don't understand this part. If you are saying that the Holy Qur'an is stating the scriptures, the Torah and the Injil are incorruptible then you are wrong. The Torah and the Injil ARE CORRUPT because there are man made additions and omissions. What Allah Subhana Wa T'ala has stated is that He will protect the Holy Qur'an the final revelation to mankind. God never said that He will protect the Torah and the Injil. I think this is where you are getting confused.

Believe what you may but be careful what you say, the Holy Scriptures is the WORD OF GODlike it or not!

If you mean the Torah and the Injil then you are wrong. It was the WORD OF GOD when it was revealed, but as it was corrupted by men it longer is the WORD OF GOD.

If YOU do not want to accept the 'book' fine but at least accept what Allah told you about it, read S 5:68 again and stop adding your two cents in what it should say, example . . .

If by the 'book' you mean the Bible then no I will not accept it because my God has told me that is corrupted. I'm not adding my two cents but giving you evidence from the Holy Qur'an. My opinion does not matter here or there. Regarding verse 5:68 again you do not understand it. Let me copy and paste it here and explain to you the meaning.

Sahih International

Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.

Ok when the Holy Qur'an begins a verse with 'say' it is telling Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) to tell whoever is doubting or enquired about a matter, so in this instance it is saying tell the people of the scripture ie. Jews and Christians that they must uphold the Mosaic Law. Then it says that what has been revealed to Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) ie. The Holy Qur'an, the Jews and Christians will not accept nor believe in it.

You stand on very, very dangerous grounds by those unfounded remarks as if Allah is weak and unable to protect his word when he said he would.

The Holy Qur'an has been unchanged since it was revealed the first time and it is still in it's original language so it is not 'lost in translation'.

We can easily put this to rest, where is this so called 'uncorrupted' version of the Torah and Gospel that Islam speaks of although the early Muslims did not believe that!

The 'uncorrupted' version of the Torah does not exist anymore because it has been corrupted by men.

Tell us when this so called corruption took place and by who? Or is it because the Torah and the Gospel is not a book for Muslims and therefore disagrees with most of it's teachings?

This corruption took place over time as scribes and priests who used to copy then began to add their bits into the Holy Words of God, so the original message was mixed with these additions. It's not a question of the Torah and Injil are not books for Muslims rather Muslims believe that the Torah and the Injil were given to Prophet Musa (pbuh) and Prophet Jesus (pbuh) respectively but because of the corruption contained therein we cannot rely on them as the Words of God. With regard to verse 4:62 I have already explained to you that if you read the full verse it is saying that the Jewish scholars who know the Torah is from God also know that the Holy Qur'an is a revelation from God. Those who will follow Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and accept him as a messenger of God will be saved. The last sentence is not talking about Jews or Christians who follow the Torah or the Injil rather the followers of the new revelation.

But who or what was revealed Before Muhammad? You know the answer, the Holy Scriptures. It was completed 500 years before the Quran was reveled to Muhammad. But, you rather believe Ibn Khazem because because of his issues and belief. Now where is your "SUBMISSION" ONLY IN NAME?

The Torah, the Psalms, the Injil etc were revealed to God's holy prophets, nobody is denying this fact. By the way, those scriptures lost it's holiness when men began to add their own script thus making it corrupt. I don't understand by what you mean when you say they were completed 500 years before the Holy Qur'an was revealed. It's still corrupt isn't it?

Must I show you everything?

No, it's me who's showing you everything but you have a hard time grasping the simplicity of what I am telling you.

Verse 3:84 is confirming that those scriptures were indeed revealed to those holy prophets of God. Nobody is denying that fact. What I am saying is that over time they got corrupted.

MY FRIEND I WILL WRITE THE FOLLOWING IN CAPS BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE YOU WILL ONLY UNDERSTAND WHEN I SHOUT AT YOU!

ALL MUSLIMS BELIEVE THAT THE TORAH, PSALMS, INJIL ETC WERE REVEALED TO PROPHETS. BUT THESE ARE NOT IN THEIR ORIGINAL FORM AS THEY ARE NOW C O R R U P T E D!

I don't take any writing of Paul seriously because he was a liar and a fraud.

Islam says the Quran makes no distinction between God's revelation S 2:136 but you do by making these false charges. Until then Islam will never have peace much like Israel, for murdering Jesus on Nissan 13, 33 C. E.

Sahih International

And they did not appraise Allah with true appraisal when they said, " Allah did not reveal to a human being anything." Say, "Who revealed the Scripture that Moses brought as light and guidance to the people? You [Jews] make it into pages, disclosing [some of] it and concealing much. And you were taught that which you knew not - neither you nor your fathers." Say, " Allah [revealed it]." Then leave them in their [empty] discourse, amusing themselves.

Edited by Abu Loren - 05 October 2012 at 1:20pm]]> Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:18:49 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168654#168654 God’s written instructions for life. : Abu, if you are unable to see... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168612#168612 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 04 October 2012 at 7:48pm

Abu, if you are unable to see that you have been fooled into believing that Allah's word is corrupt despite what the Quran says then so be it.
The proof is in the verses that you just quoted. Are Allah's revelations corrupted? Are you saying that he failed to keep his promise?

15:9     We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
      Inna nahnu nazzalna alththikrawa-inna lahu lahafithoona

Believe what you may but be careful what you say, the Holy Scriptures is the WORD OF GODlike it or not!

If YOU do not want to accept the 'book' fine but at least accept what Allah told you about it, read S 5:68 again and stop adding your two cents
in what it should say, example . . .


Originally posted by Abu Loren

tell the Jews and Christians to really follow the Torah and the Injil and not the corrupted version that you have. . . Indeed the
Torah and the injil was guidance and light for the people until it was corrupted by human hands. So therefore, it is no longer the
Words of God nor are they still guidance and light.


You stand on very, very dangerous grounds by those unfounded remarks as if Allah is weak and unable to protect his word when he said he would.

We can easily put this to rest, where is this so called 'uncorrupted' version of the Torah and Gospel that Islam speaks of although the early Muslims
did not believe that!

Tell us when this so called corruption took place and by who? Or is it because the Torah and the Gospel is not a book for Muslims and therefore
disagrees with most of it's teachings?

S 4:162 But those among them who are well-grounded in knowledge, and the believers, believe in what hath been revealed to thee and what was
revealed before thee:

But here again you put your own two cents in by corrupting the Quran by saying . . .

Originally posted by Abu Loren

those grounded in knowledge believe in what was revealed to Muhammed (pbuh) and I acknowledge that there will be Jews and Christians who will
be rewarded, no doubt about that.


But who or what was revealed Before Muhammad? You know the answer, the Holy Scriptures. It was completed 500 years before the Quran was reveled
to Muhammad. But, you rather believe Ibn Khazem because because of his issues and belief. Now where is your "SUBMISSION" ONLY IN NAME?


Originally posted by kish

Oh!!!!! I love this one Muslims should believe it. Are you saying Muhammad TOLD you to believe in a corrupted Bible he himself had
in his possession?


Originally posted by abu loren

Without getting emotional I wish you could have quoted the verse, so I can give you the answer. Again Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) never told me to
believe in any Bible.


Must I show you everything?
3:84     Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in
(the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord . .

S4:136   4:136     O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Apostle, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Apostle and the scripture which He sent
to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.

But of course you still do not believe and for that I feel sorry for.

Originally posted by abu loren

If he did then there was no point in a new revelation.


Exactly Now, we are getting somewhere!

Galatians 1:8 However, even if we or an angel (Gabriel) out of heaven were to declare to ​YOU​ as good news (or Revelation) something beyond what we declared to
YOU as good news (or Revelation) let him be accursed.


Islam says the Quran makes no distinction between God's revelation S 2:136 but you do by making these false charges. Until then Islam will never
have peace much like Israel, for murdering Jesus on Nissan 13, 33 C. E.

Kish

]]> Thu, 04 Oct 2012 19:48:22 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168612#168612 God’s written instructions for life. : I'm sorry to say it looks... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168581#168581 Author: Abu Loren
Subject: 21316
Posted: 04 October 2012 at 2:49am

I'm sorry to say it looks like the heart of Caringheart is closed and s/he will not see anything except what s/he wants to see.]]> Thu, 04 Oct 2012 02:49:03 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168581#168581 God’s written instructions for life. : Caringheart, did you read the... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168562#168562 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 03 October 2012 at 3:02pm

Caringheart,
did you read the last sentence?
"The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters."

Hasan]]> Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:02:12 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168562#168562 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Abu... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168476#168476 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 01 October 2012 at 2:57pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Caringheart

"So if you[prophet] are in doubt about what We have revealed to you, ask those who have been reading the scriptures before you"  surah 10:94Wow, Kish, I am reading the Qur'an but had not come across that yet.  I just looked it up.


Don't get that warm self-satisfying feeling just yet. You have to red the preceding verse to get the context. I'll copy and paste here for you so can read them in full.

Sahih International
And We had certainty settled the Children of Israel in an agreeable settlement and provided them with good things. And they did not differ until [after] knowledge had come to them. Indeed, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ
So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters. 10:93-94

Now does it make sense?


Thank you Abu Loren,

I did read it in context.  In fact I read the entire surah.
I'm sorry you read into my response.  I was only expressing my surprise.  It changes nothing for me one way or the other.

Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 01 October 2012 at 3:07pm]]> Mon, 01 Oct 2012 14:57:23 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168476#168476 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168475#168475 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 01 October 2012 at 2:46pm

Originally posted by Kish


Originally posted by Abu Loren

I'm sorry but which Bible is that? The one that's corrupted or the
original one given to Prophet Musa (pbuh) which noboby knows where it
is?
Simply the same Bible that Muhammad had in his possession. Was the Bible (Holy Scriptures) Muhammad had corrupted? Remember, he TOLD you it was God's revelation (S 5:68) Where you will find Guidance and light (S 3:3, 5:46)Meccans refused to believe in it (S34:31)Those grounded in knowledge believe it (S4:162)Any of this ring a bell? Remember, you were TOLD God's promises are in it. (S9:111)Oh!!!!! I love this one Muslims should believe itAre you saying Muhammad TOLD you to believe in a corrupted Bible he himself had in his possession?Was it Muhammad who said "We are judged by it"? (S 5:47)Was Muhammad being judged by God by using a corrupted Bible and by telling his followers to refer to a corrupted Bible when in doubt, does that really makes since my brotha? (S 10:94)Are you reading the Quran?Will be waiting for your answers . . .


Kish and Caringheart,
its funny that you both live of off flash excitements.
I hope you both try to read the whole verses before getting too much excited.
Of course we believe the OT and Nt books were from God, when have anyone of us argued that?
And of course in God's revelation God sent guidance, so those two points you are trying to make is like the remarks many Christians (pastors) make about Muslims, without knowledge that Muslims don't know Christ!

And as we see that the full verse does not help your point as Br Abu Loren said.

And Kish you seems to be on something, really high because I do not see reasons for your excitement when I read the same verse in context! what's you are on bro?
[4:156] (They are condemned) for disbelieving and uttering about Mary a gross lie.

Crucifying "the Body" of Jesus*
[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him—they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.

Footnote

[4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

[4:159] Everyone among the people of the scripture was required to believe in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness against them.

[4:160] Due to their transgressions, we prohibited for the Jews good foods that used to be lawful for them; also for consistently repelling from the path of GOD.

[4:161] And for practicing usury, which was forbidden, and for consuming the people's money illicitly. We have prepared for the disbelievers among them painful retribution.

[4:162] As for those among them who are well founded in knowledge, and the believers, they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you. They are observers of the Contact Prayers (Salat), and givers of the obligatory charity (Zakat); they are believers in GOD and the Last Day. We grant these a great recompense.

Hasan
]]> Mon, 01 Oct 2012 14:46:57 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168475#168475 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Caringheart"So... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168472#168472 Author: Abu Loren
Subject: 21316
Posted: 01 October 2012 at 12:27pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

"So if you[prophet] are in doubt about what We have revealed to you, ask those who have been reading the scriptures before you"  surah 10:94Wow, Kish, I am reading the Qur'an but had not come across that yet.  I just looked it up.


Don't get that warm self-satisfying feeling just yet. You have to red the preceding verse to get the context. I'll copy and paste here for you so can read them in full.

Sahih International
And We had certainty settled the Children of Israel in an agreeable settlement and provided them with good things. And they did not differ until [after] knowledge had come to them. Indeed, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ
So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters. 10:93-94

Now does it make sense?]]> Mon, 01 Oct 2012 12:27:51 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168472#168472 God’s written instructions for life. : I know this is not the thread... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168471#168471 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 01 October 2012 at 11:01am

I know this is not the thread for it but since you mentioned;
And We had certainty settled the Children of Israel in an agreeable settlement and provided them with good things.
Why then do Muslims dispute over the 'children of Israel' being 'settled' in their land?
]]> Mon, 01 Oct 2012 11:01:00 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168471#168471 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168450#168450 Author: Abu Loren
Subject: 21316
Posted: 01 October 2012 at 1:03am

Originally posted by Kish


Originally posted by Abu Loren

I'm sorry but which Bible is that? The one that's corrupted or the
original one given to Prophet Musa (pbuh) which noboby knows where it
is?
Simply the same Bible that Muhammad had in his possession. Was the Bible (Holy Scriptures) Muhammad had corrupted? Remember, he TOLD you it was God's revelation (S 5:68) Where you will find Guidance and light (S 3:3, 5:46)Meccans refused to believe in it (S34:31)Those grounded in knowledge believe it (S4:162)Any of this ring a bell? Remember, you were TOLD God's promises are in it. (S9:111)Oh!!!!! I love this one Muslims should believe itAre you saying Muhammad TOLD you to believe in a corrupted Bible he himself had in his possession?Was it Muhammad who said "We are judged by it"? (S 5:47)Was Muhammad being judged by God by using a corrupted Bible and by telling his followers to refer to a corrupted Bible when in doubt, does that really makes since my brotha? (S 10:94)Are you reading the Quran?Will be waiting for your answers . . .


Simply the same Bible that Muhammad had in his possession. Was the Bible (Holy Scriptures) Muhammad had corrupted? Remember, he TOLD you it was God's revelation (S 5:68)

Did angel Gaberiel (AS) tell you that Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) had a Bible in his possession or are you clairvoyant?

All surah 5:68 is telling us is that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala is ordering Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) hence it begins with 'SAY' to tell the Jews and Christians to really follow the Torah and the Injil and not the corrupted version that you have. Then it goes on to say that the Truth which was revealed to Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) will be rejected by the Jews and Christians.

Where you will find Guidance and light (S 3:3, 5:46)

Indeed the Torah and the injil was guidance and light for the people until it was corrupted by human hands. So therefore, it is no longer the Words of God nor are they still guidance and light.

Meccans refused to believe in it (S34:31)

Indeed because the Meccans at that time were idol worshippers and worse than that.

Those grounded in knowledge believe it (S4:162)

Yes it says those grounded in knowledge believe in what was revealed to Muhammed (pbuh) and I acknowledge that there will be Jews and Christians who will be rewarded, no doubt about that.

Any of this ring a bell?

Not quiet sure what you mean here.

Remember, you were TOLD God's promises are in it. (S9:111)

Surah 9:111 simply says that if a believer gives up his property and his life and fight in the cause if Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala he wll have Paradise. It just says that this promise was made in the Torah, Injil and the Holy Qur'an.

Oh!!!!! I love this one Muslims should believe itAre you saying Muhammad TOLD you to believe in a corrupted Bible he himself had in his possession?

Without getting emotional I wish you could have quoted the verse, so I can give you the answer. Again Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) never told me to believe in any Bible. If he did then there was no point in a new revelation.

Was it Muhammad who said "We are judged by it"? (S 5:47)

What? Read the surah properly, if you don't understand it then please ask. Here it is...

Sahih International
Sahih International And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.

Was Muhammad being judged by God by using a corrupted Bible and by telling his followers to refer to a corrupted Bible when in doubt, does that really makes since my brotha? (S 10:94)

Well to understand surah 10:94 you have to read the previous verse. Here it is...

Sahih International

And We had certainty settled the Children of Israel in an agreeable settlement and provided them with good things. And they did not differ until [after] knowledge had come to them. Indeed, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ

Are you reading the Quran?Will be waiting for your answers . . .

I read the Holy Qur'an every single day and I get a warm tingly feeling every time I do :)

I hope my answers are sufficient, if you need more clarification please ask.

I told you before to not to talk/speak/communicate without knowledge.

As'alaamu Alaikkum]]> Mon, 01 Oct 2012 01:03:09 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168450#168450 God’s written instructions for life. : "So if you are in doubt about... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168446#168446 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 30 September 2012 at 3:03pm

"So if you[prophet] are in doubt about what We have revealed to you, ask those who have been reading the scriptures before you"  surah 10:94

Wow, Kish, I am reading the Qur'an but had not come across that yet.  I just looked it up.
]]> Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:03:34 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168446#168446 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Abu LorenI'm... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168390#168390 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 29 September 2012 at 2:50pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

I'm sorry but which Bible is that? The one that's corrupted or the original one given to Prophet Musa (pbuh) which noboby knows where it is?


Simply the same Bible that Muhammad had in his possession. Was the Bible (Holy Scriptures) Muhammad had corrupted? Remember, he TOLD you it was God's revelation (S 5:68)
Where you will find Guidance and light (S 3:3, 5:46)
Meccans refused to believe in it (S34:31)
Those grounded in knowledge believe it (S4:162)

Any of this ring a bell?

Remember, you were TOLD God's promises are in it. (S9:111)
Oh!!!!! I love this one Muslims should believe it

Are you saying Muhammad TOLD you to believe in a corrupted Bible he himself had in his possession?

Was it Muhammad who said "We are judged by it"? (S 5:47)

Was Muhammad being judged by God by using a corrupted Bible and by telling his followers to refer to a corrupted Bible when in doubt, does that really makes since my brotha? (S 10:94)

Are you reading the Quran?

Will be waiting for your answers . . .



Edited by Kish - 29 September 2012 at 2:52pm]]> Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:50:06 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168390#168390 God’s written instructions for life. : Caringheart, you are right, but... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168264#168264 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 26 September 2012 at 3:02pm

Caringheart,
you are right, but only with contradiction!
Hasan]]> Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:02:15 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168264#168264 God’s written instructions for life. : @Abu Loren,Regarding Noah,... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168254#168254 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 26 September 2012 at 12:22pm

@Abu Loren,

Regarding Noah, and Lot...

It is written.

and is of little consequence today.


Regarding the Bible... the one we have... the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow...
every answer, to every thing, that any one, ever needed to know, is in the Bible


Edited by Caringheart - 26 September 2012 at 12:29pm]]> Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:22:27 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168254#168254 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by CaringheartAnswering... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168246#168246 Author: Abu Loren
Subject: 21316
Posted: 26 September 2012 at 7:58am

Originally posted by Caringheart

Answering your initial question;"<span style="mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><font face="Calibri">Where can I find God’s written instructions for life?"<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Every answer, to every thing, that you ever needed to know, is in the Bible.</span>



I'm sorry but which Bible is that? The one that's corrupted or the original one given to Prophet Musa (pbuh) which noboby knows where it is?

Out of interest do you believe that Prophet Nuh (pbuh) was a drunk? Do you believe Prophet Lut (pbuh) had sexual intercourse with his daughters? ]]> Wed, 26 Sep 2012 07:58:35 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168246#168246 God’s written instructions for life. : Answering your initial question;&#034;Where... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168044#168044 Author: Caringheart
Subject: 21316
Posted: 20 September 2012 at 7:50pm

Answering your initial question;

"Where can I find God’s written instructions for life?"

Every answer, to every thing, that you ever needed to know, is in the Bible.
]]> Thu, 20 Sep 2012 19:50:41 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=168044#168044 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish, all those questions have... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167958#167958 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 19 September 2012 at 2:41pm

Kish,
all those questions have been answered you just like to go around in circular for whatever reasons.
Here they are again:
1-All Bibles (both NT and OT)
I have pasted the first verse of the first book of the Bible. There is "Allah" in it crystal clear.

Arabic Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-AR)

[بدايةُ العالم]
اليومُ الأوّلُ: النّور
1 فِي البَدءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ السَّماواتِ وَالأرْضَ.
"
2. I personally do not have answer to that question. Prophet's father did die before his birth. But you have heard us all that Islam did not start with Mohammed (pbuh). Islam is as old as Adam and he knew Allah. So there you have it. people before the prophet knew Allah and had names like Abdullah, not a surprise to anyone with knowldge.
3-of course to Allah, there is one God, the only one worthy of our worship.

Hasanاللهُاللهُ

Edited by honeto - 19 September 2012 at 2:45pm]]> Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:41:21 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167958#167958 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by honetoAs... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167862#167862 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 17 September 2012 at 7:03pm

Originally posted by honeto

As far as Jesus crying to God as "Allah", it is simple because that quote is the only place where Jesus' words are quoted in his native language (Aramaic).


So let me ask you this again. Was it Jesus that died and was crucified and not an imposter (Judas) which Muslims believe and promote?

And the 3 questions above you never addressed, but here they are again . . . .

Originally posted by kish


1. Can Muslims show where Allah's name was first used outside the Quran?

2. Did Muhammad's father prey to Allah?

3. How about Ishmael and his sons, who did they prey to


Why Muslims shy away from these simple basic questions is beyond my comprehension, but nice try in avoiding them.

Not answering them only confirms one thing, Allah is and was ONLY the god of Muhammad and his father, which is fine if you're Muslim and you are Muslim.

Kish




Edited by Kish - 17 September 2012 at 7:15pm]]> Mon, 17 Sep 2012 19:03:16 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167862#167862 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167841#167841 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 17 September 2012 at 10:52am

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by honeto

The reason we here sometimes use Biblical quotes is for those of you who do not take Quran as authority.


However, if Muslims themselves would take the Quran as authority they would believe in the Tevrat, Zebur and Injil and prove themselves right because all these books proves everything about Jesus birth, death and resurrection, it's only the Quran that disagrees because the Quran is the first book for Muslims.

Originally posted by honeto

Like in case of Jesus being God you claimed,


Like myself, not all Christians believe that Jesus is All Mighty God so I never claimed that, you assumed. He is God son which Jesus and God himself testifies to, not Muhammad.

That is why Muhammad's god and Jesus God are not the same God as I have been saying all along. It's Muslims who wish that to be true not Christians or Jews

Yet you provide not one piece of truth to support this claim.

Originally posted by honeto

In the case of if God's name is Jehovah, Yahweh, or YHWH, I have shown a verse where Jesus is quoted to have cried to God as "Allah" in the Bible.


One verse, where? Muslims don't accept that it was Jesus who was crucified in the first place, so where is that proof? And how do you account for all the other hundreds of times where Jesus said Jehovah against your one time verse that you can't even prove? Just because Muslims say or believe it does not make it truth. No proof! No truth!

Muslims can't even show where Allah's name was first used outside the Quran by any righteous person at all, only Muhammad, what does that honestly tell you, honestly?

Did Muhammad's father at least prey to Allah?
How about Ishmael and his sons, who did they prey to? If this is what Islam teaches at least have sufficient evidence before telling the world that Allah is the same as the God of Israel or that it was an impostor and not Jesus who was crucified. This is blasphemous and a very dangerous position to be in on judgement day.

I'll wait for you answers . . .

Kish


Kish,
I think you have been confused about the issue of OT and NT and how Muslims believe them.
First I have in the past explained why we use it here at the forum. Simply because some of you don't want to take the Quran seriously. In Islam we are very clear about the status of the two. We believe all the prophets and books mentioned in the Quran, including the Taurat and Injeel were sent by God and we believe in them to be the true word of God when they were sent, each for their time.
3:2 (Y. Ali) Allah. There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal
3:3 (Y. Ali) It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).
Please read it carefully and repeatedly and its meaning will clarify that each of those books were sent in the past for there time. And remember the verse 3:2 is the key, that is the fundamental belief and that belief has never changed since Adam to Mohammed (pbut).

We also have learned through Quran that God sent a new messenger when people left the true belief or changed what God taught reinstating the original belief.
5:12 (Y. Ali) Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And Allah said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my apostles, honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude."
5:13 (Y. Ali) But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.
5:14 (Y. Ali) From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.
5:15 (Y. Ali) O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,-

As far as Jesus crying to God as "Allah", it is simple because that quote is the only place where Jesus' words are quoted in his native language (Aramaic). The rest of where God is addressed with other names is simply translation into either Greek, Roman, or Hebrew. And the only reason we use that Bible quote is for those who disbelieve that Quran is the Final word from God, like yourself. We don't need to look into something that does not have an original, that has been rewritten and only exists as different versions without an original. Why would anyone in their sound mind do that? go backwards?
It's beyond my comprehension.

Hasan






Edited by honeto - 17 September 2012 at 11:14am]]> Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:52:38 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167841#167841 God’s written instructions for life. : Just as I figured from you, no... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167811#167811 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 16 September 2012 at 7:40pm

Just as I figured from you, no answers and no proof. I answer all of your questions with solid proof but none of you can answer any of my easy basic fundamental questions of Islam's god, Allah.

I'll be glad to continue to answer your questions only after you answer mines.

Originally posted by iec786

You ask of questions outside Islam to prove Islam.


1. Can Muslims show where Allah's name was first used outside the Quran?

2. Did Muhammad's father prey to Allah?

3. How about Ishmael and his sons, who did they prey to?

If these questions are outside Islam and no one can prove Islam by answering them Then Islam Is On A Sinking Ship!!!

Islam god is not the same God as the God of Israel! The God of Moses! And the God of Abraham!

For that I truly feel sorry for you.


Edited by Kish - 16 September 2012 at 7:42pm]]> Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:40:15 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167811#167811 God’s written instructions for life. : does Abraham have a god???? What... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167724#167724 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 14 September 2012 at 10:20pm

does Abraham have a god????

What documents do you have that he had a God?did Jesus have a god ????

you ask st**id questions.

You ask of questions outside Islam to prove Islam.

]]> Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:20:42 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167724#167724 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by honetoThe... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167723#167723 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 14 September 2012 at 9:56pm

Originally posted by honeto

The reason we here sometimes use Biblical quotes is for those of you who do not take Quran as authority.


However, if Muslims themselves would take the Quran as authority they would believe in the Tevrat, Zebur and Injil and prove themselves right because all these books proves everything about Jesus birth, death and resurrection, it's only the Quran that disagrees because the Quran is the first book for Muslims.

Originally posted by honeto

Like in case of Jesus being God you claimed,


Like myself, not all Christians believe that Jesus is All Mighty God so I never claimed that, you assumed. He is God son which Jesus and God himself testifies to, not Muhammad.

That is why Muhammad's god and Jesus God are not the same God as I have been saying all along. It's Muslims who wish that to be true not Christians or Jews

Yet you provide not one piece of truth to support this claim.

Originally posted by honeto

In the case of if God's name is Jehovah, Yahweh, or YHWH, I have shown a verse where Jesus is quoted to have cried to God as "Allah" in the Bible.


One verse, where? Muslims don't accept that it was Jesus who was crucified in the first place, so where is that proof? And how do you account for all the other hundreds of times where Jesus said Jehovah against your one time verse that you can't even prove? Just because Muslims say or believe it does not make it truth. No proof! No truth!

Muslims can't even show where Allah's name was first used outside the Quran by any righteous person at all, only Muhammad, what does that honestly tell you, honestly?

Did Muhammad's father at least prey to Allah?
How about Ishmael and his sons, who did they prey to? If this is what Islam teaches at least have sufficient evidence before telling the world that Allah is the same as the God of Israel or that it was an impostor and not Jesus who was crucified. This is blasphemous and a very dangerous position to be in on judgement day.

I'll wait for you answers . . .

Kish


Edited by Kish - 14 September 2012 at 10:03pm]]> Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:56:13 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167723#167723 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by iec786Mmmmmm... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167719#167719 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 14 September 2012 at 9:07pm

Originally posted by iec786

Mmmmmm Kish,I will be giving you an answer as soon as i receive an email from God as to the date and time he was first called Allah.I will answer you as soon as i receive the answer.


I take that as a no! You have no documents, no history, no archaeological evidence, not even a person outside the Quran to prove that Islam's god is the same as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Perhaps Muslims just refuse to accept the origin of that name and tries to associate it with the God of Israel or Moses God (YHWH) Jehovah without any history to prove it and you believe it.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Can you at least tell us who was the first Prophet who said Allah since Jesus, Moses or Abraham never ever said it?

Can you at least show me where Ishmael or his sons mentioned Allah, surely they must have, no?


   

Edited by Kish - 14 September 2012 at 9:09pm]]> Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:07:45 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167719#167719 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish, sorry was busy, but not... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167526#167526 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 10 September 2012 at 3:45pm

Kish,
sorry was busy, but not at all. I am a firm believer in the Quran thus believe that God raised Jesus (pbuh) to Himself, "they certainly did not kill him"
The reason we here sometimes use Biblical quotes is for those of you who do not take Quran as authority. So we use it against you, to prove you wrong, from your own book, the Bible.
Like in case of Jesus being God you claimed, it shows Jesus has a God, as I pointed out where he says " I am going to my father and your father, and my God and your God.
In the case of if God's name is Jehovah, Yahweh, or YHWH, I have shown a verse where Jesus is quoted to have cried to God as "Allah" in the Bible. This is not because I need it or of anything else but to show those of you who believe it to be God's word that in time of need, according to the Bible, Jesus did not cry God's any other name but "Allah".
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 10 September 2012 at 3:49pm]]> Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:45:48 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167526#167526 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish&lt;P... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167517#167517 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 10 September 2012 at 9:15am

Originally posted by Kish

<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin" lang=EN><FONT face=Calibri>i.e.c.-786, I don't mind answering your question with historical proof and data of Jesus birth, death and resurrection along with who eye-witness it but it's only proper that you follow through what I asked you first and provide the Data rather than not answer my question at all. '


 

Since the begining of time' as you say is not PROOF<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><O:P></O:P></SPAN>

<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin" lang=EN><FONT face=Calibri> <O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin" lang=EN>
Originally posted by kish

</SPAN><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-ansi-: EN; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin" lang=EN>. . . question for you though and anyone else who would like to try and answer, when was the name Allah used outside the Quran?  . . . Was Jesus crucified? Proof this time, but I don’t suspect an answer.  
</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin" lang=EN><O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-ansi-: EN; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin" lang=EN><FONT face=Calibri>. . . and still no answer with historical proof, dates, eye-witnesses and by who, why is that? Is it because Islam has no foundation outside Muhammad, I'm just saying?<O:P></O:P></SPAN>





Mmmmmm Kish,I will be giving you an answer as soon as i receive an email from God as to the date and time he was first called Allah.I will answer you as soon as i receive the answer. ]]> Mon, 10 Sep 2012 09:15:00 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167517#167517 God’s written instructions for life. : Ohhhhh Hasan where are you whereis... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167441#167441 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 September 2012 at 11:11am

Ohhhhh Hasan where are you where is your answer?
 
Originally posted by kish

Hasan, are you now saying that Jesus died on a torture stake and that it was not an imposter like muslims wish to think, your response please?


Edited by Kish - 07 September 2012 at 11:11am]]> Fri, 07 Sep 2012 11:11:01 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167441#167441 God’s written instructions for life. : i.e.c.-786, I don&#039;t mind... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167438#167438 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 September 2012 at 7:18am

i.e.c.-786, I don't mind answering your question with historical proof and data of Jesus birth, death and resurrection along with who eye-witness it but it's only proper that you follow through what I asked you first and provide the Data rather than not answer my question at all. '

 
Since the begining of time' as you say is not PROOF

 

Originally posted by kish

. . . question for you though and anyone else who would like to try and answer, when was the name Allah used outside the Quran?  . . . Was Jesus crucified? Proof this time, but I don’t suspect an answer.  

. . . and still no answer with historical proof, dates, eye-witnesses and by who, why is that? Is it because Islam has no foundation outside Muhammad, I'm just saying?



Edited by Kish - 07 September 2012 at 7:31am]]> Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:18:47 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167438#167438 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kishiec,... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167350#167350 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 05 September 2012 at 8:42am

Originally posted by Kish

iec, you can't even explain when allah name was mentioned outside the Quran with a name, date and by who? Shame on you.Hasan, are you now saying that Jesus died on a torture stake and that it was not an imposter like muslims wish to think, your response please?  




The word Allah existed from the beginning of time.

Kish when was Jesus born date and time????i will be awaiting your answer.Oh and while you at it can you tell us the day date time of his death and who seen him die?just remember all his disciples forsook him and fled.All of them ran away shoosh. ]]> Wed, 05 Sep 2012 08:42:25 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167350#167350 God’s written instructions for life. : iec, you can&#039;t even explain... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167182#167182 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 31 August 2012 at 1:43pm

iec, you can't even explain when allah name was mentioned outside the Quran with a name, date and by who? Shame on you.

Hasan, are you now saying that Jesus died on a torture stake and that it was not an imposter like muslims wish to think, your response please?  ]]> Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:43:54 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167182#167182 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish, are you afraid to look... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167137#167137 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 29 August 2012 at 1:59pm

Kish,
are you afraid to look at Mark 15:34.
As I said, only in time of real hurt when little you msut have cried " mommy mommy" right.
When an adult is in pain or hurt, the ones who know God, cry to not their mommy anymore, they cry to Allah, God,and Eloh.
In the Bible there are only a few places, may be one or two, where original language (Aramaic in this case) are used. This is where Jesus (pbuh) was in pain, as the Jews try to kill him, and look at his cry: was it Jehovah? No, was it YAWAh? no Was is Allah? Yes.
According to Wikipedia: "Some scholars believe Elahi may be the name of God that Jesus vocalized in his last words on the cross. Science historian Livio Catullo Stecchini and Jan Sammer write, "The limits of Mark‘s knowledge of Hebrew are revealed by the sentence Eloi Eloi Lama Sabachthani which he puts into the mouth of Jesus. It is a confused rendering into Greek lettering of the text of Psalm 22:2, which reads in Hebrew eli eli lama azabtani and in Aramaic elahi elahi lema sebaqtani"
Elah is same as Allah. Only it seems that to make is look different those who when writing it into Latin languages spelled it so it do not look like 'Allah' even though it sounds exactly like it.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 29 August 2012 at 2:02pm]]> Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:59:33 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167137#167137 God’s written instructions for life. : when was the name Allah used outside... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167103#167103 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 28 August 2012 at 11:06pm

when was the name Allah used outside the Quran? Proof this time, but I don’t suspect an answer.



http://www.answering-christianity.com/allah4.htm]]> Tue, 28 Aug 2012 23:06:39 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167103#167103 God’s written instructions for life. : &lt;&gt; &lt;&gt; ... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167083#167083 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 27 August 2012 at 7:43pm

Originally posted by iec786

WHO IS JEHOVAH?
Astonishing as it may sound, it is an admitted fact that prior to the sixteenth
century, the word "Jehovah," was unheard of.

Unheard of to those like yourself who never read the HolyScriptures but at least you support the Jews in your argument, now that’sunheard of!!!? But, rather than believe everything you hear read for yourselffor a change, start here my friend. Oh yea, I’ll even add references for you somethingthat you lacked to support your false claims about the name Jehovah.

According to a report in the Israel ExplorationJournal (Volume 13, No. 2). On its walls were Hebrew inscriptionsthat appear to date from the second half of the Eighth Century B.C.E.The inscriptions contain statements such as “Jehovah is the God of the wholeearth.”

In the Israel Exploration Journal(Volume 16, No. 1) about pottery fragments with Hebrew writing on them thatwere found in Arad, in southern Israel. These were written in the second halfof the seventh century B.C.E. One of them was a private letter to a man namedEliashib. The letter begins: “To my lord Eliashib: May Jehovah ask for yourpeace.” And it ends: “He dwells in the house of Jehovah.”

Archaeologists working in the Negeb uncovered acollection of Hebrew and Phoenician inscriptions on plaster walls, largestorage jars and stone vessels. The inscriptions included the Hebrew word forGod, as well as God’s name, YHWH, in Hebrew letters. In Jerusalem itself, therewas recently discovered a small, rolled-up strip of silver, apparently datingfrom before the Babylonian exile. Researchers say that when it was unrolled,the name of Jehovah in Hebrew was found to be written on it.—Biblical ArchaeologyReview, March/April 1983, page 18.

Even pagan rulers knew and used the divine name whenreferring to the God of the Israelites. Thus, on the Moabite Stone, King Meshaof Moab boasts of his military exploits against Israel and, among other things,states: “Chemosh said to me, ‘Go, take Nebo from Israel!’ So I went by nightand fought against it from the break of dawn until noon, taking it and slayingall . . . And I took from there the [vessels] of Jehovah, draggingthem before Chemosh.”

Originally posted by iec786

If Jehovah is the name of GodAlmighty, and if the 27 Books of the New
Testament were inspired by Him, then it is an anomaly of the highest order,
that He (Jehovah) signally failed to have His Own Name recorded in "His
Word" (N.T.)

Dahhh, see the post before yours man and click on a link.

Originally posted by iec786

. . . Since the Jews did notarticulate the
word YHWH for centuries . . . YHWH or Yehova or Yahuwa all mean thevery same thing. "Ya" is a vocative and an exclamatory particle inboth Hebrew and Arabic, meaning Oh! And "Huwa" or "Hu"means He, again in both Hebrew and Arabic. Together they mean Oh He! So insteadof YHWH ELOHIM, we now have Oh He! ELOHIM.

 

First son, what’s of importance is that ALL the trueProphets used God’s name including Jesus Christ! That is one of the many waysof a true Prophet, he comes in the NAME of God, remember?

Deut. 18:18-20: “A prophet I shall raise up for them fromthe midst of their brothers, like you [like Moses]; and I shall indeed put mywords in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shallcommand him. And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my wordsthat he will speak in my name, I shall myself require an account from him . . .

Also, the name is a form of a Hebrew verb ha·wah′(הוה), meaning “to become,” and actually signifies “He Causes to Become.” Thus,God’s name identifies him as the One who progressively fulfills his promisesand unfailingly realizes his purposes. Only the true God Jehovah couldbear such a meaningful name.

One question for you though and anyone else whowould like to try and answer, when was the name Allah used outside the Quran?Proof this time, but I don’t suspect an answer.


]]> Mon, 27 Aug 2012 19:43:04 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=167083#167083 God’s written instructions for life. : WHO IS JEHOVAH? Astonishing... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=165285#165285 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 09 July 2012 at 9:59pm





WHO IS JEHOVAH?
Astonishing as it may sound, it is an admitted fact that prior to the sixteenth
century, the word "Jehovah," was unheard of. Whenever the origin of this
word appeared in its true Hebrew form in Jewish Scriptures (read from
right to left as in Arabic) Yot, Huh, Wav, Huh; or Y.H.W.H. or
these four letters were preceded by a substitute word "Adonai," to warn the
reader that the following word was not to be articulated. The Jews took
meticulous care in repeating this exercise in their "Book of God" six
thousand, eight hundred and twenty-three times - interpolating the words
"Adonai" or "Elohim." They sincerely believed that this awesome name of
God was never to be pronounced. This prohibition was no ordinary affair: it
called for a penalty of death on one who dared to utter it, and this taboo has
been more successful than all the "DO's" and "DON'T's" of the Ten
Commandments put together.
If Jehovah is the name of God Almighty, and if the 27 Books of the New
Testament were inspired by Him, then it is an anomaly of the highest order,
that He (Jehovah) signally failed to have His Own Name recorded in "His
Word" (N.T.) - the Christian addition to the Jewish Bible. The Christians
claim that they have in their possession over twenty-four thousand so-called
"originals" of their Holy Writ in the Greek language, and yet not a single
parchment has "Jehovah" written in it. Curiously this "name of God" (?) has
been sacrilegiously replaced by the Greek words ky'ri.os and the.os', which
mean 'Lord' and 'God.' Yet, miracle of miracles - Alleluya! - no devil or saint
has been able to eliminate the word "ALLAH" from the so-called New
Testament of the Christians.
1
NEW FANGLED DOCTRINES
A hundred years ago, all of a sudden, more than a hundred new cults and
denominations of Christiandom mushroomed in the United States of America.
The Seventh Day Adventists, the Christian Scientists, the Menonites, the
Christiadelphins, The Jehovah's Witnesses and the like. The founder of the
last named cult, a Judge Rutherford, about whom the orthodox Christians
say that he was no "Judge." This Judge was a voracious book-worm and a
prolific writer. He stumbled across the word "Jehovah" which tickled him
immensely, and he made a religion out of it.
Judge Rutherford, followed by Charles T. Russell created a new "church,"
which in its system of organisation and administration in second to none in
the world. There is very much we Muslims can learn from their enthusiasm
and methodology. Read, "Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave" by Schelin.
It is not their theology I am enamoured with but their modus operandi.
1
Read, how this incorrigible sect came very close to conquering Germany
before Hitler. Read, about their second comeback in West Germany. Think,
why they are making a most concerted effort in Nigeria.
2
Will the system or
religion that prevails in Nigeria, be utlimately the norm of the rest of Africa?
This giant is the hero of the majority of the African people south of the
Sahara. Muslims must reflect.
VIRILE SECT
The "Jehovah's Witnesses," have made the most phenominal progress of all
the religious sects of the past hundred years, on a percentage basis. The
Bahaies are moving at a snails-pace in comparison, actually receding in ratio
with the other Christian off-shoots. These "Witnesses" are the fittest in their
fight against the other Christians as well as against the Muslims. Simply
because they programme themselves five times a week in their "Kingdom
Halls," and what they learn they implement They have made the word JEHOVAH famous. They knock at people's doors,
asking the question - "What is His Name?" The orthodox Christian replies -
"God." They say, "God is not a name, it is an object of worship. What's His
Name?" "Father," says the orthodox as a second try. "Is your father God?" Of
course not! So what is His Name? "JEHOVAH! is His Name," says the
"Witness" to both Muslims and non-Muslims alike. He has become a
professor of this one word. He has made it into a religion.
THE "TETRAGRAMMATON"
Why not for a change ask him, a question or two. Ask him where he got the
word Jehovah from? He will surely reply - "From the Holy Bible." What does
it say? Does it spell out the word J-e-h-o-v-a-h? "No," he will reply. "There
is a 'tetragrammaton' in the Bible from which the word Jehovah is
derived." What is a tetragrammaton? No one seems to have heard this highly
mystical term. In the University of Illinois in the U.S.A. I asked a gathering
of students and lecturers whether any one had heard this jaw-breaker? Not
one of them knew its meaning! But every Jehovah's Witness seems to know,
even the commonest of them. They have really specialised - ours is a world
of specialisation. They are Professors of the one word - Jehovah.
What then is a"tetragrammaton?" The Jehovah's Witness replies, "Y H W H!"
"No!" "What I want to know from you is, what does the word
tetragrarnmaton mean?" You will find him most reluctant in explaining.
Either he does not really know, or he is feeling embarrassed in replying.
"Tetra," in Greek means FOUR, and "grammaton," means LETTERS. It
simply means "a four letter word."
Can you read into Y H W H the word Jehovah? I cannot. "No!", says the
Jehovah's Witness, "we ought to add
vowels to these four consonents to produce the sound. Originally, both
Hebrew and Arabic were written without the vowel signs. The native of each
language was able to read if even without those vowels. Not so the outsider,
for whose benefit the vowels were invented.
THE "J" SICKNESS
Let us add the vowels as the "Witness" suggests. YHWH becomes YeHoWaH.
Juggle as you like but you can never materialise Jehovah! Ask him, from
which hat he drew his "J". He will tell you that "this is the 'popular'
pronunciation from the 16th century." The exact sound of the four letters
YHWH is known neither to the Jews nor to the Gentiles, yet he is ramming
JEHOVAH down everyones throats. The European Christians have developed
a fondness (sickness) for the letter "J." They add J's where there are no Jays.
Look!
There is no end to the Westerner's infatuation for the letter "J." Now in the
busy streets of South Africa, he charges people who carelessly cross them
for "jaywalking," but nobody charges him for converting Jewish (Yehudi)
names into Gentile names.
The letters Y H W H occur in the Hebrew (Jewish) Scriptures 6 823 times,
boasts the Jehovah's Witness, and it occurs in combination with the word
"Elohim;" 156 times in the booklet called Genesis alone. This combination
YHWH/ELOHIM has been consistently translated in the English Bible as "Lord
God," "Lord God," Lord God," ad infinitum.

COMMON ORIGIN
What is YHWH; and what is ELOHIM? Since the Jews did not articulate the
word YHWH for centuries, and since even the Chief Rabbis would not allow
the ineffable to be heard, they have forfeited the right to claim dogmatically
how the word is to be sounded. We have to seek the aid of the Arab to
revive Hebrew, a language which had once died out. In every linguistic
difficulty recourse has to be made to Arabic, a sister language, which has
remained alive and viable. Racially and linguistically, the Arabs and the Jews
have a common origin, going back to Father Abraham.
1
Note the startling resemblance between the two languages, very often the
same sounding words carry identical meaning in both.
HEBREW ARABIC ENGLISH
Elah Ilah god
Ikhud Ahud one
Yaum Yaum day
Shaloam Salaam peace
Yahuwa Ya Huwa oh he

YHWH or Yehova or Yahuwa all mean the very same thing. "Ya" is a vocative
and an exclamatory particle in both Hebrew and Arabic, meaning Oh! And
"Huwa" or "Hu" means He, again in both Hebrew and Arabic. Together they
mean Oh He! So instead of YHWH ELOHIM, we now have Oh He! ELOHIM.
















Edited by iec786 - 09 July 2012 at 10:01pm]]> Mon, 09 Jul 2012 21:59:05 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=165285#165285 God’s written instructions for life. : &lt;&gt; ... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=165243#165243 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 08 July 2012 at 1:09pm

 

Originally posted by kish

Do you know the meaning of Jesus name?

What did Moses and Jesus say God’s name was . . . ?

Afraid to answer I see, I asked this question nearly twomonths ago and still no answer so I’ll provide it for you honeto and iec786.

The name (Je′sus) means “Jehovah Is Salvation”. Why am I not surprised!

Moses - Deuteronomy 32:3 says this

Jesus - John 17:6, 26 says this

What did God say his name was? Exodus 6:3 says this

Jesus Christ madeclear that Moses had written about him, for on one occasion he told hisopponents: “If you believed Moses you would believe me, for that one wroteabout me.” (John 5:46)

Moses wrote aboutJesus and Jesus confirms that Moses wrote about him.

Moses, Jesus oranyone in the Holy Scriptures did not write or say anything about Muhammad, despitewhat scripture they TRY to use to fit, why is that? Because Muhammad’s teachingare not from Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Psalms 83:18 says That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.



Edited by Kish - 08 July 2012 at 1:25pm]]> Sun, 08 Jul 2012 13:09:23 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=165243#165243 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=164060#164060 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 16 May 2012 at 8:12pm

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by honeto

Kish,
did you close your eyes or looked side ways to my quote of Mark 15:34?


Everyone knows Jesus is here saying “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” God is not a name but a title. But do you know what Jesus name means?

Jesus’ own name means “Jehovah Is Salvation.” He stated: “I have come in the name of my Father” (Joh 5:43); he taught his followers to pray: “Our Father in the heavens, let your namebe sanctified” (Mt 6:9); his works, he said, were done “in the nameof my Father” (Joh 10:25); and, in prayer on the night of his death, he said he had made his Father’s namemanifest to his disciples and asked, “Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name” (Joh 17:6, 11, 12, 26)

Certainly if Jesus has a name so does his father. Just as Jesus name is not “SON” his father’s name is not “GOD” these are titles.

Again . . .

What did Moses and Jesus say God’s name was, Eli, my God? No. But I think you know the answer YHWH or Jehovah with the vowels in English.

Ps 83:18 says this
 
Kish,
 according to that quote, Jesus dit not cry "God or Jehovah" which may be translations instead. According to the quotes of Bible I mentioned the words came out of his mouth were:
"Eloi, Eloi".
sounds just like a true beleiver's call, a Muslim's call to God:  Allah-e Allah.
You know Kish, you probably know this when you were little, and got hurt, and cried, what was your cry: "Mamee, mamee", naturally. Jesus, when he was really in pain and hurt and cried out loud to his maker, his God, for help. He called him with the same name, we Muslims call him today and the believer's called Him always: Allah, so his cries clearly reflect the true name he knew of God. Mark 15:34 is more clear than all your explanations and prove you wrong in your assumptions this time again.
Hasan
]]> Wed, 16 May 2012 20:12:59 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=164060#164060 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish please do not make me a lire,look... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=164052#164052 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 16 May 2012 at 9:14am

Kish please do not make me a lire,look at the post above mine. ]]> Wed, 16 May 2012 09:14:21 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=164052#164052 God’s written instructions for life. : iec, I never said any of that.... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=164037#164037 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 15 May 2012 at 9:55am

iec, I never said any of that. But you still have not answered the Question(s) relavent to this post. Whjen cornered you never answer my questions.
 
Do you know the meaning of Jesus name?

What did Moses and Jesus say God’s name was, Eli, my God?
]]> Tue, 15 May 2012 09:55:15 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=164037#164037 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=164026#164026 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 14 May 2012 at 8:31am

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by honeto

Kish,
did you close your eyes or looked side ways to my quote of Mark 15:34?


Everyone knows Jesus is here saying “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” God is not a name but a title. But do you know what Jesus name means?

Jesus’ own name means “Jehovah Is Salvation.” He stated: “I have come in the name of my Father” (Joh 5:43); he taught his followers to pray: “Our Father in the heavens, let your namebe sanctified” (Mt 6:9); his works, he said, were done “in the nameof my Father” (Joh 10:25); and, in prayer on the night of his death, he said he had made his Father’s namemanifest to his disciples and asked, “Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name” (Joh 17:6, 11, 12, 26)

Certainly if Jesus has a name so does his father. Just as Jesus name is not “SON” his father’s name is not “GOD” these are titles.

Again . . .

What did Moses and Jesus say God’s name was, Eli, my God? No. But I think you know the answer YHWH or Jehovah with the vowels in English.

Ps 83:18 says this









Where does Jesus say he is Jehovah or where does he say worship me or where does Jesus say he is the Father????????? ]]> Mon, 14 May 2012 08:31:37 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=164026#164026 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by honetoKish, did... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=164008#164008 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 13 May 2012 at 5:54pm

Originally posted by honeto

Kish,
did you close your eyes or looked side ways to my quote of Mark 15:34?


Everyone knows Jesus is here saying “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” God is not a name but a title. But do you know what Jesus name means?

Jesus’ own name means “Jehovah Is Salvation.” He stated: “I have come in the name of my Father” (Joh 5:43); he taught his followers to pray: “Our Father in the heavens, let your namebe sanctified” (Mt 6:9); his works, he said, were done “in the nameof my Father” (Joh 10:25); and, in prayer on the night of his death, he said he had made his Father’s namemanifest to his disciples and asked, “Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name” (Joh 17:6, 11, 12, 26)

Certainly if Jesus has a name so does his father. Just as Jesus name is not “SON” his father’s name is not “GOD” these are titles.

Again . . .

What did Moses and Jesus say God’s name was, Eli, my God? No. But I think you know the answer YHWH or Jehovah with the vowels in English.

Ps 83:18 says this


Edited by Kish - 13 May 2012 at 5:56pm]]> Sun, 13 May 2012 17:54:43 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=164008#164008 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish, did you close your eyes... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163993#163993 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 12 May 2012 at 8:12pm

Kish,
did you close your eyes or looked side ways to my quote of Mark 15:34?
I just wonder which one, thanks,
Hasan
]]> Sat, 12 May 2012 20:12:18 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163993#163993 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by kishDear... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163967#163967 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 11 May 2012 at 4:50am

Originally posted by kish

Dear Hasan, please tell me what did Moses say God's name was?

Moses, Jesus and all the Prophets except Muhammad used the NAME of God in Hebrew (YHWH) English Jehovah, why is that?

 

With all that being said you still did not answer my question, just as I knew you would not.

 

What did Moses and Jesus say God’s name was? Don’t try to change the subject because some Jews out of superstition failed to pronounce God’s name and then ultimately tried to removed it from the scriptures.

 

]]> Fri, 11 May 2012 04:50:59 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163967#163967 God’s written instructions for life. : Say, &#034;Call upon Allah or... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163943#163943 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 09 May 2012 at 11:02pm

Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." And do not recite [too] loudly in your prayer or [too] quietly but seek between that an [intermediate] way.



WHO IS JEHOVAH?
Astonishing as it may sound, it is an admitted fact that prior to the sixteenth
century, the word "Jehovah," was unheard of. Whenever the origin of this
word appeared in its true Hebrew form in Jewish Scriptures (read from
right to left as in Arabic) Yot, Huh, Wav, Huh; or Y.H.W.H. or
these four letters were preceded by a substitute word "Adonai," to warn the
reader that the following word was not to be articulated. The Jews took
meticulous care in repeating this exercise in their "Book of God" six
thousand, eight hundred and twenty-three times - interpolating the words
"Adonai" or "Elohim." They sincerely believed that this awesome name of
God was never to be pronounced. This prohibition was no ordinary affair: it
called for a penalty of death on one who dared to utter it, and this taboo has
been more successful than all the "DO's" and "DON'T's" of the Ten
Commandments put together.
If Jehovah is the name of God Almighty, and if the 27 Books of the New
Testament were inspired by Him, then it is an anomaly of the highest order,
that He (Jehovah) signally failed to have His Own Name recorded in "His
Word" (N.T.) - the Christian addition to the Jewish Bible. The Christians
claim that they have in their possession over twenty-four thousand so-called
"originals" of their Holy Writ in the Greek language, and yet not a single
parchment has "Jehovah" written in it. Curiously this "name of God" (?) has
been sacrilegiously replaced by the Greek words ky'ri.os and the.os', which
mean 'Lord' and 'God.' Yet, miracle of miracles - Alleluya! - no devil or saint
has been able to eliminate the word "ALLAH" from the so-called New
Testament of the Christians.
1


NEW FANGLED DOCTRINES
A hundred years ago, all of a sudden, more than a hundred new cults and
denominations of Christiandom mushroomed in the United States of America.
The Seventh Day Adventists, the Christian Scientists, the Menonites, the
Christiadelphins, The Jehovah's Witnesses and the like. The founder of the
last named cult, a Judge Rutherford, about whom the orthodox Christians
say that he was no "Judge." This Judge was a voracious book-worm and a
prolific writer. He stumbled across the word "Jehovah" which tickled him
immensely, and he made a religion out of it.
Judge Rutherford, followed by Charles T. Russell created a new "church,"
which in its system of organisation and administration in second to none in
the world. There is very much we Muslims can learn from their enthusiasm
and methodology. Read, "Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave" by Schelin.
It is not their theology I am enamoured with but their modus operandi.
1
Read, how this incorrigible sect came very close to conquering Germany
before Hitler. Read, about their second comeback in West Germany. Think,
why they are making a most concerted effort in Nigeria.
2
Will the system or
religion that prevails in Nigeria, be utlimately the norm of the rest of Africa?
This giant is the hero of the majority of the African people south of the
Sahara. Muslims must reflect.
VIRILE SECT
The "Jehovah's Witnesses," have made the most phenominal progress of all
the religious sects of the past hundred years, on a percentage basis. The
Bahaies are moving at a snails-pace in comparison, actually receding in ratio
with the other Christian off-shoots. These "Witnesses" are the fittest in their
fight against the other Christians as well as against the Muslims. Simply
because they programme themselves five times a week in their "Kingdom
Halls," and what they learn they implement

during the week-ends. We Muslims are supposed to be "programmed" five
times a day in our daily Salaat, but we have lost the true purpose of this
Pillar of Islam. Our Salaat is for earning Sawaab (spiritual blessings) only.
They have made the word JEHOVAH famous. They knock at people's doors,
asking the question - "What is His Name?" The orthodox Christian replies -
"God." They say, "God is not a name, it is an object of worship. What's His
Name?" "Father," says the orthodox as a second try. "Is your father God?" Of
course not! So what is His Name? "JEHOVAH! is His Name," says the
"Witness" to both Muslims and non-Muslims alike. He has become a
professor of this one word. He has made it into a religion.
THE "TETRAGRAMMATON"
Why not for a change ask him, a question or two. Ask him where he got the
word Jehovah from? He will surely reply - "From the Holy Bible." What does
it say? Does it spell out the word J-e-h-o-v-a-h? "No," he will reply. "There
is a 'tetragrammaton' in the Bible from which the word Jehovah is
derived." What is a tetragrammaton? No one seems to have heard this highly
mystical term. In the University of Illinois in the U.S.A. I asked a gathering
of students and lecturers whether any one had heard this jaw-breaker? Not
one of them knew its meaning! But every Jehovah's Witness seems to know,
even the commonest of them. They have really specialised - ours is a world
of specialisation. They are Professors of the one word - Jehovah.
What then is a"tetragrammaton?" The Jehovah's Witness replies, "Y H W H!"
"No!" "What I want to know from you is, what does the word
tetragrarnmaton mean?" You will find him most reluctant in explaining.
Either he does not really know, or he is feeling embarrassed in replying.
"Tetra," in Greek means FOUR, and "grammaton," means LETTERS. It
simply means "a four letter word."
Can you read into Y H W H the word Jehovah? I cannot. "No!", says the
Jehovah's Witness, "we ought to add




vowels to these four consonents to produce the sound. Originally, both
Hebrew and Arabic were written without the vowel signs. The native of each
language was able to read if even without those vowels. Not so the outsider,
for whose benefit the vowels were invented.
THE "J" SICKNESS
Let us add the vowels as the "Witness" suggests. YHWH becomes YeHoWaH.
Juggle as you like but you can never materialise Jehovah! Ask him, from
which hat he drew his "J". He will tell you that "this is the 'popular'
pronunciation from the 16th century." The exact sound of the four letters
YHWH is known neither to the Jews nor to the Gentiles, yet he is ramming
JEHOVAH down everyones throats. The European Christians have developed
a fondness (sickness) for the letter "J." They add J's where there are no Jays.
Look!
There is no end to the Westerner's infatuation for the letter "J." Now in the
busy streets of South Africa, he charges people who carelessly cross them
for "jaywalking," but nobody charges him for converting Jewish (Yehudi)
names into Gentile names.
The letters Y H W H occur in the Hebrew (Jewish) Scriptures 6 823 times,
boasts the Jehovah's Witness, and it occurs in combination with the word
"Elohim;" 156 times in the booklet called Genesis alone. This combination
YHWH/ELOHIM has been consistently translated in the English Bible as "Lord
God," "Lord God," Lord God," ad infinitum.


COMMON ORIGIN
What is YHWH; and what is ELOHIM? Since the Jews did not articulate the
word YHWH for centuries, and since even the Chief Rabbis would not allow
the ineffable to be heard, they have forfeited the right to claim dogmatically
how the word is to be sounded. We have to seek the aid of the Arab to
revive Hebrew, a language which had once died out. In every linguistic
difficulty recourse has to be made to Arabic, a sister language, which has
remained alive and viable. Racially and linguistically, the Arabs and the Jews
have a common origin, going back to Father Abraham.
1
Note the startling resemblance between the two languages, very often the
same sounding words carry identical meaning in both.
YHWH or Yehova or Yahuwa all mean the very same thing. "Ya" is a vocative
and an exclamatory particle in both Hebrew and Arabic, meaning Oh! And
"Huwa" or "Hu" means He, again in both Hebrew and Arabic. Together they
mean Oh He! So instead of YHWH ELOHIM, we now have Oh He! ELOHIM.
What is His name? Page 25
HEBREW ARABIC ENGLISH
Elah Ilah god
Ikhud Ahud one
Yaum Yaum day
Shaloam Salaam peace
Yahuwa Ya Huwa oh he
1. For a closer affinity between Arabs and


]]> Wed, 09 May 2012 23:02:09 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163943#163943 God’s written instructions for life. : Dear Hasan, please tell me what... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163922#163922 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 08 May 2012 at 2:18pm

Dear Hasan, please tell me what did Moses say God's name was?

Moses, Jesus and all the Prophets except Muhammad used the NAME of God in Hebrew (YHWH) English Jehovah, why is that?

Jehovah” is the best known English pronunciation of the divine name, “Yahweh” is favored by most Hebrew scholars. The oldest Hebrew manuscripts present the name in the form of four consonants, commonly called the Tetragrammaton (from Greek te·tra-, meaning “four,” and gram′ma, “letter”). These four letters (written from right to left) are יהוה and may be transliterated into English as YHWH (or, JHVH).

Secondly, God, Lord, King, Creator, Allah etc. are not names they are Titles there is a difference, look it up.

Exodus. 3:15 This is what God told Moses his name was

I'm not going to argue and Disagree with God and Agree with Muhammad or what any man says God's name is, I love life to much. Do you believe Man over God?

To bad for the man who does.

Kish



Edited by Kish - 08 May 2012 at 2:45pm]]> Tue, 08 May 2012 14:18:06 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163922#163922 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish,you wrote: &#034;They... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163775#163775 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 01 May 2012 at 1:40pm

Kish,
you wrote: "They all (including Jesus) used God's name Jehovah unlike Muhammad"
You are wrong according to the Bible:
Mark 15:34 “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?”
I can tell you my friend that Jesus' calling to his God: " Eloi, Eloi"  and my call "Allah-e- Allah" we are just going to be an acsent away from each other in calling One and only God. While, if you call " Jehovah, Jehovah" VS Jesus' call of Eloi and Eloi, you are ocean's apart.
Of course, in different languages people refer to same God with different words or names like, Allah, Khuda, Dios and so on regardless of their belief. I know Hindus use word Khuda, Muslims of indo-pak-iran-central asia also use Khuda for God. Arab Christians use word Allah like Muslim for God. Muslim in Mexico use word Dios for God like Catholics there. So, please broaden you understanding on that issue.
I think, it also comes down to who you are talking about in essence. We, in Islam can call upon God with any of His 99 attributes, like Merciful, Forgiver, Sustainer and so on. In Islam we do not have any mystry about who is God and who is not. There is a clear line, on one side there is the Creator of All, we call upon Him by any of His beautiful attributes, who is not created neither was He born, God does not have parents nor off spring. God is above having a gendor and race. And on the other side of the line we have ALL (including, earth, sun, moon, fruits, birds, animals, planets, stars, Adam, Moses, David, Jesus, Mohammed (pbut), you, me and all) of God's creation, everything, and everyone other than God is on this side of the line, the CREATED ones.
Hope this help improve your understanding of God.  
May God guide us all, Ameen.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 01 May 2012 at 2:35pm]]> Tue, 01 May 2012 13:40:10 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163775#163775 God’s written instructions for life. : You still haven&#039;t answered... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163655#163655 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 23 April 2012 at 10:52am

[QUOTE=Kish] You still haven't answered my questions.

As far as the way people live there lives who call themselves Christians, did Muhammad who professed to be a prophet of Allah do better or worst?
As a prophet Muhammad did worst than any Prophet in the Bible.



Your Bible answers this for you.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7 (King James Version)




Now what are the fruits?let us look at them.


     World Top Ten Countries With Highest Reported
United States
United Kingdom
Germany
France
Russia
Japan
South Africa
Canada
Italy
India

Not a single Islamic country.The fruits look at them.




U.S. Leads Drug Use

In the study, researchers surveyed more than 54,000 adults in the Americas (Colombia, Mexico, and the United States), Europe (Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Ukraine)

The fruits.


Abortions (most recent) by country



#      1        Russia:     2,766,360      
#      2        United States:     1,210,880      
#      3        India:     596,345      
Health in India

#      4        Japan:     343,024      
#      5        France:     161,129      
#      6        Italy:     134,137      
#      7        Germany:     97,936      
#      8        Bulgaria:     97,023      
#      9        Cuba:     83,963      
#      10        Hungary:     76,957      
#      11        Canada:     70,549      
#      12        Sweden:     37,489      
#      13        Israel:     15,509      
#      14        Norway:     13,672      
#      15        New Zealand:     11,173      
#      16        Finland:     9,884      
#      17        Greece:     1,216      
#      18        Iceland:     807      
#      19        Poland:


Look at the fruits.

The highest rape stats.


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita


Divorce rate (most recent) by country
Countries        Amount   
#      1        United States:     4.95 per 1,000 people      
American People

#      2        Puerto Rico:     4.47 per 1,000 people      
#      3        Russia:     3.36 per 1,000 people      
#      4        United Kingdom:     3.08 per 1,000 people      
#      5        Denmark:     2.81 per 1,000 people      
#      6        New Zealand:     2.63 per 1,000 people      
#      7        Australia:     2.52 per 1,000 people      
#      8        Canada:     2.46 per 1,000 people      
#      9        Finland:     1.85 per 1,000 people      
#      10        Barbados:




Corruption (most recent) by country

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/gov_cor-government-corruption


Murders with firearms (most recent) by country

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

Kish i think you have to admit in most of these stats that i provided you will see very few followers of Islam.Who told us to live a good clean life?The Prophet Muhammed SAW.


Prophet Muhammad - The Most Influential Man in History
from the book by Michael Hart
http://amaana.org/ismailim.html

The following is from Michael Hart's book and lists Prophet Muhammad as the most influential man in History. A Citadel Press Book, published by Carol Publishing Group
Ranking of the twenty from the list of 100:

Prophet Muhammad
Isaac Newton
Jesus Christ
Buddha
Confucius
St. Paul
Ts'ai Lun
Johann Gutenberg
Christopher Columbus
Albert Einstein
Karl Marx
Louis Pasteur
Galileo Galilei
Aristotle
Lenin
Moses
Charles Darwin
Shih Huang Ti
Augustus Caesar
Mao Tse-tung




I know you will not even look at the stats,yet you spew out your hatred for someone you did not bother to read about.


Lastly,Muhammed saw is the only prophet to recognise Jesus,and who spoke about him.


12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


All that i have shown you is that the Christians boast that they are saved yet the stats show the opposite.


The Prophet Muhammed came to abolish all this rot that is happening to the Christian country's.If we look at the stats of Muslims we have our bad apples but as a whole we are a mush better people then the Christians.Who did that only the Prophet Muhammed.

That answers your questions.


Edited by iec786 - 24 April 2012 at 5:24am]]> Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:52:41 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163655#163655 God’s written instructions for life. : You still haven&#039;t answered... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163598#163598 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 20 April 2012 at 7:37pm

You still haven't answered my questions.

As far as the way people live there lives who call themselves Christians, did Muhammad who professed to be a prophet of Allah do better or worst?

As a prophet Muhammad did worst than any Prophet in the Bible. ]]> Fri, 20 Apr 2012 19:37:11 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163598#163598 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Christianity... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163365#163365 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 09 April 2012 at 12:48pm


Originally posted by Kish
Christianity had a prophet, Jesus,


Could you please back up on your answer that Jesus was a Christian prophet.As far as we know is that Jesus was a Jew ,his mother was a Jew and Jesus said I have not come but to the house of the lost sheep of Israel.Which means he came only to the Jews.How you Christians jumped on the band wagon you can explain.



Kish said,
There would be no need for other Prophets after Jesus in that sense because God’s will had been accomplished by Jesus





You shot a statement with nothing to back it up with.Now you can explain the verse from your Bible.
12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


Kish said,
What characterizes their way of life? “The works of the flesh are . . . fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, idolatry, practice of spiritism . . .things that Muhammad engaged himself in.



You taking a swipe with stpi* statements but that is what i expect people with ignorance to do.I would like to give you an answer.

Fonication= you need to look no further then your priests

Jimmy Swaghart,but let us go to your Bible.


6. ****** : This word occurs in the Bible THREE times.
(a) "The ****** shall not enter the congregation of the Lord;
even to his tenth generation . . ." DEUTRONOMY 23:2
(b) "And the ****** shall dwell in Ashdod . . ." ZECHARIAH 9:6
(c) "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers,
then ye are ******S and not sons." HEBREWS 12:8

INCEST : "Sexual intercourse between two persons who are
too closely related." (New Collins Dictionary). For example,
between father and daughter, son and mother, father-in-law and
daughter-in-law, brother and sister, etc.
INCEST IN GOD'S BOOK (?) BETWEEN A FATHER AND HIS
DAUGHTERS:
(a) "That night they (both the daughters of Lot) gave him (their
father Lot) wine to drink, and the older daughter had
INTERCOURSE with him ...
   "The next day the older daughter said to her sister, l slept with
him last night: now let's get him drunk again tonight, and you
sleep with him. Then each of us will have a child by our father.
   "So that night they got him drunk, and the younger daughter
had INTERCOURSE with him ...
   "In this way both of Lot's daughters became PREGNANT by
their father." GENESIS 19:33-35 (From the "Good News Bible in Today's
English").
In the older Versions, like the King James and the Roman Catholic
Versions, "SEXUAL INTERCOURSE" is vaguely described as
"COLLECTING THE SEED OF OUR FATHER."
INCEST BETWEEN MOTHER AND SON:
(b) "While Jacob (Israel) was living in the land, Reuben (his
firstborn, his eldest son) had SEXUAL


INTERCOURSE with Bilhah, his father's concubine. "
GENESIS 35:22.
The older Versions of the Bible, use the word, "lay" for SEXUAL
INTERCOURSE.
INCEST BETWEEN FATHER-IN-LAW AND DAUGHTER-IN-LAW:
(c) "When Judah saw her (Tamar, his daughter-in-law), he thought
she was a prostitute, because she had covered her face.
   "He went over to her at the side of the road and said, "ALL
RIGHT, HOW MUCH DO YOU CHARGE?" (He did not
know that she was his daughter-in-law)
   "She said what will you give me?" (To have sex with me).
   "He answered, I WILL SEND YOU A YOUNG GOAT
FROM MY FLOCK.
   "She said, "All right, if you will give me something to keep as a
pledge until you send the goat.
". . . He gave them (the pledges) to her. Then had
INTERCOURSE, and she became pregnant." GENESIS 38:15-I8
(Quoted from the "Good News Bible").

Out of this incestuous relationship between a father-in-law and his
daughter-in-law, twins were born, who were destined to become the
great-grand-fathers of Jesus Christ. See MATTHEW 1:3
   "And Judas begat Phares and Zarah of Thamar . . ."
INCEST AND RAPE BETWEEN BROTHER AND SISTER:
(d) ". . . he took hold of her (Thamar, his sister, not to be confused
with Thamar in "c" above), and said unto her, Come lie with me
(have sex with me), my sister. 2 Samuel 13:11
   "And she answered him, Nay, my brother (Amnon, one of the
sons of David, the man after God's own heart), do not force me .
. ." 2 Samuel 13:12
   "But he would not listen to her; and since he was stronger
than she was, he overpowered her and RAPED her (his
sister)." 2 Samuel 13:14
WHOLESALE RAPE AND INCEST BETWEEN SON AND HIS
MOTHERS!
(e) "So they set up a tent for Absalom (another son of King David)
on the palace roof, and in the sight of everyone, Absalom went
in and had INTERCOURSE with his father's concubines ." 2
SAMUEL 16:22
(f) For other various types of incest see LEVITICUS 18:8-18, 20:11-
14 and 17-21.


HOREDOMS OF THE 2 SISTERS - AHOLA AND AHOLIBA:
(b) "And she kept LUSTING in the style of concubines belonging
to those whose fleshly member (genitals) is as the fleshly
member (genitals) of male asses (donkeys) and whose
GENITAL ORGAN is as the GENITAL ORGAN of male
horses." EZEKIEL 23:1-49 (New World Translation)
(c) ". . . for the spirit of WHOREDOMS hath cause them (the
Jews) to err, and they have gone a WHORRING from under
their God." HOSEA 4:12, 6:10, and 9:1

I think this is enough for you.



uncleanness
This is what the Jews call you Christians nidah and Goyim.

You go to the toilet you do not use water and then you touch your Bible with that filthy hands and you call us uncleannes? My dear we wash FIVE TIMES A DAY.There is no nation cleaner then the Muslims.




Jesus was pure, without sin

What about you total filth.The highest rape cases,the highest divorce rate,the highest drunks the highest fornicators,the most murders.
call a spade a spade.




(YHWH) Jehovah yes the J sickness.yhwh is jehova?????you open your mouth but you do not understand your book.





Deut. 18:18-20: “A prophet (Jesus) I shall raise up for them (The Nation of Israel)from the midst of their brothers (Judah), like you [like Moses]; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name(Jehovah), I shall myself require an account from him. However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other (false) gods, that prophet must die.”




I will not answer this because i will be posting a book soon on this verse.


















]]> Mon, 09 Apr 2012 12:48:10 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163365#163365 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by KishHoneto,... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163327#163327 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 08 April 2012 at 7:33pm

Originally posted by Kish

Honeto, please spare me the long sermon and no answers to my question which I'm not surprised. Your belief have no connection to the "book" it's just an Islamic doctrine and belief which is fine, you can believe what you want to believe.

As I said before the Quran and it's teachings are only for Muslims, why would I have a problem with that?

But when you began to quote and use the Prophets from the Old and New Testament to promote Islam that concerns me a GREAT deal because you are basing them on empty words with no evidence to back up or support it.

Example: Adam built the Kaba, Abraham and Ishmael went to Mecca, where is your historical and archaeological proof for such a statement other than the Quran?

The Quran is the book in question so how can you use the Quran to prove your point, that is circular reasoning!!! It just does not hold up.

If that is your belief fine, but at least show the forum when and how Adam came to build it using non Islamic source since it is not mentioned by Adam or Moses in the Geneses.

Originally posted by kish

Here is another question to all Muslims, when was the title Allah ever first used for Muslims? In what book? By what Prophet? What chapter? What verse?


Any answers to these first ever asked questions on this forum?

   

 
Kish,
you are being childish. I have said before, you are on an Islamic website asking about things. We will give you Islamic understanding and perspective about it whether you like it or not. You seem to be not intrested in things that are important, rather you look for excuses to not beleive in One and Only God something all the prophets of God taught.
If you need other perspectives, you need to look for those other places. 
Let me ask you this, like your question, was Adam worshipping God, and where did he build that place of worship? And remember to offer a credible, non-contradictory back-up source.
Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 16 April 2012 at 3:04pm]]> Sun, 08 Apr 2012 19:33:03 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163327#163327 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by kish. .... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163309#163309 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 April 2012 at 2:12pm

Originally posted by kish

. . . when was the title Allah ever first used for Muslims and by who?


Originally posted by iec786

for Muslims it was Muhammad(SAW)as he was the first Muslim after revelation.


Originally posted by kish

. . . I really don't know, was it Muhammad?


Originally posted by iec786

Yes it was.All previous prophets were from Judaism.


Exactly! Just as Moses prophesied it would be(scripture below) among Judaism not Islam.

Originally posted by iec786

Did Christianity have a prophet or did you claime a Jew as your God????


Christianity had a prophet, Jesus, but he is now the King in God’s Kingdom. There would be no need for other Prophets after Jesus in that sense because God’s will had been accomplished by Jesus

John 19:28 After this, when Jesus knew that by now all things had been accomplished, in order that the scripture might be accomplished he said: “I am thirsty.” 29 A vessel was sitting there full of sour wine. Therefore they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a hyssop [stalk] and brought it to his mouth. 30 When, now, he had received the sour wine, Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!” and, bowing his head, he delivered up [his] spirit

In fact Jesus himself said there would be false prophets that would come after him. . .

Matthew 7:15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits (Way of life) YOU will recognize them.

What characterizes their way of life? “The works of the flesh are . . . fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, idolatry, practice of spiritism . . .things that Muhammad engaged himself in.

On the other hand, Jesus was pure, without sin. So whatever belief Muslims have I respect but when you try to replace the Holy Scriptures (Bible) with your Quran, the God of Israel (YHWH) Jehovah with Allah, and Jesus with Muhammad, yes that is a Big, BIG problem, not so much for Christians but for non-Christians.

You are putting yourselves in direct opposition to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, JEHOVAH! We can agree to disagree but my hands are clean because of the warning that has been put forth on this forum.

Deut. 18:18-20: “A prophet (Jesus) I shall raise up for them (The Nation of Israel)from the midst of their brothers (Judah), like you [like Moses]; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name(Jehovah), I shall myself require an account from him. However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other (false) gods, that prophet must die.”

Greetings - Kish
]]> Sat, 07 Apr 2012 14:12:00 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163309#163309 God’s written instructions for life. : You still haven&#039;t answered... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163270#163270 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 05 April 2012 at 11:22pm

You still haven't answered my first question, why? Here it is again, when was the title Allah ever first used for Muslims and by who?

for Muslims it was Muhammad(SAW)as he was the first Muslim after revelation.



This is really getting interesting!!! I can't wait for a Muslim to answer this question because I really don't know, was it Muhammad?

Yes it was.All previous prophets were from Judaism.

Did Christianity have a prophet or did you claime a Jew as your God????
i will leave you to answer


]]> Thu, 05 Apr 2012 23:22:36 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163270#163270 God’s written instructions for life. : You still haven&#039;t answered... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163249#163249 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 04 April 2012 at 8:19pm

You still haven't answered my first question, why? Here it is again, when was the title Allah ever first used for Muslims and by who?

What's the matter no date and name? In my Holy book it is translated into English, Moses spoke English as well?

Please don't tell me Moses or any Prophet in the Old Testament spoke Arabic. You can barely prove Jesus spoke it.

In fact show and prove to the forum who was the first Prophet to speak Arabic?

This is really getting interesting!!! I can't wait for a Muslim to answer this question because I really don't know, was it Muhammad?

Edited by Kish - 04 April 2012 at 8:30pm]]> Wed, 04 Apr 2012 20:19:39 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163249#163249 God’s written instructions for life. : KISH Allah in your Bible GENESIS... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163225#163225 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 03 April 2012 at 9:55pm

KISH Allah in your Bible GENESIS 1 VERSE 1 THE WORD ALLAH IS MENTIONED TWICE THIS IS A REPRODUCTION OF YOUR BIBLE IN ARABIC GENESIS 1 VERSE 1.DO NOW ACCEPT ISLAM?????????
فِي الْبَدْءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالارْضَ. وَكَانَتِ الارْضُ خَرِبَةً وَخَالِيَةً وَعَلَى وَجْهِ الْغَمْرِ ظُلْمَةٌ وَرُوحُ اللهِ يَرِفُّ عَلَى وَجْهِ الْمِيَاهِ. وَقَالَ اللهُ:

This is from the Bible in Arabic.اللهُ ]]> Tue, 03 Apr 2012 21:55:09 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163225#163225 God’s written instructions for life. : Honeto, please spare me the long... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163220#163220 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 03 April 2012 at 8:09pm

Honeto, please spare me the long sermon and no answers to my question which I'm not surprised. Your belief have no connection to the "book" it's just an Islamic doctrine and belief which is fine, you can believe what you want to believe.

As I said before the Quran and it's teachings are only for Muslims, why would I have a problem with that?

But when you began to quote and use the Prophets from the Old and New Testament to promote Islam that concerns me a GREAT deal because you are basing them on empty words with no evidence to back up or support it.

Example: Adam built the Kaba, Abraham and Ishmael went to Mecca, where is your historical and archaeological proof for such a statement other than the Quran?

The Quran is the book in question so how can you use the Quran to prove your point, that is circular reasoning!!! It just does not hold up.

If that is your belief fine, but at least show the forum when and how Adam came to build it using non Islamic source since it is not mentioned by Adam or Moses in the Geneses.

Originally posted by kish

Here is another question to all Muslims, when was the title Allah ever first used for Muslims? In what book? By what Prophet? What chapter? What verse?


Any answers to these first ever asked questions on this forum?

   



Edited by Kish - 03 April 2012 at 8:11pm]]> Tue, 03 Apr 2012 20:09:55 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163220#163220 God’s written instructions for life. : Problem #1 Why would Muhammad... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163215#163215 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 03 April 2012 at 11:10am

Problem #1 Why would Muhammad use a book that was corrupt to guide and to follow?

Which Book? your Bible? no way,he never used it to promote Islam.


Problem #2 Jesus did not say "the book" was corrupted only Muhammad, is that submitting to God? That is why only Muslims believe that nonsense. Was Muhammad trying to gather Jesus followers for himself?


All of the Bible has been corrupted.Go and read the book i posted is the Bible God's word,and learn.





Problem #3 No Muslim has yet produce this "un-corrupted" book that only Muslims say exist apart from what we have today, why? Where is your proof!!!



Here is your corrupted book with proof
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22932





Islam is the fastest growing religion on the face of this earth.


Unparalleled.No other true like Islam and you know it.



Moses, Jesus and Abraham who were Hebrew did the will of God and spoke in favor of the Holy Scriptures unlike Muhammad.

Not one of these prophets ever seen or read or quoted the Bible.


They all used God's name Jehovah unlike Muhammad.

None of the Prophets ever herd this word Jehovah.This is a coined word from the Jehovah's whiteness.





They all agreed with each other 100% unlike Muhammad who disagree with all three of them and yet not one of them mentioned the title, Allah, Quran or Mecca!!!


I told you to read the book i have posted which shows the bible had the word Allah in the Bible.It is right here for you to read.
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22932

Islam is not the religion of none of the Prophets of the Holy Scriptures (Book) because none of them worshiped the god of Muhammad, Allah.

Go and read my book.


Here is another question to all Muslims, when was the title Allah ever first used for Muslims? In what book? By what Prophet? What chapter? What verse?



Open the Quraan and read the first thing,it says Bismillah.


Don't back down now!!! Show me your references to support your claims!!!

This will settle it once and for all!!!


Try me

]]> Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:10:31 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163215#163215 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163198#163198 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 02 April 2012 at 2:54pm

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by honeto

I was simply showing you as you asked, that it is mentioned in the Bible.


No. What you and all Muslims are trying to do is use the Holy Scriptures to promote Islam and you have failed at every attempt! Islam was not in existence until Muhammad came on the scene, fact is fact. Every letter or word or scripture has nothing to do with Islam, Muhammad, Mecca or anything regarding the Quran, you find no direct quotes or anything. The first book for Muslims is the Quran.

iec786, i'll leave it to you to explain the link, let me know what YOU think and what it's talking about.
 
Kish,
you ask for something, it is  shown to you, you reject it. It is not anyone else but you who has a problem. And we see that it is rejection of facts when shown to you. As far as using quotes from the NT and OT, simply, it is not for those of us who believe in God and His word, but you who do not beleive in the word of God, the Final Testament, othersie we would not do it.
We don't have problem with understanding and beleiving that Kaba is the House of God, built by Adam as the first house for worship of God, and reclaimed as such by prophets like Abraham, and Mohammed (pbut).  It is people like you who don't want to believe in that but have problem that why do others believe in it as such.
I hope you see your problem, you are somhow involved in an effort to tell us that we should not believe as we do about the Kabba jsut becuase you say so, with no solid reasoning or proof. Its funny that you have not provided any evidence to support your ideas based on neither logic nor sense not even love. 
Hasan
]]> Mon, 02 Apr 2012 14:54:50 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163198#163198 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by iec786If... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163193#163193 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 02 April 2012 at 9:54am

Originally posted by iec786

If you corrupted your own book do not blame the Muslims.


Problem #1 Why would Muhammad use a book that was corrupt to guide and to follow?

Problem #2 Jesus did not say "the book" was corrupted only Muhammad, is that submitting to God? That is why only Muslims believe that nonsense. Was Muhammad trying to gather Jesus followers for himself?

Problem #3 No Muslim has yet produce this "un-corrupted" book that only Muslims say exist apart from what we have today, why? Where is your proof!!!

Originally posted by iec786

Islam is the fastest growing religion on the face of this earth.


Heart attack is the fastest growing cause of death does that make it right, no! It means that people are living there lives the WRONG way, the way they think is right!!!

Moses, Jesus and Abraham who were Hebrew did the will of God and spoke in favor of the Holy Scriptures unlike Muhammad.

They all used God's name Jehovah unlike Muhammad.

They all agreed with each other 100% unlike Muhammad who disagree with all three of them and yet not one of them mentioned the title, Allah, Quran or Mecca!!!

Islam is not the religion of none of the Prophets of the Holy Scriptures (Book) because none of them worshiped the god of Muhammad, Allah.

Here is another question to all Muslims, when was the title Allah ever first used for Muslims? In what book? By what Prophet? What chapter? What verse?

Don't back down now!!! Show me your references to support your claims!!!

This will settle it once and for all!!!

]]> Mon, 02 Apr 2012 09:54:31 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163193#163193 God’s written instructions for life. : What you and all Muslims are trying... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163154#163154 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 30 March 2012 at 11:31pm

What you and all Muslims are trying to do is use the Holy Scriptures to promote Islam


If you corrupted your own book do not blame the Muslims.






you have failed at every attempt!



My friend Kish, Islam is the fastest growing religion on the face of this earth.






Islam was not in existence until Muhammad came on the scene,





Kish, any human that believes in the oneness of God and submits to the one and only God and not the Son,is a Muslim.

Did Moses submit ? yes to God not the son.
Did Jesus submit? yes to God not the son.
Did Abraham submit? yes to God not the son.
All the prophets believed in monotheism What religion did they belong to.?

Islam olso means to submit oneself to God ALLAH.




iec786, i'll leave it to you to explain the link, let me know what YOU think and what it's talking about.




Yes Kish you love asking but hate it when you receive it .

You are the first person to shout PROOVE TI when you get proof you just die out.]]> Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:31:16 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163154#163154 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by honetoI... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163147#163147 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 30 March 2012 at 8:23pm

Originally posted by honeto

I was simply showing you as you asked, that it is mentioned in the Bible.


No. What you and all Muslims are trying to do is use the Holy Scriptures to promote Islam and you have failed at every attempt! Islam was not in existence until Muhammad came on the scene, fact is fact. Every letter or word or scripture has nothing to do with Islam, Muhammad, Mecca or anything regarding the Quran, you find no direct quotes or anything. The first book for Muslims is the Quran.

iec786, i'll leave it to you to explain the link, let me know what YOU think and what it's talking about.
]]> Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:23:33 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163147#163147 God’s written instructions for life. : This is all irrelevant; I’ll make... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163140#163140 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 30 March 2012 at 9:28am

This is all irrelevant; I’ll make it easier for you, a simple question. Where does the Holy Scriptures say Abraham and Ishmael were as you said “in Mecca” or Arabia?

Show me where Mecca existed during the time of Abraham and Ishmael, where in the Holy Scriptures?

Show me where Abraham went to Paran? This question goes to all your Muslim brothers.








Ok Kish this was a lot of work but here goes i hope you look into it.




http://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-route-wilderness-of-shur-ishmaelites-midianites-amalekites.htm


This is the land you looking for.

I hope Allah guides you.]]> Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:28:45 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163140#163140 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by KishSince... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163119#163119 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 29 March 2012 at 3:46pm

Originally posted by Kish

Since Abraham and Ishmael was first mentioned in the Holy Scripture show everyone with proof where they went to mecca in the Holy Scriptures.

Where is your archaeological evidence that Abraham and Ishmael ever went to Mecca?

This time don't rely on Islamic tradition. You cannot rely on Islamic sources to prove Islam as truth, that is completely circular reasoning.   
 
Kish,
 I am not interested in discussing what is not mentioned in either Quran or the Bible, I am only discussing with you what I just did, to show you that " the House of God" is mentioned in the Bible in the vally of Baka, which is same as valley of Bakkah that surround the Kabba which is the house of God.
You have to go beyond wikipedia to know what things really mean.
Love you,
Hasan
]]> Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:46:10 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163119#163119 God’s written instructions for life. : This is all irrelevant; I’ll make... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163111#163111 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 29 March 2012 at 7:59am

This is all irrelevant; I’ll make it easier for you, a simple question. Where does the Holy Scriptures say Abraham and Ishmael were as you said “in Mecca” or Arabia?

Show me where Mecca existed during the time of Abraham and Ishmael, where in the Holy Scriptures?

Show me where Abraham went to Paran? This question goes to all your Muslim brothers.

Originally posted by iec786

(d) ". . . he (Muhummed pbuh) shined forth from mount Paran (in
Arabia), and he came with ten thousand saints." DEUTERONOMY 33:2.


So now ”he” is no longer Moses but Muhammad? Muhammad was alive and he wrote Deuteronomy? That is stealing!!! Why do Muslims try so hard to claim the Bible to establish Islam but at the same time criticize it when it comes to serving the God of Moses, Jehovah?

Do Muslims know that the Ishmaelite hated the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Read it for your selves Psalm 83:2-6 . . .

For, look! your very enemies are in an uproar; And the very ones intensely hating you have raised [their] head Against your people they cunningly carry on their confidential talk; And they conspire against your concealed ones.

4 They have said: “Come and let us efface them from being a nation, That the name of Israel may be remembered no more.” 5 For with the heart they have unitedly exchanged counsel; Against you they proceeded to conclude even a covenant,

6 The tents of . . . the Ish′ma•el•ites!!!

I’m sorry to be the one to tell you this. But, even to this day this is what the descendants of Ishmael are trying to do.

The God of Israel, Jehovah would NEVER use an Ishmaelite to do anything for him or his people because they hated them then and they hate them now! In fact Muhammad mentions this hatred for them in the Quran just as the Holy Scriptures (Psalms) mentions.

I’m not trying to offend anyone and if I did I apologize.

Edited by Kish - 29 March 2012 at 8:04am]]> Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:59:31 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163111#163111 God’s written instructions for life. : In the Christian Bible. (a) &#034;The... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163080#163080 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 27 March 2012 at 8:41am

In the Christian Bible.
(a) "The burden upon Arabia." ISAIAH 21:13.
"Burden" = responsibility. God has imposed upon the Arabs, the
duty to deliver His Message to mankind.
(b) ". . . the villages that Kedar doth inhabit:" ISAIAH 42:11
Kedar being Ishmael's offspring.
(c) "Arabia and all the princes of Kedar . . ." EZEKIEL 27:21
(d) ". . . he (Muhummed pbuh) shined forth from mount Paran (in
Arabia), and he came with ten thousand saints." DEUTERONOMY 33:2.
(Referring to the conquest of Makkah).
(e) ". . . and I (God Almighty) will move them (the Jews) to jealousy
with those (the Arabs) which are NOT A PEOPLE (a nonentity): I will provoke them (the Jews) to anger with a
FOOLISH NATION," (the pre-Islamic Arabs) DEUTRONOMY 32:2]]> Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:41:14 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163080#163080 God’s written instructions for life. : Since Abraham and Ishmael was... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163070#163070 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 26 March 2012 at 7:24pm

Since Abraham and Ishmael was first mentioned in the Holy Scripture show everyone with proof where they went to mecca in the Holy Scriptures.

Where is your archaeological evidence that Abraham and Ishmael ever went to Mecca?

This time don't rely on Islamic tradition. You cannot rely on Islamic sources to prove Islam as truth, that is completely circular reasoning.   ]]> Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:24:50 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163070#163070 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish,so you think you have... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163065#163065 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 26 March 2012 at 2:38pm

Kish,
 so you think you have answer for everything, and that you will just not agree to anything we Muslims have to tell you. If that is your problem, I cannot help you, only can I pray for you.
By the way I did not ask you to translate what Baka or Bakkah translates to, I was simply showing you as you asked, that it is mentioned in the Bible. And this reference from the Psalms only makes a Muslim's case stronger that there was a place known as "vally of Baka" where "House of God" was according to the OT. That revelation must have knocked your socks off, yet you keep on denying the truth for some wordly benefit.
If you have really beleived that each and evey word you speak you will give its account you would not misguide others by denying the truth.
 
As far as proof with an outside source you asked, I want to remind you its you who is coming to an Islamic website to know what Islam says, and we give you answers form Islamic perspective, not only that sometimes we give you proofs from your own holy book because you believe in it. If you need out side of Islam opinions on things you need to go ask others.
 
Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 26 March 2012 at 2:49pm]]> Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:38:54 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163065#163065 God’s written instructions for life. : Throughout the Torah the God of... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163058#163058 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 26 March 2012 at 10:42am

Throughout the Torah the God of Israel (Jehovah) never cared about offending the pagans and their false gods but apparently Muhammad’s god the god of Islam does. How convenient when there’s no other explanation.



You forgot what happened to sodom and gommorah?????Oh you know it just too well.

By the way you talk of the God of the Jews yet you worship the God of the Jews,You read the book of the Jews,and then you call yourself a Christian?????Why don,t you label yourself as a Jew?










Originally posted by kish

Don’t tell me, it was a test to face in that direction or to gain favor with the Jews.
You guys are too too much!!! Most certainly Allah is not the God of Israel but the god of Islam!!!


Kish open the Bible in Arabic and look at the name of God it says ALLAH.The problem is you do not even have a clue of what you say.




Again, how convenient when there’s no other explanation as to why Muhammad changed his mind.


No Muhammad did not change his mind, that was an order of the Almighty to change direction,all Muhammad did was to follow the instructions of God.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakkah



Bakkah (Arabic: بكة‎) is an ancient name for Mecca, the most holy city of Islam.[1] Most people believe they are synonyms, but to Muslim scholars there is a distinction: Bakkah refers to the Kaaba and the sacred site immediately surrounding it, while Mecca is the name of the city in which they are both located.[2]
Bakkah is mentioned in sura 3 (Al-i-Imran), ayah 96 of the Qur'an, where it is said to be the site of the first place of worship.[3][4] Others also identify it with the Biblical "valley of Baca" from Psalms 84 (Hebrew: בך‎).[5][6]

]]> Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:42:17 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163058#163058 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by iec786Islam... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163039#163039 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 25 March 2012 at 10:05pm

Originally posted by iec786

Islam was new in Mecca and the pagans were also worshipping in the Kaaba.He did not want to offend them at that stage as Islam was new to them.

Throughout the Torah the God of Israel (Jehovah) never cared about offending the pagans and their false gods but apparently Muhammad’s god the god of Islam does. How convenient when there’s no other explanation.
Then I said . . .
Originally posted by kish

Don’t tell me, it was a test to face in that direction or to gain favor with the Jews.
You guys are too too much!!! Most certainly Allah is not the God of Israel but the god of Islam!!!

And what does he write?
Originally posted by honeto

as a test of faith to the beleivers, it was said through the prophet to tell the believers to change their direction for prayer from Temple mt to the Kabba.

Again, how convenient when there’s no other explanation as to why Muhammad changed his mind.
Originally posted by honeto

As far as why Abraham did not mention Kabba? If we had his writings and account of events with us, I am sure we would find it, since he has once restored it to its purity, just like the Prophet(pbuh) did.

Since we do have the writings of Prophet Moses in the Torah as proof and it’s not mentioned there, the Quran is wrong by adding it. When you can prove that the account did happened with proof to back it up people only then will believe it to be true. Until then, it’s only wishful thinking to support Muhammad’s ideology, not the Nation of Israel.
Originally posted by honeto

Tell me what you think of Psalm 84's Baka and Bakkah valley.

This can be translated as "Valley of the Balsam Tree" or "Valley of the Weeper". This otherwise unidentified valley has been connected to Bakkah by Islamic writers support their miss-guided agenda.
Always looking to the Bible to support your Islamic thoughts and belief, it will never happen!!! Why, because Abraham’s God is different and NOT the same as Muhammad’s god. Allah and the Quran are the first god and book for Muslims. That is why only Islamic sources say that Abraham and Ishmael went to Mecca NOT THE HOLY SCRIPTURES!!!
Again, where is the evidence outside of Islamic sources? There is none as usual just wishful thinking to support their own Islamic belief!!!   
Kish
]]> Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:05:18 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=163039#163039 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162628#162628 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 06 March 2012 at 2:44pm

Originally posted by Kish

Of course honeto never answered the question but here it is again . . .

Why did not Abraham mention this kaba that Muslims you know W~~~~~?

If the Kaba was the house of God, why did Muhammad order his followers to face Jerusalem?
 
Kish,
you answered your own question. Since its not the "Kabba" that we Muslim worship. Muslim used to worship toward the Temple mt. in Jerusalem, not that they then worshiped the Temple mt. The Kabba has to be first cleansed of the idols before it could be purified and restored as a pure house of worship of God. When it was purified by the prophet, as a test of faith to the beleivers, it was said through the prophet to tell the believers to change their direction for prayer from Temple mt to the Kabba.
At that time those who were true beleivers, it was a matter of faith for them.   So you see, its not that either one of the holy places is worhsiped as some of you have been saying it is, rather, as a universal symbol that all beleivers must face one direction when offering their worship to God Almighty.
As far as why Abraham did not mention Kabba? If we had his writings and account of events with us, I am sure we would find it, since he has once restored it to its purity, just like the Prophet(pbuh) did.
 
Here is something from your trusted source that you might wnat to ponder:
Psalms of David 84:
1 How lovely is your dwelling place,
LORD Almighty!
2 My soul yearns, even faints,
for the courts of the LORD;
my heart and my flesh cry out
for the living God.
3 Even the sparrow has found a home,
and the swallow a nest for herself,
where she may have her young—
a place near your altar,
LORD Almighty, my King and my God.
4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house;
they are ever praising you.c]'>[c]

5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.
6 As they pass through the Valley of Baka,

   they make it a place of springs;
the autumn rains also cover it with pools.d]'>[d]
7 They go from strength to strength,
till each appears before God in Zion.

8 Hear my prayer, LORD God Almighty;
listen to me, God of Jacob.
9 Look on our shield,e]'>[e] O God;
look with favor on your anointed one.

10 Better is one day in your courts
than a thousand elsewhere;
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield;
the LORD bestows favor and honor;
no good thing does he withhold
from those whose walk is blameless.

12 LORD Almighty,
blessed is the one who trusts in you.

Here is a link that I thought will help you to connect

its very rare moment when I use an outside link to my post. Tell me what you think of Psalm 84's Baka and Bakkah valley. May Allah guide us all to Truth, Ameen.

 
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 06 March 2012 at 3:12pm]]> Tue, 06 Mar 2012 14:44:13 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162628#162628 God’s written instructions for life. : hy did not Abraham mention this... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162523#162523 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 02 March 2012 at 8:03am

hy did not Abraham mention this kaba that Muslims you know W~~~~~?



You are a riot typical Bible thumper.All American televangelist.




How many Muslims do you know that worship the Kaaba??????????
You need to study Islam my friend i think you have the wrong end of the stick.





If the Kaba was the house of God, why did Muhammad order his followers to face Jerusalem?



The Prophet Muhammed did not face towards Jerusalem out of his own free will.Islam was new in Mecca and the pagans were also worshipping in the Kaaba.He did not want to offend them at that stage as Islam was new to them.When Islam spread to all of Mecca and the Muslims were able to destroy the the idols that is when he cleansed it to its former place of worship he then got the order from Allah to turn and face the Kaaba.   ]]> Fri, 02 Mar 2012 08:03:35 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162523#162523 God’s written instructions for life. : Of course honeto never answered... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162482#162482 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 29 February 2012 at 8:08pm

Of course honeto never answered the question but here it is again . . .

Why did not Abraham mention this kaba that Muslims you know W~~~~~?

If the Kaba was the house of God, why did Muhammad order his followers to face Jerusalem?]]> Wed, 29 Feb 2012 20:08:51 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162482#162482 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by KishSorry,... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162328#162328 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 21 February 2012 at 12:45pm

Originally posted by Kish

Sorry, I am not impressed by stone worship and a sanctuary dedicated to pagan deities!!! Ask the Hanifites Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol 5, #661

Leviticus 26:1 . . . and you must not put a stone as a showpiece in your land in order to bow down toward it, for I am Jehovah your God.

Muhammad claimed that Abraham and Ishmael laid the foundations of the Kaba (Q. 2:127) Why did not Abraham mention it? Simply, because there was no such thing, that is why ONLY Muhammad mentions it. Besides, you will find no mention of Abraham ever traveling to Mecca.

Further, the late Taha Hussein, one of the most famous Egyptian professors of Arabic literature said that the Islamic myth of Abraham building the Kaba came into vogue just before the rise of Islam. He comments: "The case of this episode is very obvious because it is of recent date, and came into vogue just before the rise of Islam. Islam exploited it for religious reasons". Quoted in 'Mizar al-Islam' by Anwar al-Jundi.

If the Kaba was the house of God, why did Muhammad order his followers to face Jerusalem? Don’t tell me, it was a test to face in that direction or to gain favor with the Jews.

You guys are too too much!!! Most certainly Allah is not the God of Israel but the god of Islam!!!
 
Kish,
ignorance is your biggest enemy, it will cause your fall if you don't leave it.
Ignorance is also keeping you away from knowing your own scripture.
For your enlightment let me open a couple of vereses from your Bible, if you pay them attention you will understand the true purpose of why a true believer bows down to the "Holy Temple" the Kabba'.
 
I want you to open Psalm chapter 138 and read it loud:
(Remember Prophet David (pbuh) is quoted to have said this)
1 I will praise you, LORD, with all my heart;
before the “gods” I will sing your praise.
2 I will bow down toward your holy temple
and will praise your name for your unfailing love and your faithfulness, for you have so exalted your solemn decree that it surpasses your fame.

 

I hope you do the same (bow down toward the Holy Temple, the Kabba') before its too late my friend.

Hasan


]]> Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:45:21 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162328#162328 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by truthnowcomeSalaam... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162326#162326 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 21 February 2012 at 12:19pm

Originally posted by truthnowcome

Salaam honeto!
You forget to mentioned that the building also have three stories (from the middle you can notice it); first and second stories already filled before they occupied the top story.

Br. zainool
 
May God bless you brother for presenting more complete picture.
Jazakallah.
]]> Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:19:11 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162326#162326 God’s written instructions for life. : Sorry, I am not impressed by stone... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162323#162323 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 21 February 2012 at 9:04am

Sorry, I am not impressed by stone worship and a sanctuary dedicated to pagan deities!!!


Nice swipe.But it only shows your ignorance.




you will find no mention of Abraham ever traveling to Mecca.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/paran.htm

Go and get all the answers you need and stop rambling about things you know nothing about.]]> Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:04:28 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162323#162323 God’s written instructions for life. : Sorry, I am not impressed by stone... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162319#162319 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 21 February 2012 at 7:57am

Sorry, I am not impressed by stone worship and a sanctuary dedicated to pagan deities!!!



Total ignorance of Islam.]]> Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:57:02 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162319#162319 God’s written instructions for life. : Sorry, I am not impressed by stone... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162300#162300 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 20 February 2012 at 8:11pm

Sorry, I am not impressed by stone worship and a sanctuary dedicated to pagan deities!!! Ask the Hanifites Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol 5, #661

Leviticus 26:1 . . . and you must not put a stone as a showpiece in your land in order to bow down toward it, for I am Jehovah your God.

Muhammad claimed that Abraham and Ishmael laid the foundations of the Kaba (Q. 2:127) Why did not Abraham mention it? Simply, because there was no such thing, that is why ONLY Muhammad mentions it. Besides, you will find no mention of Abraham ever traveling to Mecca.

Further, the late Taha Hussein, one of the most famous Egyptian professors of Arabic literature said that the Islamic myth of Abraham building the Kaba came into vogue just before the rise of Islam. He comments: "The case of this episode is very obvious because it is of recent date, and came into vogue just before the rise of Islam. Islam exploited it for religious reasons". Quoted in 'Mizar al-Islam' by Anwar al-Jundi.

If the Kaba was the house of God, why did Muhammad order his followers to face Jerusalem? Don’t tell me, it was a test to face in that direction or to gain favor with the Jews.

You guys are too too much!!! Most certainly Allah is not the God of Israel but the god of Islam!!!


Edited by Kish - 20 February 2012 at 8:14pm]]> Mon, 20 Feb 2012 20:11:29 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162300#162300 God’s written instructions for life. : Salaam honeto!You forget to mentioned... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162260#162260 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 19 February 2012 at 12:08am

Salaam honeto!
You forget to mentioned that the building also have three stories (from the middle you can notice it); first and second stories already filled before they occupied the top story.

Br. zainool
]]> Sun, 19 Feb 2012 00:08:33 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162260#162260 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish,if you wonder what these... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162253#162253 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 18 February 2012 at 7:26pm

Kish,
if you wonder what these photographs from air are ment to show! Those dotted lines around the Kaba' are people several millions from all nations, continents and tribes and colors and races. There are poor people in there, kings and all in between side by side dressed alike with no distinction presenting themselves in front of God.
There is nowhere in the world another place like this that has been bringing so many people together every and each year without a break for the longest time ever for one purpose, to present and humble themselves in front of God as His servants as the Prophet (pbuh) taught.
Hasan
 
 
]]> Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:26:50 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162253#162253 God’s written instructions for life. : FOOD... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162152#162152 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 14 February 2012 at 9:17pm

 

FOOD FORTHOUGHT: Can a man who don’t know to read and write move  such a masses; create such a large congregationcomprises of all nations and tribes from the King to the beggar standing sideby side speaking different languages with no confusion? Jesus (S) prophesy thatin Matthew 21:42-44.

Muhammad(S) didn’t know to read and write:

Ø  And thou (O Muhammad) was not (able) to recite a bookbefore this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy righthand: in that case indeed, would the talkers of vanity have doubted. (Q.29:48)

Ø  Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire. It is noless than inspiration sent down to him. He was taught by one mighty inpower. (Q.53:3-5)

Ø  “Therefore say I unto youthe kingdom of God shall taken fromyou, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (Matt.21:43). This is the Lord’s doings, and it is marvelous in our eyes. (Matt.21:42)

TNC


]]> Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:17:16 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162152#162152 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162145#162145 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 14 February 2012 at 8:35pm

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by truthnowcome

and not “ONE’, I REPEAT “NOT ONE” OF THEM YOU HAD EVEN TRY TO REFUTE; SHAME ON YOU!!!


BECAUSE NOT ONE OF THEM MENTIONS ANY MUHAMMAD, why waste my time.

In fact the reason why God would NEVER, EVER choose any Ishmaelites to represent him as a messenger or prophet was because THE Ishmaelites were NEVER God’s friends AT ALL, THEY WERE GOD’S ENEMY!!! THEY HATED THE GOD OF ISRAEL!!! Read it for yourself!!!

Psalm 83:1-6

Do not keep silent, O God! Do not hold Your peace, And do not be still, O God! 2 For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; And those who hate You have lifted up their head.
5 For they have consulted together with one consent; They form a confederacy against You ... The tents of Ishmaelites

I hated to be the one to tell you this but the Ishmaelites hated the God of Abraham!!!

That is why a Prophet would never come from among them!!!

That is why the Ishmaelites NEVER, EVER mentioned anything about a messenger or prophet let alone someone named Muhammad!!!

NO WONDER THE SELF-PROCLAIMED SELF-APPOINTED MUHAMMAD WAS IN THE CAVE ALL THOSE YEARS WITH NO EYE-WITNESSES TO CONFIRM WHAT HE EXACTLY SAW AND HEARD

YOU HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED!!!

<>

You are reading the OT with your eyes close! THIS IS WHAT THE GOD OF MOSES (S) SAID:

Ø  And as for Ishmael…Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful,and multiply him exceedingly…and Iwill make a GREAT NATION Genesis 17:20 )

Who is that Great nation that willcome from Ishmael’s seeds?

The OT mentioned Ishmael dwelt in the wilderness in Paran;

“And he [Ishmael (S)] dwelt in thewilderness ofParan  (Genesis21:21).

 

AND THIS IS A PROPHECYCONCERNING “PARAN”:

Ø  …And the Holy One from Mount Paran. Se-lah. His Glorycovered the heaven, and the earth was full of his praise. (Habakkuk.3:3)

 It mentioned about the Holy Onefrom Mt. Paran.

This Holy One from Mount Paran; when he came he defeated his enemy andestablishes Salvation. It also mentioned: “even Salvation for the Anointed”.That would mean, the second coming of the Messiah (Anointed) to establish theHoly One from message 

Ø  “…at the light of thine arrows they went, and at theshining of thy glittering spear. Thou didst tresh the heathen in anger. Thouwentest forth for Salvation ofthy people, even Salvationfor the ANOINTED; thou woundedstthe head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto theneck. Se-lah.” (Habk.3:11-13)

Ø He stood and measured the earth:he beheld and drove asunder the nations…His way are everlasting. (Habk.3:6)

 Measuredthe earth: Meaning: His messageis for the whole earth (universal message) and His way are everlasting.

In the Quran itmentioned that Muhammad (S) was sent as a UNIVERSAL PROPHET:

“We have not sent thee but as a (universalMessenger) to ALL mankind, giving glad tiding and warn them (againstsin), but most of mankind knows not.” (Q.34:28)

And Habakkuk mentioned:

Ø  …When he cometh upunto the people, he will invade them with his troops. (Habk.3:16)

History of Islam have is that Muhammad (S) invade Mecca with ten thousand followers only kill six persons who were among theleaders:

Ø  Thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked,by discovering the foundation unto theneck. Se-lah. (Habk.3:13)

It is also mentioned in Duet.33:2 (KJV):

Ø  “And he [Moses (S)] said: the Lord came from Sinai, and rose from Sir unto them; He shinedforth from Mount Paran, and he came with “tenthousand Saints”: from his right hand went a “fiery Law” for them.”

In these words the Lord has been compared with the “sun.” He comes fromSinai, he rises from Seir, but he shinesin his full glory from Paran, where he had to appear with ten thousands of saints with a fiery law in his right hand.

 Also in Jude1:14-15

Ø  And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied ofthese, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15To execute judgmentupon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them ofall their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all theirhard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jude1:14-15

That is exactly what Muhammad (S) did: He (S) came with ten thousandsaints, He (S) execute judgment upon all, He convince allthat were ungodly among His people of their ungodly deeds which theyhave ungodly committed and of all their hard speeches which they ungodlysinners have spoken against him. You don’t have to believe me, go to theinternet and look his’ history for yourself; and Jude 1:15 mentioned there: “15To execute judgment upon all”

Allah (S)conform it in the Qur’an:

Ø  “Blessed is He who sent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong) to His Servant,that it may be an admonition to all creatures. (Q.25:1)

Ø  Thus have Werevealed it (the Qur’an) to be a judgmentof authority in Arabic (Q.13:37)

Ø  Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear(Signs) for guidance and Judgment(Between right and wrong).” (Qur’an 2:185)

  Muhammad (S) received revelation in the caveof Mount Hira in Arabia (Paran), later to be known as Jabal-un-Noor (Mountainof Light). After his migration to Medina, he returns and invades Mecca with “ten thousand Saints” and heestablishes the “fiery Law” (Islamiclaw). Moses (S) is the only law giver inthe bible and he prophesies another law giver in Duet.33:2 (KJV):

For the LAW wasgiven by Moses (John.1:17).

 

The new law giverwas also prophesy in Isaiah 42 which I have already explain in chapter 8.

Ø  “Behold my servant,whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth: I have put my Spiritupon him: he shall bring forth judgmentto the Gentile.” (Iasiah.42:1)

Ø  He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he has set judgment in the earth: and the islesshall wait for His LAW.(Isaiah.42:4)

The new law was described as the new Song forall mankind in Isaiah42:

Ø  9-Behold, the former things are come to pass, and newthings do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you. (Isaiah.42:9)

Ø  10-Sing unto the Lord a new song and his praise from the end of the earth… (Isaiah.42:10) 

Remember what the God of the OT said to concern the Kedarites (Ishmael’sdescendants)? He will bring them from darkness to light.

Ø  16-And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not;I will lead them in the path that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crookedthings straight. These things will I do unto them (Kedarites: Ishmaelite), andnot forsake them. (Isaiah.42:16)

TNC



Edited by truthnowcome - 14 February 2012 at 8:43pm]]> Tue, 14 Feb 2012 20:35:26 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162145#162145 God’s written instructions for life. : Was this alleged corruption of... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162113#162113 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 13 February 2012 at 9:46am

Was this alleged corruption of the Gospel before or after Muhammad and his Quran and how and when did the Christians corrupt it?

Where is this alleged original, unadulterated Gospel now?





That is for you to find out not for me,but let me help you this so called Gospel that you talk about was corrupted long before the advent of the Prophet Muhammed.


Why would the Gospel make references to Muhammad when Ishmael or his twelve chieftains or the Tevrat (Torah) or the Zebur (Psalms) never made mention to any messenger or prophet of God?



(a) ". . . Every spirit (meaning every prophet) that confesseth that
Jesus Christ is come in flesh is of God." 1 JOHN 4:2
Compare with Holy Qur'an 3:45 and many other Qur'anic references
where Jesus (pbuh) is referred to as the CHRIST.

MUHUMMED (PBUH) MENTIONED BY NAME IN THE BIBLE:
(b) "His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is (Muhummed-im)
altogether lovely, this is my beloved, and this is my friend, O
daughters of Jerusalem." SONG OF SOLOMON 5:16
From the original Hebrew manuscript the word "MUHUMMEDIM", is
translated as "altogether lovely" which is actually the word
MUHUMMED with "im" added. "IM" is the plural of respect in the
Hebrew language.
MUHUMMED A "COMFORTER" LIKE JESUS, PEACE BE UPON
THEM:
(c) "And I will pray the father, and he shall give you ANOTHER
Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever." JOHN 14:16
Jesus (pbuh) was the first Comforter, and ANOTHER would have to
be one like him, of the same kind as Jesus, a man and not a Ghost.







My first question that hasn’t been answered yet was who identified that it was the angel Gabriel that spoke to Muhammad in the cave and who eye-witnessed the event to verify that it was true?



Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones."
She set out with Muhammad to her cousin Waraqah ibn Nawfal, who had embraced Christianity in the pre-Islamic period, and used to write the Bible in Hebrew; he was now old and blind. Khadijah said: "My cousin! Listen to your nephew!" Waraqah said: "O my nephew! What did you see?" When Muhammad told him what had happened to him, Waraqah replied: "This is ‘Namus’ (i.e., the angel who is entrusted with Divine Secrets) that Allah sent to Moses. I wish I were younger. I wish I could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Muhammad asked: "Will they drive me out?" Waraqah answered in the affirmative and said: "Anyone who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should be alive 'til that day, then I would support you strongly." A few days later Waraqah died, and the revelations also paused for a while.[2]










Edited by iec786 - 13 February 2012 at 9:47am]]> Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:46:07 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162113#162113 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by iec786Both... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162095#162095 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 12 February 2012 at 8:26pm

Originally posted by iec786

Both Ibn Sa'd and al-Tabari write that Bahira found the announcement of the coming of Muhammad in the original, unadulterated gospels, which he possessed; the standard Islamic view is that Christians corrupted the gospels, in part by erasing any references to Muhammad.[3]


Was this alleged corruption of the Gospel before or after Muhammad and his Quran and how and when did the Christians corrupt it?

Where is this alleged original, unadulterated Gospel now?

Why would the Gospel make references to Muhammad when Ishmael or his twelve chieftains or the Tevrat (Torah) or the Zebur (Psalms) never made mention to any messenger or prophet of God?

My first question that hasn’t been answered yet was who identified that it was the angel Gabriel that spoke to Muhammad in the cave and who eye-witnessed the event to verify that it was true?

1 John 4:1 . . . do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world

Kish


Edited by Kish - 12 February 2012 at 8:26pm]]> Sun, 12 Feb 2012 20:26:18 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162095#162095 God’s written instructions for life. : Where and who eye-witness the... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162088#162088 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 12 February 2012 at 10:49am

Where and who eye-witness the event?

The naboowah prophet-hood was

not one day their was a man and he seen an angel and he became a prophet and the whole world marvelled at this.No this is not what happened and i know that you wish to see it that way but let me tell you this that all the prophets were sent with a message and they al received prophet-hood at about age 40.They were prepared for prophet-hood from birth.


When Muhammad was twelve years old, he met Bahira in the town of Bosra in Syria during his travel with a Meccan caravan, accompanying his uncle Abu Talib ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib.[3] When the caravan was passing by his cell, the monk invited the merchants to a feast. They accepted the invitation, leaving the boy to guard the camel. Bahira, however, insisted that everyone in the caravan should come to him.[4] Then a miraculous occurrence indicated to the monk that Muhammad was to become a prophet.
It was a miraculous movement of a cloud that kept shadowing Muhammad regardless of the time of the day. The monk revealed his visions of Muhammad's future to the boy's uncle (Abu Talib), warning him to preserve the child from the Jews (in Ibn Sa'd's version) or from the Byzantines (in al-Tabari's version). Both Ibn Sa'd and al-Tabari write that Bahira found the announcement of the coming of Muhammad in the original, unadulterated gospels, which he possessed; the standard Islamic view is that Christians corrupted the gospels, in part by erasing any references to Muhammad.[3]]]> Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:49:24 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162088#162088 God’s written instructions for life. : The question was who identified... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162061#162061 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 10 February 2012 at 7:25pm

The question was who identified that it was the angel Gabriel who spoke to Muhammad in the cave?

Originally posted by iec786

Who called Muhammad to be God’s messenger?

God.


Where and who eye-witness the event?]]> Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:25:05 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162061#162061 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish I hated to be the one to... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162049#162049 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 10 February 2012 at 8:10am

Kish
I hated to be the one to tell you this but the Ishmaelites hated the God of Abraham!!!

That is why a Prophet would never come from among them!!!




I suppose you had nothing to say after i posted my article on ISHMAEL OR ISAAC?: So we can count that as you are shut.



Who identified the angel Gabriel?
All the chosen Prophets identified the angel Gabriel.





Who called Muhammad to be God’s messenger?

God.


Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call “miraculous” event?

The Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was alone when he received the Wahi.


]]> Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:10:00 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162049#162049 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by kishWho... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162034#162034 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 09 February 2012 at 8:11pm

Originally posted by kish

Who identified the angel Gabriel?
Who called Muhammad to be God’s messenger?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call “miraculous” event?


Iec786, are you going to ever answer any of these questions on the different threads? You can start here!!!

Originally posted by Iec786

] You ranting and raving,why don't you read from your Bible


Here is the link again, read it for yourself!!!
Psalms 83:1-6

I’ll wait for your answers to the three questions. If you refuse to answer then you only confirm that Muhammad was not sent from God and is a false prophet!!!
]]> Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:11:09 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162034#162034 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish I hated to be the one to... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162005#162005 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 08 February 2012 at 10:42am

Kish
I hated to be the one to tell you this but the Ishmaelites hated the God of Abraham!!!

That is why a Prophet would never come from among them!!!



You ranting and raving,why don't you read from your Bible

ISHMAEL OR ISAAC?:
A controversy has raged between the people of the Bible andthe House of Islam as to which of the sons of Abraham (pbuh), Ishmael or Isaac wasoffered as a sacrifice.The Bible is quite clear in designating the offering:"And he (God Almighty) said, take now thy son, THINE ONLY SON . . ., whom thou lovest,and et thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering . . ." Genesis22:2.If at anytime, an offspring of Abraham (pbuh) can be described as "thine only son: it couldonly be Ishmael, because for more than thirteen years, he was the only son and seed of Abraham.God Almighty acknowledges Ishmael as the "son and seed" of Abraham in no less thantwelve places in the Book of Genesis alone. At no time was Isaac the only son and seed of Abraham!The false pen of the scribe was in the hand of the Jews who edited the Books of Moses(pbuh), as the prophet Jeremiah bewails:"How do ye say, We are wise, and the law (the Torah) of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly inVAIN made he it; the PEN OF THE SCRIBE IS IN VAIN." Jeremiah 8:8

When the Jews are found to convert an Israelite into an Ishmaelite when no motives areinvolved, then how much easier for them to change the word "you only son Ishmael" to :your only son Isaac!"Confirm the Jewish sickness in your Bible:"Amasa was a man's son, whose name was Ithra an Israelite . . . " 2 Samuel 17:25Contadicted by". . . and the father of Amasa was Jether (dame as Ithra) the Ishmaelite." 1 Chronicles 2:17


Edited by iec786 - 08 February 2012 at 12:05pm]]> Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:42:12 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=162005#162005 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by truthnowcomeFirst... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161995#161995 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 February 2012 at 8:51pm

Originally posted by truthnowcome

First you claimed God is Jehovah and Jesus (S) is his’ son
Then you said Jesus is Jehovah.


I said . . .
Originally posted by kish

Another lie! Show the forum where I said “Jesus is Jehovah”


Does he show us, NO!
Originally posted by kish

Originally posted by kish

Who identified the angel Gabriel?
Who called Muhammad to be God’s messenger?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call “miraculous” event?


After asking these questions above for the last time what do we get in return? This . . .

Originally posted by truthnowcome

If I were you I would have shame to ask those question when all those evidences from the OT conforms that Muhammad’s (S) was prophecy in previous revelation, namely: Deut.18 and 33; Isaiah28, 29 and 42; John 14 and 16; revelation10, 11, 12 and 14;


Still no answer just more babble and randomly quoting scriptures that have no application to what I’ve asked!

Originally posted by truthnowcome

and not “ONE’, I REPEAT “NOT ONE” OF THEM YOU HAD EVEN TRY TO REFUTE; SHAME ON YOU!!!


BECAUSE NOT ONE OF THEM MENTIONS ANY MUHAMMAD, why waste my time.

In fact the reason why God would NEVER, EVER choose any Ishmaelites to represent him as a messenger or prophet was because THE Ishmaelites were NEVER God’s friends AT ALL, THEY WERE GOD’S ENEMY!!! THEY HATED THE GOD OF ISRAEL!!! Read it for yourself!!!

Psalm 83:1-6

Do not keep silent, O God! Do not hold Your peace, And do not be still, O God! 2 For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; And those who hate You have lifted up their head.
5 For they have consulted together with one consent; They form a confederacy against You ... The tents of Ishmaelites

I hated to be the one to tell you this but the Ishmaelites hated the God of Abraham!!!

That is why a Prophet would never come from among them!!!

That is why the Ishmaelites NEVER, EVER mentioned anything about a messenger or prophet let alone someone named Muhammad!!!

NO WONDER THE SELF-PROCLAIMED SELF-APPOINTED MUHAMMAD WAS IN THE CAVE ALL THOSE YEARS WITH NO EYE-WITNESSES TO CONFIRM WHAT HE EXACTLY SAW AND HEARD

YOU HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED!!!



Edited by Kish - 07 February 2012 at 9:05pm]]> Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:51:41 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161995#161995 God’s written instructions for life. : &lt;... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161989#161989 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 February 2012 at 2:41pm

<>

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by kish

IF YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION I KNOW FOR SURE YOU ARE NOTEQUIPPED WITH THE TRUTH AND SHOULD LEAVE THE FORUM NOW!!! LOL


Originally posted by kish

Who identified the angel Gabriel?
Who called Muhammad to be God’s messenger?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call“miraculous” event?
If I were you I would have shame to ask those question when all thoseevidences from the OT conforms that Muhammad’s (S) was prophecy in previous revelation,namely: Deut.18 and 33; Isaiah28, 29 and 42; John 14 and 16; revelation10, 11,12 and 14; and it also conforms to Jesus’ (S) message of the coming of thekingdom of God…all of which I have already establish and not “ONE’, I REPEAT“NOT ONE” OF THEM YOU HAD EVEN TRY TO REFUTE; SHAME ON YOU!!!

 

THE ONE WHO CALL MUHAMMAD (S) TO BEGOD’S MESSENGER IS THE GOD OF ISAIAH:

Ø  1“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth:I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentile.” (Iasiah.42:1)

Ø  18-Hear, ye (KISH THE) deaf; and look, ye (KISH THE) blind,that ye may see. (Isaiah.42:18)

Muhammad (s) didn’t know to read and write hewas blind before he was call to office as a MESSENGER; and became a perfect exemplar:

Ø  19-Who is blind, but my servant? Or deaf, ASMY MESSENGER THAT I SENT? Who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord’s servant?

Ø  20-Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but heheareth not.

Ø 21-The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness sake; he willmagnify the (new) law, and make ithonorable. (Isaiah 42:21)

 

Ø  23-Who among you will give ear to this (KISH)?Who will hearken and hear for the time to come (KISH)? (Isaiah.42:18-23)

 

WHO TESTIMONY DOYOU BELIEVE MAN OR THE GOD OF ISAIAH?

 

AGAIN: The God ofIsaiah knew there would be people like you so he recorded the event that wouldtake place in the cave with Muhammad (S) in the previous revelation:

 

Those who fallow the Messenger, theunlettered Prophet, whom they findmention in their own (Scriptures), In the Taurat {Torah} and the Injeel(Gospel). (Q.7:157).

Ø And the vision of all isbecome unto you as a word of a book thatis SEALED, which men deliver to one that is learned,saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed. Isaiah.29:11 (KJV)

Ø  …And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, read this I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. (Isaiah.29:12 KJV)

  History recorded that: Muhammad (S) used to go up mountain cave, called Ghar-Hera, in Arabia(Mt. Paran) to meditate. While he was there an angel, later identified asGabriel, commanded him saying: “read”and he respond by saying: “I am notlearned,” the angel repeat the act three times, then Muhammad (S) began torepeat the command of the angel which became the first five verse of surah 96,Al-Alaq, of the Qur’an. 

Ø  Read: In the name of thy Lord who created. Created man from a clot. Read:and thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who taught by the pen, Taught man which heknew not. (Q.96:1-5)

   Allahconform it in the Quran:

Ø  And thou (O Muhammad) was not (able) torecite a book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe itwith thy right hand: in that case indeed, would the talkers of vanity havedoubted. (Q.29:48)

Ø  Nor does he say (aught) of (his own)desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him. He was taught byone mighty in power. (Q.53:3-5)

Allah the almighty reminds the people who call themselvesChristian of their forgetfulness:

Ø  “From those, too, who called themselves Christians We did take a Covenant, But they forgot a good part of the message that was sent down: SoWe stirred up enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the Day ofJudgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. (Q.5:14)

TNC

]]> Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:41:25 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161989#161989 God’s written instructions for life. : &lt;&gt; THE... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161983#161983 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 February 2012 at 9:36am

<>THE GREAT NATION THAT COMES FROM ISHMAEL’S(S) SEEDS AND THE MIGHTY SRTONG ONE:

Who is that Great nation that willcome from Ishmael’s seeds?

The OT mentioned Ishmael dwelt in the wilderness in Paran;

“And he [Ishmael (S)] dwelt in thewilderness ofParan  (Genesis21:21).

AND THIS IS A PROPHECYCONCERNING “PARAN”:

Ø  …And the Holy One from Mount Paran. Se-lah. His Glorycovered the heaven, and the earth was full of his praise. (Habakkuk.3:3)

 It mentioned about the Holy Onefrom Mt. Paran.

This Holy One from Mount Paran; when he came he defeated his enemy andestablishes Salvation. It also mentioned: “even Salvation for the Anointed”.That would mean, the second coming of the Messiah (Anointed) to establish theHoly One from message 

Ø  “…at the light of thine arrows they went, and at theshining of thy glittering spear. Thou didst tresh the heathen in anger. Thouwentest forth for Salvation ofthy people, even Salvationfor the ANOINTED; thou woundedstthe head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto theneck. Se-lah.” (Habk.3:11-13)

Ø He stood and measured the earth:he beheld and drove asunder the nations…His way are everlasting. (Habk.3:6)

 Measuredthe earth: Meaning: His messageis for the whole earth (universal message) and His way are everlasting.

In the Quran itmentioned that Muhammad (S) was sent as a UNIVERSAL PROPHET:

“We have not sent thee but as a (universal Messenger) to ALL mankind,giving glad tiding and warn them (against sin), but most of mankind knowsnot.” (Q.34:28)

And Habakkuk mentioned:

Ø  …When he cometh upunto the people, he will invade them with his troops. (Habk.3:16)

History of Islam have is that Muhammad (S) invade Mecca with ten thousand followers only kill six persons who were among theleaders:

Ø  Thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked,by discovering the foundation unto theneck. Se-lah. (Habk.3:13)

The advent of Muhammad (S) in the book of Revelation:

Ø  “…when the lamb opened one of the seal…behold a whitehorse: he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, andto conquer.” Rev.6:1-2

It is also mentioned in Duet.33:2 (KJV):

Ø  “And he [Moses (S)] said: the Lord came from Sinai, and rose from Sir unto them; He shinedforth from Mount Paran, and he came with “tenthousand Saints”: from his right hand went a “fiery Law” for them.”

In these words the Lord has been compared with the “sun.” He comes fromSinai, he rises from Seir, but he shinesin his full glory from Paran, where he had to appear with ten thousands of saints with a fiery law in his right hand.

 

 Also in Jude1:14-15

Ø  And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied ofthese, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15To execute judgmentupon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them ofall their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all theirhard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jude1:14-15

That is exactly what Muhammad (S) did: He (S) came with ten thousandsaints, He (S) execute judgment upon all, He convince allthat were ungodly among His people of their ungodly deeds which theyhave ungodly committed and of all their hard speeches which they ungodlysinners have spoken against him. You don’t have to believe me, go to theinternet and look his’ history for yourself; and Jude 1:15 mentioned there: “15To execute judgment upon all”

Allah (S)conform it in the Qur’an:

Ø  “Blessed is He who sent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong) to His Servant,that it may be an admonition to all creatures. (Q.25:1)

Ø  Thus have Werevealed it (the Qur’an) to be a judgmentof authority in Arabic (Q.13:37)

Ø  Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear(Signs) for guidance and Judgment(Between right and wrong).” (Qur’an 2:185)

  Muhammad (S) received revelation in the caveof Mount Hira in Arabia (Paran), later to be known as Jabal-un-Noor (Mountainof Light). After his migration to Medina, he returns and invades Mecca with “ten thousand Saints” and heestablishes the “fiery Law” (Islamiclaw). Moses (S) is the only law giver inthe bible and he prophesies another law giver in Duet.33:2 (KJV):

For the LAW wasgiven by Moses (John.1:17).

The new law giverwas also prophesy in Isaiah 42 which I have already explain in chapter 8.

Ø  “Behold my servant,whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth: I have put my Spiritupon him: he shall bring forth judgmentto the Gentile.” (Iasiah.42:1)

Ø  He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he has set judgment in the earth: and the islesshall wait for His LAW.(Isaiah.42:4)

The new law was described as the new Song forall mankind in Isaiah42:

Ø  9-Behold, the former things are come to pass, and newthings do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you. (Isaiah.42:9)

Ø  10-Sing unto the Lord a new song and his praise from the end of the earth… (Isaiah.42:10) 

In Habakkuk 3 verse4 mentioned:

Ø  And his (the Holy one from Mt. Paran) brightnesswas as the light, he had hornscoming out of his hand. (Habk.3:4)

 Horns represent kings: Rev.17:12 and the ten horns…are ten kings.

That would mean he would be a king among hispeople and his message would be a light to them and the whole world. Allah (S)said:

Ø  “Oh Prophet! Truly, We have sent you as…a lamp spreading Light.” (Q.33:45-46)

Remember what the God of the OT said to concern the Kedarites (Ishmael’sdescendants)? He will bring them from darkness to light.

Ø  16-And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not;I will lead them in the path that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crookedthings straight. These things will I do unto them (Kedarites: Ishmaelite), andnot forsake them. (Isaiah.42:16)

                 TNC



Edited by truthnowcome - 07 February 2012 at 9:40am]]> Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:36:28 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161983#161983 God’s written instructions for life. : &lt;&gt; MR.... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161982#161982 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 February 2012 at 9:30am

<>

MR. KISH, SOMETHING WRONG WITH THECOVENANT WITH ISAAC and I GUESS YOU DON’T KNOW.

Let me show you what wrong with theCovenant with Isaac.

In Isaiah28:14-15 THE JEWS DECLARE THEIR POSITION ON THE COVENANT:

14- Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, thatrule this people which are in Jerusalem. 15-Because ye have said, We have madea COVENANT WITH DEATH,and hell are we at agreement; When theoverflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: forwe made LIES our refuge, and under FALSEHOOD have we hide ourselves.(Isaiah.28:13)

Muhammad(S) was that Mighty Strong One mentioned in verse 2, He (S) was the onlyProphet who claimed to have followed the religion of Abraham (S) and speak tothe Jews in another language (“Forprecept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line uponline; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lip another tongue will he speakto this people Isaiah.28:7-9.)

. In verse17 he will bring judgment (17Judgments also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet…) andthe Qur’an conforms that: “Blessed is Hewho sent down the Criterion (of judgmentbetween right and wrong) to His Servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures.” (Q.25:1)

When the Mighty Strong one come God himself will teachhim (V.26), he will speak to the Jews in another language (V.7-9), at that timethe Jewish people would be in a state of evilness and corruptions (V.10-11) andIn verse 26 he will establish the corner stone which Jesus (S) spoke of inMatthew 21:42-43 when he said: “… Did yenever read in the scriptures, the stone which the builders reject the same isbecome the head of the corner: This is the Lord’s doings, and it is marvelous in our eyes.Therefore say I unto you The kingdom of God shall taken from you, and given toa nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” That nation is theIshmaelite the seed of Abraham!

When THEMIGHTY COMES WITH THE REVELATION to them (the Jews), this is what the God ofAbraham (S) said would happen to them:

Ø  13- But the word of the Lord was unto them preceptupon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here alittle, and there a little; might go, and fall backwards, and be broken, andsnared and taken.

Why Goddid that? It is because they leader of the Jews took a “COVENANT WITH DEATH ANDAGREE TO DO EVIL” GOD ALMIGHTY DISCRIBE THEM AS SCORNFULL MEN WHO HIDEUNDER FALSE HOOD AND LIES”.

THECOVENANT:

Ø  14- Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, thatrule this people which are in Jerusalem.

Ø  15-Because ye have said, We have made a COVENANT WITH DEATH,and hell are we at agreement; When theoverflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: forwe made LIES our refuge, and under FALSEHOOD have we hide ourselves.(Isaiah.28:13)

Also, inverse 15 there, it mentioned: “it shall not come unto us”. That is a contradiction because verse 18 and 19mentioned: “yeshall be trodden down by it”

Ø  18- And your COVENANT WITH DEATH shall be disannulled, and your agreement withhell shall not stand; When theoverflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.19- From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morningshall it pass over, by day and by night, and it shall be vexation only to understand the report (Isaiah.28:19)

In otherwords, when Muhammad (S) comes upon them (the leaders of the Jews) then theywill be trodden down by it from the time that it goeth forth, it will take themby surprise, all their lies and false hood will expose, their evil plot(covenant with death) will not succeed and it will be vexation for them (the scornful men) when they knew the truth about Muhammad(S), isn’t that a fact? O yes! 



Edited by truthnowcome - 07 February 2012 at 9:31am]]> Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:30:02 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161982#161982 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161981#161981 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 February 2012 at 9:27am

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by truthnowcome

That nation is no other than Ishmaelite, Abraham’s (S) seeds. The God of Abraham’s promise to bless Abraham’s son Ishmael and make him a Great nation:
And as for Ishmael…Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and multiply him exceedingly…and I will make aGREAT NATION. (Genesis 17:20 )


Yea, Yea, Yea, big deal! As the Holy Scriptures says in Geneses 17, the SAME chapter you quoted but the verses BEFORE and AFTER verse 20

He will certainly produce twelve chieftains, and I will make him become a great nation.

Not ONE of the Ishmaelite never, ever mention any Prophet or Messenger of God because they never heard or knew of a Muhammad and never ever worshipped the God of Abraham.

Geneses 17:19 … and you must call his name Isaac. And I will establish my covenant with him for a covenant to time indefinite to his seed (Jesus)after him

Geneses 17:21 However, my covenant I shall establish with ISAAC, whom Sarah will bear to you at this appointed time next year.

Why did TNC intentionally leave verses 19 and 21 out that says Isaac?

The same reason why the God of Israel, The Holy Scriptures, Moses, Jesus, Abraham, Hagar, Ishmael and the 12 chieftains left it out, Ishmael was NEVER included with Jehovah God’s covenant, only Isaac was included and no one else! AGAIN, another example where Muslims pick and choose for Muhammad, they believe verse 20 but not verses19, 20 and 21.

Geneses 17:19,21 12 Chieftains 

If you are reading the OT with youreyes close I am not! What you quoted there is what you were program to believe.

 

I don’t have a problem with thecovenant of Isaac and his seed (Jesus). You have a problem to prove to me, whois that Great nation that will come from Ishmael’s seeds.

  The OT mentioned that the God of theIsraelite will bless them in the land he has given them if only they keep thecommandment of God and walk in his way and the people of the earth will callGod Almighty by his name:

Ø  The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thystorehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shallbless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. The LORD shallestablish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, ifthou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways. Andall people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee. (Deut.28:8-10) 

The Jews didn’tfulfill their part of commitment, they didn’t walk in his way; they departedout of his way. It mentioned in Malachi2:8-9

Ø  7Forthe priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at hismouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8Butye (Opriests) are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have CORRUPTED THE COVENANT OF LEVI, saith the LORD of hosts. 9Thereforehave I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partialin the law. Malachi2:8-9

Malachi 2

1And now, O ye priests, this commandment isfor you.

Ø  2If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart,to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curseupon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already,because ye do not lay it to heart. 3Behold, I will corrupt your seed,and spread dung upon your faces,even the dung of your solemn feasts;and one shall take you away with it.

Ø  4And ye shall know that I have sent thiscommandment unto you, that my COVENANT MIGHT BE WITH LEVI, saith the LORD ofhosts.

Ø  5Mycovenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fearwherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

Ø  6Thelaw of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: hewalked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

Ø  7Forthe priest's lips should keepknowledge, and they should seek the lawat his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Ø  8But ye (O priests)are departed out of the way; ye havecaused many to stumble at the law;ye have CORRUPTED THE COVENANT OF LEVI,saith the LORD of hosts.

Ø  9Thereforehave I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have beenpartial in the law.

Ø  10Have we not all onefather? hath not one God created us? whydo we deal treacherously every man against his brother, BYPROFANING THE COVENANT OF OUR FATHERS?

Ø  11 Judah hath dealt treacherously,and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hathprofaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughterof a strange god.

Ø 12TheLORD will cut off the man that doeththis, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto theLORD of hosts.

JESUS (S) CONFORMSIT WHEN HE SAID:

“Therefore say I [Jesus (pbuh)] unto you, thekingdom of God shall be taken from you (Jews), and given to a nation bringing forththe fruit thereof.” (Matt.21:43)

TNC

BUT WAITE, THEY DID MORE THAN THAT!READ THE FOLLOWING POST:

]]> Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:27:30 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161981#161981 God’s written instructions for life. : &lt;... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161979#161979 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 07 February 2012 at 8:43am

<>

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by truthnowcome

Christiansdon’t follow the “GOSPEL” they follow the bible…


Wrong! I have shown and proved otherwise using the scriptures!

Originally posted by truthnowcome

First you claimed God is Jehovah and Jesus (S) is his’ son
Then you said Jesus is Jehovah.


Another lie! Show the forum where I said “Jesus is Jehovah”

If Jehovah is your God

And Jesus (S) is your God

Are they two Gods?

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Edited by truthnowcome - 07 February 2012 at 9:19am]]> Tue, 07 Feb 2012 08:43:11 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161979#161979 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish, Could you please tell us... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161956#161956 Author: iec786
Subject: 21316
Posted: 06 February 2012 at 10:14pm

Kish,

Could you please tell us when you quote which Bible are you using?you see the quotation that you giving is not in my Bible and do you accept all the Bibles are the true words of God from cover to cover?

I am asking this so that you can clear up misunderstandings
of the many translations of the Bible. ]]> Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:14:59 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161956#161956 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by truthnowcomeChristians... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161894#161894 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 04 February 2012 at 12:00pm

Originally posted by truthnowcome

Christians don’t follow the “GOSPEL” they follow the bible…


Wrong! I have shown and proved otherwise using the scriptures!

Originally posted by truthnowcome

First you claimed God is Jehovah and Jesus (S) is his’ son
Then you said Jesus is Jehovah.


Another lie! Show the forum where I said “Jesus is Jehovah”

Originally posted by kish

Who identified this angel Gabriel?
Who called him to be God’s messenger?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call “miraculous” event?


Questions that I have asked you over and over again but you or anyone on this forum attempted to give any answer too. So you do what you do best and change the subject . . .

Originally posted by truthnowcome

That nation is no other than Ishmaelite, Abraham’s (S) seeds. The God of Abraham’s promise to bless Abraham’s son Ishmael and make him a Great nation:
And as for Ishmael…Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and multiply him exceedingly…and I will make aGREAT NATION. (Genesis 17:20 )


Yea, Yea, Yea, big deal! As the Holy Scriptures says in Geneses 17, the SAME chapter you quoted but the verses BEFORE and AFTER verse 20

He will certainly produce twelve chieftains, and I will make him become a great nation.

Not ONE of the Ishmaelite never, ever mention any Prophet or Messenger of God because they never heard or knew of a Muhammad and never ever worshipped the God of Abraham.

Geneses 17:19 … and you must call his name Isaac. And I will establish my covenant with him for a covenant to time indefinite to his seed (Jesus)after him

Geneses 17:21 However, my covenant I shall establish with ISAAC, whom Sarah will bear to you at this appointed time next year.

Why did TNC intentionally leave verses 19 and 21 out that says Isaac?

The same reason why the God of Israel, The Holy Scriptures, Moses, Jesus, Abraham, Hagar, Ishmael and the 12 chieftains left it out, Ishmael was NEVER included with Jehovah God’s covenant, only Isaac was included and no one else! AGAIN, another example where Muslims pick and choose for Muhammad, they believe verse 20 but not verses19, 20 and 21.

Geneses 17:19,21 12 Chieftains

Originally posted by kish

IF YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION I KNOW FOR SURE YOU ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH THE TRUTH AND SHOULD LEAVE THE FORUM NOW!!! LOL


Originally posted by kish

Who identified the angel Gabriel?
Who called Muhammad to be God’s messenger?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call “miraculous” event?



Edited by Kish - 04 February 2012 at 12:07pm]]> Sat, 04 Feb 2012 12:00:09 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161894#161894 God’s written instructions for life. : &lt;&gt; After... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161882#161882 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 03 February 2012 at 5:52pm

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After explained the above this is what Jesus (S) said in Matt.21:43

 

Ø  “Therefore say I unto you The kingdom of God shall taken from you,and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof..” Matt.21:43

Ø  Jesus said unto them, Did ye never read in thescriptures, the stone which the builders reject the same is become the head ofthe corner: This is the Lord’s doings, and it is marvelous in our eyes. (Matt.21:42)

Ø  And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall broken: butwhomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. (Matt.21:44)

  If you reject Jesus (S) you rejecthis message, and the stone “representhis message” and it shall bear fruitand be marvelous in our eyes under another nation. Sure, Jesus (S) is not “marvelous in our eyes,” His messagedoes, and whosoever tries to destroy that Message shall not succeed, and whereso ever the message goes it will prevail.

Ø  Therefore say I unto you The kingdom of God shall takenfrom you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Matt.21:43

  That nation is no other than Ishmaelite,Abraham’s (S) seeds. The God of Abraham’s promise to bless Abraham’s sonIshmael and make him a Great nation:

  And as for Ishmael…Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and multiply him exceedingly…and I will make a GREAT NATION. (Genesis 17:20 )

 Why it was taken away? Becausethe Jews broke the covenant “…in thatthey (Jews) broke the Covenant; that they reject the signs of Allah;that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right…Allah hath set the sealon their hearts for their blasphemy…That they REJECTED FAITH…” (Q.4:155-156).

]]> Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:52:28 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161882#161882 God’s written instructions for life. : /* Font Definiti&#111;ns */ @font-face ... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161881#161881 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 03 February 2012 at 5:41pm

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by truthnowcome

PAUL AND YOU BELIEVE HE IS GOD! BLIND


What does the Holy Scriptures say when you compare it to Islam falseconclusions?

Immediately in the synagogues he (Paul) began to preach Jesus, that this One isthe Son of God. ( Acts 9:20)

Paul said - For, there being an incapability on the part of the Law, while itwas weak through the flesh, God, by sending his own Son Romans 8:1-4, verse 32say’s He who did not even spare his own SON but delivered him up for us all

Acts 26:22, 23 Paul - but saying nothing except things the Prophets as well asMoses stated were going to take place, 23 that the Christ was to suffer and, asthe first to be resurrected from the dead

IT IS NOT PAUL BUT MUHAMMAD WHO TEACHES THAT JESUS IS NOT GOD’S SON AND HAS NOTBEEN RESURRECTED!!! MUHAMMAD HAS AN AGENDA!!!! BUT IT WILL NOT PREVAIL!!!

I guess you will grab one scripture in the NT and try to manipulate it to fityour FASLE propaganda again.
Kish
Mr. KISH, IT CAN ONLY BE FALSE WHEN IT IS PROVEN “FALSE” and you neverrefute even “ONE” of my point I have established; and if you call Isaiah 28,29, 42; Deut.33; Habakkuk 3; Revelation 10, 11, 12, 14 ONE SCRIPTURE  something wrong with your head; I think youneed a check up, some screw slack some where in your head.

First you claimed God is Jehovah andJesus (S) is his’ son

Then you said Jesus is Jehovah.

You don’t even know what youbelieve!

I am posting this article to dealwith both.

Who Jesus (S) said he is and Whereis the church

  To explain who Jesus (S) is I will begin withquoting from the Qur’an. We Muslims believed that all the miracle he did waswith the permission of Allah (S). It is mentioned in the Qur'an 3: 49-51 That Jesus (S) said:  “Lo! Icome unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay thelikeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, andI raise the dead, by Allah's leave.And I announce to you what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo!herein verily is a portent for you if you are to be believers.
And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to makelawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a signfrom your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worshipHim. That is a straight path.”

 The bible also supported theQur’an in that statement of Jesus’ (S), he said: “I can of Myself do nothing.As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.” (John.5:30); “For I have notspoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what Ishould speak.”  (John 12:49)

JESUS (S) REVEALED HIS TRUE IDENTITY TO HISDISCIPLES

It isstated in Matthew16:13-15:

Ø  “When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, heasked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14Andthey said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others,Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?” Matthew16:13-15

  Very important question, he isabout to let you know who he is.

Ø  V.16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ,the Son of the living God.” Matt.16:16

 Note: the word "Christ"is Messiah in Hebrew:

Ø   John1:41 “He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have foundthe Messiah, which is, being interpreted,the Christ;” andin John4:25-26 “The woman saith unto him, Iknow that Messiah cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he willtell us all things. 26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”

Having saidthat, let us look at the Verse17:

Ø  Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, SimonBar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.V.18 AndI also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church,and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Matt.16:17

 Notevery important: Jesus (S) made his claimed that he is the Messiah(foretold in the OT.), the Son of the living God; he didn’t claimed he is GodAlmighty! 

When Jesus(S) mentioned, “he is the Messiah, the Son of the living God”, thatdoes not mean God has a biological son or he is a part of God as Christiansbelieve; they misunderstood Jesus (S) statement in context of his message. Thebible clearly stated Adam (S) the first Man the God of the bible created is hisson and anyone who led by the spirit of God is the sons of God; and Jesus (S)falls in that category.

The biblesays:

Ø  “…Adam, which wasthe son of God.” Luke3:38  

Ø  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are theSons of God. ( Romans8:14)

Jesus (S) was led by the spirit of God:

Ø  “I sawthe Spirit descending from heaven..., and abode upon him.”(John 1:32)

Ø  "...I cast out devils by the Spirit of God then the kingdomof God is come unto you." (Matthew 12:28)

Ø   "I can of mine own self do nothing " (John 5:30)


JESUS (S) EXPLAINED WHAT HE MEANT BY SAYING HE IS THEMESSIAH SON OF THE LIVING GOD.

Let us look at John10:23-32; this explanation was given by thelate Ahmad Deedat (May Allah (S) grant him Jannah):

Ø  23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

Ø  24 Thencame the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us todoubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

Ø  25 Jesusanswered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in myFather's name, they bear witness of me.

Ø  26 But yebelieve not, because ye are not of my sheep...

 Jesus(S) rebuts the false charge of the Jews that he was ambiguous in his claims tobe the Messiah that they were waiting for. He says that he didtell them clearly enough, yet they would not listen to him. So he said:

Ø  27 Mysheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Ø  28 And Igive unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any manpluck them out of my hand.

Ø  29 MyFather, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of myFather's hand.

 Yousee the exactness of the ending of the last two verses?

 Pluck them out of “my hand”

 Pluck them out of “my Father's hand.”

 He istelling the Jews the "REAL UNITY" or "RELATIONSHIP" betweenthe Father and the son. The most crucial verse -

Ø  V.30 - I and my Father areone.

 One inwhat, DIVINITY? NO! ONE IN "PURPOSE" Once a believer has acceptedfaith, then Jesus (S) sees to it he remain in faith and God Almighty also seesto it that he remains in faith. This is the "PURPOSE" of the"Father" and the "son" and the "Holy Ghost" andof "every man and every woman of faith". John said that in John 17:21

Ø  That they "ALL"may be "ONE"; as thou,Father, art in me, and I in thee, that also may be "ONE" in "US"...Iin them, and "THOU (THE DICIPLES) in “ME(JESUS)”, that "THEY (ALL) may be made "PERFECT in ONE"... John 17:21

 The Jews also miss the point like allChristians.

Ø  31Thenthe Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Ø  32 - Jesusanswered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which ofthose works do ye stone me?

Ø  33-TheJews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but forblasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Ø 34-Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, Isaid, Ye are gods?

Ø  35-If he(God Almighty) called them (the Jews) gods, unto whom the word of God came, andthe scripture cannot be broken;

Ø  36-Say yeof him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thoublasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? John10:23-36

Jesus said: "YOUR LAW... YE AREGODS." He is quoting from 82nd. Psalm V.6 “I have said, YEARE GODS: and all of you are children of the most High.”

 Jesusis saying, "If He (God Almighty) called them (The Jews) God, unto whom theword of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken (in other words - YOUCAN'T CONTRADICT ME!)." He knows his scripture; if good men, holy men,prophets of God are address as 'GODS' in our Books of authority, with which youfind no fault - then why do you take exception to me?

So, as you can clearly Jesus (S) himself explained his position as theson of God.

Ø  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are theSons of God. ( Romans8:14)

JESUS (S) DECLARED WHERE WOULD BE THE CHURCH.

 Remember what Jesus (S) said in Matt.16:15-18?He said: “Bless art thou, Simon Bar-jona:for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is inheaven. And I say also unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rockI will build my church; and thegates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

  Peter name was “Simon Bar-jona” and Jesus (S) change his name to“Peter” (Little Rock). The Rock represent Peter’s message; and upon thisrock I will build my church. Peter was the only one knew who Jesus (S) was whenhe said: “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,”he understood that anyone led by the Spirit of God is the Son of God.

Ø  For as many as areled by the Spirit of God, they are the Sons of God. (Romans.8:14)

Ø  “…the Lord hath said unto me, (David) Thou art my son:this day have I begotten thee.” (Psalms.2:7)

Jesus (S) was led by Spirit of God:

Ø  “And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spiritdescending from heaven…and abode upon him.” (John.1:32)

Ø  …I cast out devil bythe Spirit of God. Then the kingdom ofGod is come unto you. (Matt.12:28)

Ø  I can of mine ownself do nothing… (John.5:30)

Ø  …I with the finger of God cast out devil… (Luke.11:20)

Ø  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is inheaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. (Matthew 12:50) 

Peter testimony when address the Jews:

Ø  “Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, “aman approve of God” among you by miracles and wonders and sign, which God did by him in the midst ofyou, as you your self also know” (Acts 2:22)

And Jesus (S) said:

Ø  "I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." (John 13:16)

Ø  Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine,but His who sent Me.” (John 7:16)

Which Church teachesthat Jesus (S) is a man approve of God? Islam!!

And he (S) said:

Ø  “And the gate of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Matt.16:18)

In Qur’an it stated in 74:31 “AndWe have set non but angels as guardian of the fire…”

 Jesus (S) in Islam, he said:

Ø  “Lo! I come unto you with a sign from yourLord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breatheinto it and it is a bird by Allah'sleave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce to youwhat you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is aportent for you if you are to be believers.

And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to makelawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a signfrom your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worshipHim. That is a straight path. Qur'an 3: 49-51

Jesus (S)conforms:

Ø  “And Jesus answered him, The first of all thecommandments is, Hear, O Israel; TheLord our God is one Lord: V.30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul,and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.” Mark12:29-30

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From the aboveexplanation we can conclude that Jesus (S) was not a biological son of God or apart of the God head as the Christ’s commentators lead the Christians tobelieve. He was the Messiah sent to the children of the house of Israel andthey rejected him; so the church was removed from them (the children of Israel)and given to another nation [the children of Ishmael which is the seed ofAbraham (S)].






Edited by truthnowcome - 03 February 2012 at 5:47pm]]> Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:41:17 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161881#161881 God’s written instructions for life. : &lt;... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161880#161880 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 03 February 2012 at 5:19pm

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Originally posted by Kish

As Imentioned Christians follow the teachings of Christ, we are Christ followers.
Originally posted by truthnowcome

Christians don’t follow the “GOSPEL” they follow thebible…


Let me show you where and why you are mistakenly wrong . . .
“If anyone wants to come after me (Jesus,) let him disown himself and pick uphis torture stake day after day and follow me.”—LUKE 9:23.

…and you will have treasure in heaven, and come be my follower.” (Mark 10:21)

Jesus had said to Philip: “Be my follower.” (John 1:43)

Jesus repeated the invitation to Matthew, and he too accepted it. (Matt. 9:9)

Islam’s teaching of who Christians follow is another false and wrong accusationaccording to Jesus Christ himself! Therefore Muhammad is NOT on Jesus’ side andaccording to Jesus - He that is not on my side is against me, and he that doesnot gather with me scatters. - Matt. 12:30

Kish
Those quotes is far from what I have explained and you don’t understandthe meaning of it! It means, following Jesus (S) it to follow his message, andhis message WAS THE GOOD NEWS OF THE COMING OF GOD’S KINGDOM ON EARTH.

JESUS (S): "I must preach kingdom of God to the other citiesalso, BECAUSE FOR THIS PURPOSE I HAVE BEEN SENT" LUKE4:43 NKJV

]]> Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:19:01 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161880#161880 God’s written instructions for life. : As I mentioned Christians follow... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161803#161803 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 01 February 2012 at 8:27am

As I mentioned Christians follow the teachings of Christ, we are Christ followers.
Originally posted by truthnowcome

Christians don’t follow the “GOSPEL” they follow the bible…


Let me show you where and why you are mistakenly wrong . . .
“If anyone wants to come after me (Jesus,) let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake day after day and follow me.”—LUKE 9:23.

…and you will have treasure in heaven, and come be my follower.” (Mark 10:21)

Jesus had said to Philip: “Be my follower.” (John 1:43)

Jesus repeated the invitation to Matthew, and he too accepted it. (Matt. 9:9)

Islam’s teaching of who Christians follow is another false and wrong accusation according to Jesus Christ himself! Therefore Muhammad is NOT on Jesus’ side and according to Jesus - He that is not on my side is against me, and he that does not gather with me scatters. - Matt. 12:30

Originally posted by truthnowcome

PAUL AND YOU BELIEVE HE IS GOD! BLIND


What does the Holy Scriptures say when you compare it to Islam false conclusions?

Immediately in the synagogues he (Paul) began to preach Jesus, that this One is the Son of God. ( Acts 9:20)

Paul said - For, there being an incapability on the part of the Law, while it was weak through the flesh, God, by sending his own Son Romans 8:1-4, verse 32 say’s He who did not even spare his own SON but delivered him up for us all

Acts 26:22, 23 Paul - but saying nothing except things the Prophets as well as Moses stated were going to take place, 23 that the Christ was to suffer and, as the first to be resurrected from the dead

IT IS NOT PAUL BUT MUHAMMAD WHO TEACHES THAT JESUS IS NOT GOD’S SON AND HAS NOT BEEN RESURRECTED!!! MUHAMMAD HAS AN AGENDA!!!! BUT IT WILL NOT PREVAIL!!!

I guess you will grab one scripture in the NT and try to manipulate it to fit your FASLE propaganda again.

Jesus is a mighty god according to the Gospel!!! He was the “WORD” God’s spokesmen and representative!!! That is why some translations say he is “divine”!!!

The Emphatic Diaglott of John 1:1 John 1:1 In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.

New World Translation John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god

The word god means MIGHTY one, so yes Jesus (the Word) according to the Holy Scriptures is a MIGHTY one, a god! You don’t have to like it but that is the way it is!

“In John 1:1, the Word is not the one-and-only God, but is a god, or [b/divine being.” Or to put it in the words of Joseph Henry Thayer, a scholar who worked on the American Standard Version: “The Logos [or, Word] was divine, not the divine Being himself.”

Other scriptures to shed light on this subject of TRUTH! Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant!

John 10:33, 34, The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” 34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I (Jesus) said: “YOU are gods”’?

Jesus was referring to - Psalm 82:1-6 God is stationing himself in the assembly of the Divine One; In the middle of the gods he judges … 6 “I myself have said, ‘YOU are gods, And all of YOU are sons of the Most High

Both expressions refer to human judges in Israel. Why? Because, they were to serve as God’s spokesmen and representatives.—John 10:33-36

As shown by Paul, John and the other Apostles they ALLpreached the Gospel of Jesus as the “son of God” like Christians do today, Islam teaches a different Gospel, one that is being “EXPOSED” as you yourself have just read!!! Muhammad commands you not to reject the book, READ FOR YOURSELF . . .

Q 40:70 Those who reject the Book and the (revelations) with which We sent our apostles: but soon shall they know,-

Back to my questions TRUTHNOWCOME:

Originally posted by kish

Who identified this angel?
Who called him to be God’s messenger?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call “miraculous” event?

IF YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION I KNOW FOR SURE YOU ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH THE TRUTH AND SHOULD LEAVE THE FORUM NOW!!! LOL

But seriously, your misunderstanding of basic teachings of the Holy Scriptures and closing your eyes to the TRUTH you are only paralyzing yourself and therefore unable to grasp the “true” meaning of the scriptures and are confused.

Originally posted by HONETO

28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."
Hasan


Both of you can try and answer the questions that I’ve asked instead of trying to save each other’s neck! Hasan, by the way, Islam doesn’t teach that Jesus has a father and that he is the son of God, who is the father here in this verse? I get it, you only believe in half the verse. Another GREAT example of Muslims picking and choosing what they want to believe to support their agenda.

“If you doubt what Muslims have revealed to you, ask those Christians who have read the Scriptures BEFORE you.” (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94) & (Surah Al ‘Imran: 84-85)

Kish


Edited by Kish - 01 February 2012 at 8:31am]]> Wed, 01 Feb 2012 08:27:55 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161803#161803 God’s written instructions for life. : WA SALAAM BRO.!I pray and do hope... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161781#161781 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 31 January 2012 at 1:20am

WA SALAAM BRO.!

I pray and do hope so, Inshallah. This guy is a propagandist, I know them when they come on this forum that is why I pull him up. You remember his first post?

Br. zainool
]]> Tue, 31 Jan 2012 01:20:06 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161781#161781 God’s written instructions for life. : Salam and great job TNC,... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161771#161771 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 30 January 2012 at 1:14pm

Salam and great job TNC, may Allah reward you for your good work. Kish seem to read and write but he seem to just do only that, have he paid attention to what he writes and read he could benefit from it for himself, and I pray that he may do so, one day, inshallah.
How could he not see things so clear like the ones you quoted, or my favorite for those who say that Jesus si God and is equal to God in power, may Allah protect us from their blasphemy.
"

John 14:28

King James Version (KJV)

28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 30 January 2012 at 1:16pm]]> Mon, 30 Jan 2012 13:14:08 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161771#161771 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161733#161733 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 28 January 2012 at 10:29pm

 
Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by truthnowcomes

Again,you are asking those same questions that can applies to St. Paul

First of all Paul did not bring the Gospel Jesus did as the Quran acknowledgesso that is a weak response and irrelevant. Christians follow the teachings ofChrist, we are Christ followers.
Secondly, you answered the question with another question.
    

WRONG!!!!!

Christiansdon’t follow the “GOSPEL” they follow the bible. There is a big differencebetween the Gospel of Jesus (S) and the bible. You can find that here on thislink:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21730

On that same link I haveestablished that Christians follow Paul.

 

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by truthnowcomes

yet you question the event of Muhammad (S) in the café.

Muhammad came with a NEW revelation as you said NOT Paul, stop trying to changethe subject.
    

 I didn’t change the subject, is you runningaround and coming back. It is your bible mentioned of a coming of a new messagebut not a new God. It is Paul who worship a new god (a man God) teaches othersto do so; and his’ man god has a God, which is our God:

Jesus (S) said:

“…Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father:but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father;and my God, and your God.” (John20:16-17 AKJV)

According to him, his Father is “OUR GOD and HISGOD; He has a GOD, He said: “MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.”

         And the followingverse he declared that he is not good only God is good, in reply tosomeone he (S) said to him:

"Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." (Mark 10:18)

Peter testimony whenaddress the Jews:

Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, “aman approve of God” among you by miracles and wonders and sign, which God did by him in the midst of you,as you your self also know” (Acts 2:22)

 

Originally posted by Kish


Originally posted by truthnowcomes

The book of revelation is a book by itself and you didn’tshow me where Muhammad (S) add to it;


Well, let me repost it again . . .

Originally posted by kish

Muhammad does not bear witness to Jesus or his father he deniesthem both!
    
Wrong again! Muhammad (S) testifiedthat Jesus (s) was a Messenger, a word and a spirit (Ruh) proceeding form Allah(S). Just as Jesus (S) thought his followers, it’s above. 

Originally posted by kish

Jesus also mentions John by name, where is Muhammad mentioned?
    
Mentioning by name is not relevant,Jesus (S) didn’t mention by name in the OT; it is the prophecy that matters,and you didn’t even refute “ONE” that I have “ESTABLISH”.

 

Originally posted by kish

Also, John is accredited with writing the book of Revelation, theQuran was added afterwards claiming to be the ‘final revelation’ from an angelwho only Muhammad identified as Gabriel, yes Muhammad took it upon himself andadded his uninspired words.

LIVE INDENIAL!! I have given you proof that the book of revelation Ch. 10 and 14foretold the Quran and you can’t even PROVE ME WRONG, THAT IS YOUR PLACE!


Originally posted by kish


The Apostle John believes Jesus to be God’s son; Muhammad does not in hisQuran!
    

AND PAUL AND YOU BELIEVE HE IS GOD! BLIND LEADING ANOTHERBLIND! IMAGIN YOU DOUBT JOHN.

The bible says:

Ø  “…Adam, which was the son of God.” Luke3:38  

Ø  “…the Lord hath said unto me, (David) Thou art my son:this day have I begotten thee.” (Psalms.2:7)

Ø  For as many as are led by the Spirit ofGod, they are the Sons of God. ( Romans 8:14)

Jesus(S) was led by the spirit of God:

Ø  “Isaw the Spirit descending from heaven..., and abode upon him.”(John 1:32)

Ø  "...Icast out devils by the Spirit of Godthen the kingdom of God is come unto you." (Matthew 12:28)

Ø   "I can of mine own self do nothing " (John 5:30)

Ø  Forwhosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. (Matthew 12:50) 

 

YOUDOUBT PETER TO? Peter testimony when address the Jews:

 

Ø  “Yemen of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth,“a man approve of God” amongyou by miracles and wonders and sign, which God did by him inthe midst of you, as you your self also know” (Acts 2:22)

And Jesus (S) said:

Ø "I tell you thetruth, no servant is greater thanhis master, nor is a messengergreater than the one who sent him." (John 13:16)

Originally posted by Kish

So here are the questions again in case you forgot that needs answering . . .

Originally posted by kish

Who identified this angel?
Who called him to be God’s messenger?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call“miraculous” event?

I’m waiting . . . . . . . . . . . . .

“If you doubt what we (Muslims) have revealed to you, ask those (Christians)who have read the Scriptures before you.” (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94)& (Surah Al ‘Imran: 84-85)
 
MAY THE CURSE OF ALAH BE UNTO YOU FOR WHAT YOU DO!

 

Sameanswer, Allah know there would be people like you so he record the event inIsaiah 29, he was foretold in the former revelation and Jesus testified of him:

 “And no man hathascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son ofman which is ‘IN’ heaven.” John 3:13 (KJV)

Jesus (S) was the Sonof man “ON” earth and he spokeabout “another” Son of man which is “IN” heaven. 

 

TNC




Edited by truthnowcome - 28 January 2012 at 10:33pm]]> Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:29:59 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161733#161733 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by truthnowcomes“…Touch... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161732#161732 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 28 January 2012 at 10:04pm

Originally posted by truthnowcomes

“…Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and my God, and your God.” (John 20:16-17 AKJV) According to him, his Father is “OUR GOD and HIS GOD; He has a GOD, He said: “MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.”

Since you quoted John 20:17 above you agree that Jesus HAS a father, VERY GOOD, I agree!
But, then you said . . .
Originally posted by truthnowcomes

I have given you the answer above, the Father is Jesus’

How can the father be Jesus when Jesus said I have not yet ascended to my father? You are contradicting the Apostle John. Unless, you believe that ALL three are one in the same.
Originally posted by truthnowcomes

   “...we have an “advocate” with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” (1John.2:1)

So for everyone to understand, who is the Father here?
If there is a father there must be a son. Who is the son? Then I asked you . . .
Originally posted by kish

was this “comforter” a book, a person, or something else?

You said . . .
Originally posted by truthnowcomes

Jesus (S) was a “Comforter”

How can Jesus be the comforter when Jesus said “HE” was sending a comforter?
How can Jesus be the Father when Jesus said “I have not yet ascended to my father”?
Where is the comforter in John 1:1?
]]> Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:04:44 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161732#161732 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by truthnowcomesAgain,... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161701#161701 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 27 January 2012 at 11:09am

Originally posted by truthnowcomes

Again, you are asking those same questions that can applies to St. Paul


First of all Paul did not bring the Gospel Jesus did as the Quran acknowledges so that is a weak response and irrelevant. Christians follow the teachings of Christ, we are Christ followers.

Secondly, you answered the question with another question.

Originally posted by truthnowcomes

yet you question the event of Muhammad (S) in the café.


Muhammad came with a NEW revelation as you said NOT Paul, stop trying to change the subject.

Originally posted by truthnowcomes

The book of revelation is a book by itself and you didn’t show me where Muhammad (S) add to it;


Well, let me repost it again . . .

Originally posted by kish

Muhammad does not bear witness to Jesus or his father he denies them both! Jesus also mentions John by name, where is Muhammad mentioned? Also, John is accredited with writing the book of Revelation, the Quran was added afterwards claiming to be the ‘final revelation’ from an angel who only Muhammad identified as Gabriel, yes Muhammad took it upon himself and added his uninspired words.


The Apostle John believes Jesus to be God’s son; Muhammad does not in his Quran!

Muhammad does not bear witness to Jesus as did John; Muhammad denies Jesus’ father in the heavens and his resurrection in his Quran.

Muhammad denies John FINAL Revelation and says his Quran is the final revelation.

John writes to the seven congregations to help them, Muhammad denies AND wont to hurt the Christian congregation.

YES, he ADDED falsehood using his Quran!

Must I go on . . .?

So here are the questions again in case you forgot that needs answering . . .

Originally posted by kish

Who identified this angel?
Who called him to be God’s messenger?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call “miraculous” event?


I’m waiting . . . . . . . . . . . . .

“If you doubt what we (Muslims) have revealed to you, ask those (Christians) who have read the Scriptures before you.” (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94) & (Surah Al ‘Imran: 84-85)

    

Edited by Kish - 28 January 2012 at 11:24am]]> Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:09:13 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161701#161701 God’s written instructions for life. : &lt;... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161658#161658 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 25 January 2012 at 10:34pm

<>

Originally posted by Kish

TNC, arewe going to have a discussion or are you just going to throw your hands up,rant and rave without answering these questions?
Originally posted by kish

TNC, who identified this angel, tell me if you could?
Who called him to be God’s messenger, tell me if you could?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call“miraculous” event tell me if you could?

If all three of these answers are Muhammad, then Muslims have been miss-leadsince day one by the one and only self-proclaimed eye witness, Muhammad!
 

 

Again,you are asking those same questions that can applies to St. Paul where he andthe men that were with him didn’t “SAW” Jesus (S), they just heard a voice telling them “he is Jesus”.No “eye witness!” yet you questionthe event of Muhammad (S) in the café. I have told you that the God of Abraham(S) knew there would be people like you so he revealed it to Isaiah and it wasrecord in Ch.29:11-12, I have given you overwhelming evidence and you ignorethem. Prove me wrong on Isaiah 29!

 

Jesus(S) spoke of people like you, he said:

·       14”And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, whichsaith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shallsee, and shall not perceive:

·       15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their earsare dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time theyshould see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, andshould be converted, and I should heal them.”

 

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by truthnowcome

What the adding anything to the book of revelation (a bookof prophesy) has to do with Muhammad’s (S) Book? Can you show me in the book ofrevelation where Muhammad (S) adds anything please?

Revelation 1:1, 9 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him … I John,YOUR brother and a sharer with YOU in the tribulation and kingdom and endurancein company with Jesus, came to be in the isle that is called Pat′mosfor speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus
Muhammad does not bear witness to Jesus or his father he denies them both!Jesus also mentions John by name, where is Muhammad mentioned? Also, John isaccredited with writing the book of Revelation, the Quran was added afterwardsclaiming to be the ‘final revelation’ from an angel who only Muhammadidentified as Gabriel, yes Muhammad took it upon himself and added hisuninspired words.

That not an answer Mr.Kish! Nice try!The book of revelation is a book by itself and you didn’t show me where Muhammad (S) add to it; but I have givenyou proof that the book of revelation fore told the Quran in rev.10 and 14 andyou didn’t even “TRY’ to refute me. PROVE ME WRONG IF YOU CAN!!!

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep thosethings which are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev.1:3

Originally posted by Kish


John also bears witness that Jesus is the ‘son of God’ something Muhammad, theQuran and Islam denies and speaks against.

John to the seven churches which are in Asia:Grace be unto you, and peace, from “him”which is, and which was, and which is to come; “and” from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; V.5“And” from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness… Rev.1: 4-5

I didn’t see “son”mentioned there, it says, “faithful witness”.

Ifyou want to discuss if Jesus (s) is the son of God then open another thread onit.

 

TNC

<>]]> Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:34:30 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161658#161658 God’s written instructions for life. : TNC, are we going to have a discussion... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161646#161646 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 25 January 2012 at 12:56pm

TNC, are we going to have a discussion or are you just going to throw your hands up, rant and rave without answering these questions?
Originally posted by kish

TNC, who identified this angel, tell me if you could?
Who called him to be God’s messenger, tell me if you could?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call “miraculous” event tell me if you could?

If all three of these answers are Muhammad, then Muslims have been miss-lead since day one by the one and only self-proclaimed eye witness, Muhammad!

Originally posted by truthnowcome

What the adding anything to the book of revelation (a book of prophesy) has to do with Muhammad’s (S) Book? Can you show me in the book of revelation where Muhammad (S) adds anything please?

Revelation 1:1, 9 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him … I John, YOUR brother and a sharer with YOU in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in company with Jesus, came to be in the isle that is called Pat′mos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus
Muhammad does not bear witness to Jesus or his father he denies them both! Jesus also mentions John by name, where is Muhammad mentioned? Also, John is accredited with writing the book of Revelation, the Quran was added afterwards claiming to be the ‘final revelation’ from an angel who only Muhammad identified as Gabriel, yes Muhammad took it upon himself and added his uninspired words.

John also bears witness that Jesus is the ‘son of God’ something Muhammad, the Quran and Islam denies and speaks against.

I'll wait for the answers to the question I've asked . . . . . . .

Who identified this angel?
Who called him to be God’s messenger?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call “miraculous” event?

Edited by Kish - 25 January 2012 at 12:59pm]]> Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:56:45 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161646#161646 God’s written instructions for life. : &lt;... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161620#161620 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 24 January 2012 at 7:14pm

<>

Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by truthnowcomes

Mr.Kish, as much you are running from the truth I will still present it … in His finalmessage which is a universal message for all mankind he will send a “seal book”to an illiterate prophet in the future that is why he didn’t preserve theprevious revelation. He knew the scribes were dishonest:


Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of the One seated upon the throne a scrollwritten within and on the reverse side, sealed tight with seven seals

Rev 22: 10 He also tells me: “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of thisscroll, for the appointed time is near

Muhammad plagiarized the 'scriptures' again! Because in the last book of theBible, the Final Revelation was already a “sealed” book, which came 600 yearsbefore Muhammad and your Quran. The last Apostle, John in about 96 C.E. hadalready unsealed it and said in his final Revelation in chapter22 verse 18 Ifanyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues thatare written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the wordsof the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the treesof life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in thisscroll.

That means the book of Muhammad, a book that came 600 or more years AFTER thewritings of Revelation.

Muhammad came to late, if you failed to see and recognize this, my hands aretruly, truly clean of guilt. It is up to you to seek forgiveness through thelord Jesus Christ because the Kingdom of the heavens has drawnnear.   

 

Hi Mr. Kish, your quotations are notrelevant to Isaiah29. I gave “FACT” that, it fits the advent of Muhammad (S) inthe cave and you didn’t even try to refute me, rather, you quote revelation 5:1and 22:10 that has nothing to do with Isaiah 29. And for you information, thebook of revelation is not a seal book; nowhere it says it is a “seal book”;verse22:10 indicates that the book of revelation is “a word of prophesy” whichwas to informing the world of things which must shortly come to pass and not toseal it:

 

Blessed is he thatreadeth, and they that hear the “wordsof this prophecy”, and keepthose things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.” (Rev.1:3). God give unto him to show unto hisservants things which must shortly cometo pass…” (Rev.1:1)

 

Now, in the book ofrevelation, one of the prophesy was “a book that is seal on the back side”with seven seals:

Rev.5:1 “… A Book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.”

In other words, the book of revelationis informing us of another book that is seal on the “back side” with “seven seals” and as you read on in Ch5 to7 youwill recognize that, that book was a book of “EVENTS” to take place as theangel opens one seal after the other great event take place, example:

 

1) …whenthe lamb opened one of the seal…behold a white horse: he that sat on him had a bow; anda crown was given unto him: andhe went forth conquering, and to conquer. Rev.6:1-2

  The advent ofMuhammad (S) and it ties into Habbakkuk3:

 

Ø  “…And the Holy One from Mount Paran. Se-lah. His Glory covered the heaven, and the earthwas full of his praise…When he cometh up unto the people, he will invade them with his troops.” (Habk.3:3-16)

 

Who is the Holy One from Mt. Param? The descendant of Ishmael’s:

 

Ø  “And he [Ishmael (S)] dwelt in the wilderness of Paran” Genesis 21:21

 (Brackets added)

2)    And when he had open the forth seal…a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him, And power was given unto him over the forthpart of the earth (New world: the west),to kill with sword, and with hunger, andwith death, and with the beasts of the earth. Rev.6:7-8

The death the west will bring to theworld.

 

Originally posted by Kish


Muhammad plagiarized the 'scriptures' again! Because in the last book of theBible, the Final Revelation was already a “sealed” book, which came 600 yearsbefore Muhammad and your Quran. The last Apostle, John in about 96 C.E. hadalready unsealed it and said in his final Revelation in chapter22 verse 18 Ifanyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues thatare written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the wordsof the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the treesof life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in thisscroll.

That means the book of Muhammad, a book that came 600 or more years AFTER thewritings of Revelation.

Muhammad came to late, if you failed to see and recognize this, my hands aretruly, truly clean of guilt. It is up to you to seek forgiveness through thelord Jesus Christ because the Kingdom of the heavens has drawnnear.   

I can see how you are soempty! What the adding anything to the book of revelation (a book of prophesy)has to do with Muhammad’s (S) Book? Can you show me in the book of revelationwhere Muhammad (S) adds anything please?

 

In fact the book of revelation which isthe book of prophesies, in Ch. 10 and14 mentioned of a coming of another “bookthat is seal” which John did not wrote and was yet to come at the time thevision to John.

Ø  And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven. 2-And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set hisright foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth. 3-And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when hehad cried, seven thunders uttered theirvoice. 4-And when the seventhunders had uttered their voices, “Iwas about to write”: and I heard a voice from haven saying unto, seal up those things which the seventhunder utters, “and write them not”. Rev.10:1-4

The angelbrought the little book and John was order “notto write down the message in that book,” because the time was not right. “So it is not the bible,” because thebible is a “written book” and it(the bible) is telling us about “anotherbook.” Which book is that? 

Further asyou read in Verse 7 it says:

Ø  “But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, whenhe shall begin to sound: the mystery of God should finish as hedeclared to his servants the prophets. (Rev.10:7)

 Inthe days when this little book shall reveal all the mystery (all the truth) ofGod will finish (revealed).The book was never written according to the voicefrom Heaven: “seal up those things…and write them not.”

Now, “Beginto sound” mean “revealing” In the days when this little book shall reveal “all the mystery” (That is “all thetruth”) of God will finish (revealed, no more mystery) as he declared to hisservants the prophets.

 Andin 10:4 it says: “John was about to write…” So when this Book will reveal “some one” will have to be there to “write the message down.”

11-And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy againbefore many people, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Rev.10:11)

  Why prophesy again? Because he had alreadywent, so he has to go back again to inform them about the coming of theuniversal book that he did not wrote.

 Allahhas revealed in the Quran:

Ø  “We have not sent thee but as a (universalmessenger) to all mankind…but most of mankind knew not”. (Q.34:28)                                        

 

 Comingof the universal book

  REVELATION 14:

It ismentioned in the bible Rev.14:6-7:

Ø  “And I sawanother angel fly in the midst of haven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,and to every nation, and kindred, andtongue, and people. Saying with aloud voice, Fear God, and give glory tohim; for the hour of his judgment iscome.” Rev.14:6-7

Note: Theword “gospel” is Good News”; in other words the angel was bringing the“everlasting Good News”. The everlasting Good News was yet to come; Jesus (S)gospel (Good News) could not be for all time. Jesus (S) already on earth with hisgospel (Good News), he could not be the anotherangel with everlasting Good News. Theeverlasting Good News is the little book that mentioned in Revelation10:1-11 another angel with a little bookwhich John did not wrote but is yet to come; and the coming of it isclearly stated in Revelation 14:7

Ø  “…another angel fly in the midstof haven, having the everlastingGood News…” Rev. 14:7

That means,the everlasting Good News have to come from Heaven having an angel bringing it.It says in verse 7;

Ø  “Fear God and Give Glory to him; for the hour of hisjudgment is come!”

Not the Dayof Judgment, because the angel was bringing what? The “everlasting Good News” and that was the Criterion: the standardway of judgment between right and wrong. In other words, coming of theeverlasting Good News then Judgment will come and the Comforter will use it toreprove the world.

This iswhat mentioned in the Qur’an:

Ø  “Blessed is He whosent down the Criterion (of judgment between right and wrong) to His Servant, thatit may be an admonition to all creatures.” (Q.25:1)

Ø  “This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other thanAllah. on the contrary it is a confirmationof (revelations) that went beforeit, and a fuller explanation ofthe Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.”(Qur.10:37)

Ø  Say, the Holy Spirit (Angel Gabriel) has brought therevelation from thy Lord in truth, in order to strengthen those who believe,and as a guide, and Glad Tidings to Muslims. (Q.16:102)

Ø  A book, whereof the verses are explained in detail-A Qur’an in Arabic, for people who understand-Giving Good News and admonition:yet most of them turn away, and so they hear not. (Q.41:3-4)

Ø  Without doubt it is (announced) in the reveled books(Torah, Gospel) of former people. (Q.26:196)

Ø  And this is a book which We have sent down, bringingblessing and conforming (the revelation) which came before it. (Q.6:92)

Ø  …it is no less than aMessage for all creatures (mankind and jinn). (Q.12:104)

Ø  …so fear Allahand obey me. (Q.3:50)

Ø  ye who believe! FearAllah as He should fear, and die not except in a state of Islam. (Q.3:102)

Ø  And glorify Himmorning and evening. (Q.33:42)

Ø  Thus have Werevealed it (the Qur’an) to be a judgment of authority in Arabic(Q.13:37)

  What Revelation 14-7 says?

Ø  “Fear God and Give Glory to him; for thehour of his judgment is come!”

Not the Dayof Judgment, the Criterion: the standard way of judgment between right andwrong. After the coming of the universal Rev.14:12say:

“…here are they that keep the commandmentof God, and the faith of Jesus…”  

Thatconforms that the “Everlasting Good News” is the commandment of God, theCriterion (of judgment between right and wrong), and the true teaching ofJesus (S) which is his faith.

Do you thing Muhammad (S) studiesthe book of revelation and then dictates to his followers to write down allthose quotes from the Qur’an above?

 

TNC

 

]]> Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:14:37 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161620#161620 God’s written instructions for life. : Kish,too bad that your &#034;sealed... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161611#161611 Author: honeto
Subject: 21316
Posted: 24 January 2012 at 3:25pm

Kish,
too bad that your "sealed book" is anything but sealed, it got ripped open so much by self apponted opostles that it has become a mare collection of versions and trasnlations (without the original) that is proved to be only inconsistent within itself.
Hasan
]]> Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:25:40 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161611#161611 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by truthnowcomesWhile... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161609#161609 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 24 January 2012 at 11:13am

Originally posted by truthnowcomes

While he was there an angel, later identified as Gabriel,


TNC, who identified this angel, tell me if you could?
Who called him to be God’s messenger, tell me if you could?
Who besides Muhammad eye-witnessed, heard or confirmed this so call “miraculous” event tell me if you could?

If all three of these answers are Muhammad, then Muslims have been miss-lead since day one by the one and only self-proclaimed eye witness, Muhammad!

Originally posted by truthnowcomes

Just like the cave event of Muhammad (S): He was ask to “READ” and he replied: “I AM NOT LEARNED”.


But yet the first revelation was "Read," and included the statement "God teaches by means of the pen" (96:1-4 He Who taught (the use of) the pen,), and the second revelation was "The Pen" (68:1). The only function of the pen is to write TNC.

What makes you so sure that it was Gabriel, didn't he know Muhammad was illiterate, why ask him to read or write if he could not? Sounds pretty fishy to me.....

Truth NOW has come! Read for yourself!

Psalm 31: 5 Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O Jehovah God of truth.

KISH





Edited by Kish - 24 January 2012 at 11:42am]]> Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:13:41 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161609#161609 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by truthnowcomesMr.... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161597#161597 Author: Kish
Subject: 21316
Posted: 23 January 2012 at 2:23pm

Originally posted by truthnowcomes

Mr. Kish, as much you are running from the truth I will still present it … in His final message which is a universal message for all mankind he will send a “seal book” to an illiterate prophet in the future that is why he didn’t preserve the previous revelation. He knew the scribes were dishonest:


Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of the One seated upon the throne a scroll written within and on the reverse side, sealed tight with seven seals

Rev 22: 10 He also tells me: “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, for the appointed time is near

Muhammad plagiarized the 'scriptures' again! Because in the last book of the Bible, the Final Revelation was already a “sealed” book, which came 600 years before Muhammad and your Quran. The last Apostle, John in about 96 C.E. had already unsealed it and said in his final Revelation in chapter22 verse 18 If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll.

That means the book of Muhammad, a book that came 600 or more years AFTER the writings of Revelation.

Muhammad came to late, if you failed to see and recognize this, my hands are truly, truly clean of guilt. It is up to you to seek forgiveness through the lord Jesus Christ because the Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.   


Edited by Kish - 23 January 2012 at 2:25pm]]> Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:23:57 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161597#161597 God’s written instructions for life. : Originally posted by Kish Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21316&PID=161589#161589 Author: truthnowcome
Subject: 21316
Posted: 22 January 2012 at 11:04pm

Originally posted by Kish


Originally posted by islamispeace

Despite all the corruptions, some truth has managed to survive. . . Obviously, God didn't say this, but the men who corrupted His word for their own reasons did!


So, Allah now allows truth and lies to survive together in the holy Quran. Why not since he allowed it before why not allow it again and then again and then again, as you say of course? But, what changed, your god is now able to guard his word from men but could not before? Did Allah get stronger over time; is that what you are saying? What if it gets lost and corrupted again and if not how can you be so sure that it won’t? Maybe he changed his mind again and is using The Bahā’ī Faith—Seeking World Unity since he made no promises to guard his written word.
Isse, do you really depend on a god that is wishy washy and who cannot keep his promise and protect his word by guarding over it at all times?

Can you even answer those questions above for me?

<>

Mr. Kish, as muchyou are running from the truth I will still present it.

Now, I would just like to intercede here:The reason for that is Allah (S) the God of Abraham (S) has a plan; He knew there would be people like you to question his message. The plan is, in His final message which is a universal message for all mankind he willsend a “seal book” to an illiterateprophet in the future that is why he didn’t preserve the previous revelation.He knew the scribes were dishonest:

The evidence in your own book!

10 For upon YOU menJehovah has poured a spirit of deep sleep; and he closes YOUR eyes, the prophets,and he has covered even YOUR heads, the visionaries. 11 Andfor YOU men the vision of everything becomes like the words of the book that has been sealed up,which they give to someone knowing the writing, saying: “Read this out loud,please,” and he has to say: “I am unable, for it is sealed up”; 12and thebook must be given to someone that does not know writing, [somebody] saying: “Read this out loud, please,” and he has to say: “Ido not know writing at all.”

13 And Jehovah says: (this is the reason:) “For the reason thatthis people have come near with their mouth, and they have glorified me merelywith their lips, and they have removed their heart itself far away from me, and their feartoward me becomes men’s commandment that is being taught, (MEN’S COMMANDMENT ADDED TO THE SCRIPTURES) 14 therefore here Iam, the One that will act wonderfully again with this people, in a wonderfulmanner and with something wonderful; and the wisdom of their wise men mustperish, and the very understanding of their discreet men will conceal itself.”(Isiah29: 10-14)

…And thebook is delivered to him thatis not learned, saying, read this I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. (GREEK: