IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum This is an XML content feed of; IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Islam for non-Muslims : Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? Thu, 23 May 2013 15:58:04 +0000 Mon, 04 Mar 2013 23:23:19 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 8.04 360 www.IslamiCity.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=18278 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_images/ICForum_Logo.gif http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? : Originally posted by Webber Originally... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=174696#174696 Author: Chrysalis
Subject: 18278
Posted: 04 March 2013 at 11:23pm

Originally posted by Webber

Originally posted by Chrysalis

Do you know what a Jizya is? It is a word that refers to Tax. Both Non-Muslims and Muslims need to pay taxes to their government. The Jizya Tax basically excuses the non-muslims from having to fight in the Muslim Military, and ensures that their rights are protected by the ruling Muslim government.

The Muslim civilians pay Zakat, Sadaqah, Ushr, and other sorts of religiously determined ''taxes'' (although they are not exactly like taxes, more a religious obligation) which non-muslims are excused from. Non-Muslims need not even be part of the muslim military because may not want to fight nations that belong to their faith.

 
Thanks for the explanation. That makes more sense. From what I understood previously it sounded more like a non-Muslim persecution tax.


Yup. Also, from what I have read, according to Imam Abu Hanifah (who is one of the greatest muslim scholars of Islam) it was only applicable to able-bodied,  on-muslim males who were fit for military service. Women, Children, Poor, Monks, Hermits, slaves and elderly were exempted from the Jizya. It was a military compensation (or defense tax) for non-muslims who did not want to fight in the muslim army.

]]> Mon, 04 Mar 2013 23:23:19 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=174696#174696 Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? : Originally posted by ChrysalisDo... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=174335#174335 Author: Webber
Subject: 18278
Posted: 17 February 2013 at 12:20pm

Originally posted by Chrysalis

Do you know what a Jizya is? It is a word that refers to Tax. Both Non-Muslims and Muslims need to pay taxes to their government. The Jizya Tax basically excuses the non-muslims from having to fight in the Muslim Military, and ensures that their rights are protected by the ruling Muslim government.

The Muslim civilians pay Zakat, Sadaqah, Ushr, and other sorts of religiously determined ''taxes'' (although they are not exactly like taxes, more a religious obligation) which non-muslims are excused from. Non-Muslims need not even be part of the muslim military because may not want to fight nations that belong to their faith.

 
Thanks for the explanation. That makes more sense. From what I understood previously it sounded more like a non-Muslim persecution tax.
]]> Sun, 17 Feb 2013 12:20:04 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=174335#174335 Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? : Originally posted by CyrusgamesIf... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=171277#171277 Author: honeto
Subject: 18278
Posted: 07 December 2012 at 6:01pm

Originally posted by Cyrusgames

If that is true (which I thank God that it is) what about Islamic conquests in the centuries after the founding of Islam? 


Cyrus,
I thought your question was, if Muslims don't force others with violence to convert to Islam.
And the answer to that is NO.
Now you are asking a different question, but are you confusing it with your first.
Now you are asking about Islamic conquests. Conquest and Conversion are different things, I hope you realize that.
Muslim conquests were to establish God's law on the earth, to provide justice, security and equality for all, and to spread knowledge and guidance, not to force people in to becoming Muslims.
Hasan]]> Fri, 07 Dec 2012 18:01:36 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=171277#171277 Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? : Originally posted by tmac26You... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=171212#171212 Author: Chrysalis
Subject: 18278
Posted: 06 December 2012 at 3:51am

Originally posted by tmac26

You cant have no compultion in religion and force non muslims to pay the jizya. The laws in the quran are not equal with the hadiths. So for al men for all time doesnt just mean history. Is there a aya that abrogates the fight againt non beleivers?


Do you know what a Jizya is? It is a word that refers to Tax. Both Non-Muslims and Muslims need to pay taxes to their government. The Jizya Tax basically excuses the non-muslims from having to fight in the Muslim Military, and ensures that their rights are protected by the ruling Muslim government.

The Muslim civilians pay Zakat, Sadaqah, Ushr, and other sorts of religiously determined ''taxes'' (although they are not exactly like taxes, more a religious obligation) which non-muslims are excused from. Non-Muslims need not even be part of the muslim military because may not want to fight nations that belong to their faith.

]]> Thu, 06 Dec 2012 03:51:21 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=171212#171212 Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? : Ok which aya came first theres... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=170927#170927 Author: tmac26
Subject: 18278
Posted: 30 November 2012 at 3:54pm

Ok which aya came first theres no compultion in religion or fight those who beleive not in allah or the last day until they pay the jizya and feel subued. Does the latter not abrigate the first. As islam is for all people for all time why do muslims say... Well in the time of muhammad... Or in history. You cant have no compultion in religion and force non muslims to pay the jizya. The laws in the quran are not equal with the hadiths. So for al men for all time doesnt just mean history. Is there a aya that abrogates the fight againt non beleivers?

Edited by tmac26 - 30 November 2012 at 3:56pm]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:54:40 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=170927#170927 Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? : Originally posted by CyrusgamesIf... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=151191#151191 Author: Chrysalis
Subject: 18278
Posted: 21 February 2011 at 9:12pm

Originally posted by Cyrusgames

If that is true (which I thank God that it is) what about Islamic conquests in the centuries after the founding of Islam? 


Hi, like Matt Browne pointed out correctly - every nation used to fight wars and capture lands in the older days. Including Christians, Hindus, Persians, Romans, etc. It had more to do with 'survival of the fittest' and 'capture or be captured' rather than forcing people to submit to religion.

You will find that compared to their non-Muslim conquerors - the Muslim conquerors allowed freedom of religion in thier lands.  That is why to this day you shall find Coptic Christians (who have been christian since centuries) in Egypt - which is surrounded by, and was mostly a Muslim controlled region. Or you will find Hindus dominating the Sub-Continent - which again, has been under Muslim rule for centuries. Also, did you know for example, that during the Crusades, the only safe-haven for persecuted Jews were Muslim lands? Jews flocked to the Ottoman states because they were treated as 1st class citizens and their educational/ scientific contributions were appreciated. I would suggest you google Jews under Ottoman rule - to read for yourself.

The above examples were to illustrate my point that Muslim conquests were not to force the world to submit to Allah - they were the norm of the day. There is no compulsion in religion like I quoted from the Qur'an before. Because had that been the case, you would not find century-old non-muslim communities established in these areas. Unlike what happened to Muslims  in Bosnia, Central-Asia, Spain. They were forced to convert to Christianity, and their identities were forcibly erased.

If Muslims wanted to/ believed in forcing others into accepting their values & ideologies they would be attacking nations today. Yet in today's modern times when warfare is abhorred, it is non-Muslims enforcing their ideologies (Operation Freedom Iraq, Afghanistan) by attacking sovereign nations. Actions speak louder than words right?


]]> Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:12:54 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=151191#151191 Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? : The interpretation of holy books... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=151164#151164 Author: Matt Browne
Subject: 18278
Posted: 21 February 2011 at 7:25am

The interpretation of holy books do change over time. This applies to both the Quran and the Bible. During the early years of Christianity Romans used violence to make the non-believing world north of Rome submit to Christianity and stop worshiping Wotan, a West Germanic god corresponding to Norse Odin.

We have to be very grateful that religions evolve over time.

The biggest change to Christianity was caused by the Age of Enlightenment.

]]> Mon, 21 Feb 2011 07:25:57 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=151164#151164 Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? : If that is true (which I thank... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=150965#150965 Author: Cyrusgames
Subject: 18278
Posted: 13 February 2011 at 10:56am

If that is true (which I thank God that it is) what about Islamic conquests in the centuries after the founding of Islam? 
]]> Sun, 13 Feb 2011 10:56:45 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=150965#150965 Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? : Originally posted by CyrusgamesDo... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=150949#150949 Author: Chrysalis
Subject: 18278
Posted: 12 February 2011 at 2:30am

Originally posted by Cyrusgames

Do muslims believe that it is right to use violence to make the non-believing world submit to Allah?



No we don't.

2:256 "There is no compulsionin religion"... (Qur'an)







Edited by Chrysalis - 12 February 2011 at 2:31am]]> Sat, 12 Feb 2011 02:30:56 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=150949#150949 Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? : No. We don't. http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=150948#150948 Author: semar
Subject: 18278
Posted: 12 February 2011 at 2:02am

No. We don't.]]> Sat, 12 Feb 2011 02:02:09 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=150948#150948 Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah? : Do muslims believe that it is... http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=150937#150937 Author: Cyrusgames
Subject: 18278
Posted: 11 February 2011 at 6:37pm

Do muslims believe that it is right to use violence to make the non-believing world submit to Allah?

]]> Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:37:03 +0000 http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278&PID=150937#150937